What light fixture would you choose?

[Joe0813]

gen 4 radion pros

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by Joe0813

gen 4 radion pros

I love this hobby but there is a limit. These are the most expensive high end lights on the market. I suppose if I was single and had no responsibilities then this would be ok to do. Well ... that’s not the case for me.

I see no need to spend so much when I can get a similar outcome from the reefbreeders v2 48” for a fraction of the cost of gen 4 radions.

[Joe0813]

Originally Posted by AlexR

I love this hobby but there is a limit. These are the most expensive high end lights on the market. I suppose if I was single and had no responsibilities then this would be ok to do. Well ... that’s not the case for me.

I see no need to spend so much when I can get a similar outcome from the reefbreeders v2 48” for a fraction of the cost of gen 4 radions.

I've always gone by the "you get what you pay for." I love mine

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by Joe0813

I've always gone by the "you get what you pay for." I love mine

I think the radion gen 4s are awesome. But I have a budget. I’ve just about fully decided on the reefbreeders. My Chinese puck lights kind of suck.
I’m not sure about the par readings since I don’t have a meter but by eye it looks strong enough.
Yes the shadowing is an issue. But I don’t have many corals to be effected by that yet.

The heat from the puck lights are almost so strong where I will require a chiller. And I really don’t like the color from them. And the fan noise is really annoying.

So it’s either stick with my current lights and get a 1/2hp chiller or get the reefbreeders light and don’t get a chiller (for now).

[Joe0813]

Originally Posted by AlexR

I think the radion gen 4s are awesome. But I have a budget. I’ve just about fully decided on the reefbreeders. My Chinese puck lights kind of suck.
I’m not sure about the par readings since I don’t have a meter but by eye it looks strong enough.
Yes the shadowing is an issue. But I don’t have many corals to be effected by that yet.

The heat from the puck lights are almost so strong where I will require a chiller. And I really don’t like the color from them. And the fan noise is really annoying.

So it’s either stick with my current lights and get a 1/2hp chiller or get the reefbreeders light and don’t get a chiller (for now).

What about a hybrid T5 fixture?

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by Joe0813

What about a hybrid T5 fixture?

Do you have any suggestions?

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by AlexR

I love this hobby but there is a limit. These are the most expensive high end lights on the market. I suppose if I was single and had no responsibilities then this would be ok to do. Well ... that’s not the case for me.

I see no need to spend so much when I can get a similar outcome from the reefbreeders v2 48” for a fraction of the cost of gen 4 radions.

Actually, Radions are nowhere near the most expensive lights on the market. And the ReefBreeders lights are actually chinese-made. Nevertheless, the principal difference between these "black box" lights and something like a Radion with a diffuser is spectrum diffusion. Many call it the "disco effect", but it's caused by having different point sources for the different spectra with a good bit of distance between them.

If you look carefully at sand in the tank picture on Reefbreeder's page, you can see what this will look like. If that doesn't bother you, you will indeed save a few hundred with the Reefbreeders and similar black-box lights. Overall, many reefers seem to really hate this effect, and many could care less. But it's good to know ahead of time before dropping $700 on a fixture.

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Actually, Radions are nowhere near the most expensive lights on the market. And the ReefBreeders lights are actually chinese-made. Nevertheless, the principal difference between these "black box" lights and something like a Radion with a diffuser is spectrum diffusion. Many call it the "disco effect", but it's caused by having different point sources for the different spectra with a good bit of distance between them.



If you look carefully at sand in the tank picture on Reefbreeder's page, you can see what this will look like. If that doesn't bother you, you will indeed save a few hundred with the Reefbreeders and similar black-box lights. Overall, many reefers seem to really hate this effect, and many could care less. But it's good to know ahead of time before dropping $700 on a fixture.

Really? I could t find any more expensive. That’s considering I would need 3 of them over my tank.

I’m definitely open to other suggestions, but needs to be within my budget with is under 1k.


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[dkeller_nc]

Personally, and for a tank that big and that budget, I would go T5HO. That will get you a really nice ATI fixture (either 6 bulb or 8 bulb), and still have $$ leftover for bulbs. And T5HO is bulletproof, just plug it in and grow coral, no shadowing, no spectrum adjustment guessing, no intensity adjustment guessing with a PAR meter, and no disco effect.

If your choice is LED, then unfortunately I think you're going to be stuck with the disco effect for that budget. If that doesn't bother you or you're willing to ignore it for the $$$ savings, then the chinese black box LED units make sense. Just a rough guess, but I think you'd have to raise your budget to around $2k if you want non-disco-effect LED lighting for full-tank coverage. For example, 4 Kessil A360X ($1800 + mounts), 4 Radion XR15W G4s ($1700 + mounts and diffusers), 2 Kessil AP700s ($1600 plus hanging kit), etc...

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Personally, and for a tank that big and that budget, I would go T5HO. That will get you a really nice ATI fixture (either 6 bulb or 8 bulb), and still have $$ leftover for bulbs. And T5HO is bulletproof, just plug it in and grow coral, no shadowing, no spectrum adjustment guessing, no intensity adjustment guessing with a PAR meter, and no disco effect.



If your choice is LED, then unfortunately I think you're going to be stuck with the disco effect for that budget. If that doesn't bother you or you're willing to ignore it for the $$$ savings, then the chinese black box LED units make sense. Just a rough guess, but I think you'd have to raise your budget to around $2k if you want non-disco-effect LED lighting for full-tank coverage. For example, 4 Kessil A360X ($1800 + mounts), 4 Radion XR15W G4s ($1700 + mounts and diffusers), 2 Kessil AP700s ($1600 plus hanging kit), etc...

Here is a picture with my current lights on. The shadowing is pretty obvious. But as you can see the tank is currently empty of coral and will stay that way until I get everything worked out.

And it’s not a rush at all.

I think I would be ok with the disco light effect, as long as the corals look pretty and are healthy I don’t think I’ll even notice it.

[JTL]

I have been using the Reefbreeder's lights for a couple of years and have zero complaints. They look nice and have quality components, the fact they are made in China is of no concern to me. I could buy whatever I want and this turned out to be the best product for the money. They used to be a sponsor here but have moved their sponsorship elsewhere.

[Bpb]

After briefly scrolling the thread I may have missed it being mentioned, but quality of light fixture is neither perfectly linear with price, nor is it any indication of algae growth or lack thereof honestly. Changing over to any other reef capable light is unlikely to impact your algae growth really at all. There’s somewhat of a relationship of more light growing more algae faster, but even that is imperfect.

Many of the most nuisance type algae’s people are plagued with can grow and thrive in little more than ambient room light. Algae is more a result of rocks being nutrient vessels for algae to liberate phosphate from despite a zero test reading, and a lack of appropriate herbivores based on what algaes are present. Just wanted to throw that out there. Cost of fixture will have virtually zero impact on whether it dominates the tank or if your tank is without a spec.

But onto your question. If you want an all in one, mid priced unit capable of growing a mixed reef for your tank size, that uses quality diodes with solid construction and a decent warranty, the reef breeders photon v2+ is a winner. T5”s would work also if you got a 60” ati sunpower 6 bulb fixture. It would cost around the same as the reef breeders

You get what you pay for is only true about half the time. I’ve seen black boxes go 5 years before having problems, and kessils and radions go belly up in less than 2. I’ve personally got a pair of jebao first generation WP pumps from 2013 still running currently, and had vortech and tunze powerheads fail within a year. I’d take my $200 eheim AC pump any day over a $600 vortech return pump, simply because data indicates they simply last longer and are more reliable. The price tag of modern gear is more reflective of software cost and brand marketing than quality of the guts. The components that really
Matter all made in Asian and Indonesian countries anyway, even on the ultra expensive domestic brands.


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[AlexR]

Originally Posted by Bpb

After briefly scrolling the thread I may have missed it being mentioned, but quality of light fixture is neither perfectly linear with price, nor is it any indication of algae growth or lack thereof honestly. Changing over to any other reef capable light is unlikely to impact your algae growth really at all. There’s somewhat of a relationship of more light growing more algae faster, but even that is imperfect.

Many of the most nuisance type algae’s people are plagued with can grow and thrive in little more than ambient room light. Algae is more a result of rocks being nutrient vessels for algae to liberate phosphate from despite a zero test reading, and a lack of appropriate herbivores based on what algaes are present. Just wanted to throw that out there. Cost of fixture will have virtually zero impact on whether it dominates the tank or if your tank is without a spec.

But onto your question. If you want an all in one, mid priced unit capable of growing a mixed reef for your tank size, that uses quality diodes with solid construction and a decent warranty, the reef breeders photon v2+ is a winner. T5”s would work also if you got a 60” ati sunpower 6 bulb fixture. It would cost around the same as the reef breeders


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Thank you.

I’ve just added a cleanup crew and a few algae eating fish just a couple weeks ago. It was going years without any.

In just 2 weeks I already see a significant difference. I’m now also running a phosban reactor and a biopellet reactor. Which I just setup.

I’m going to wait this out for a while. I have had one fish death (blonde naso) and the rest of the fish are eating great and look like they are thriving. Some fish have been in for 3 weeks and the others at 2 weeks now.
The powder brown tang is picking at the algae and also eats nori off the lettuce clip. The Cora beauty is helping a ton with random algae on rocks.
I’m sure the 250+ snails, crabs and emeralds are doing their part at night.

Maybe in a couple months I’ll be ready to see what I should do about lighting. I will start with a few zoas to see how they react. Then move forward from there.

[Bpb]

Originally Posted by AlexR

Thank you.

I’ve just added a cleanup crew and a few algae eating fish just a couple weeks ago. It was going years without any.

In just 2 weeks I already see a significant difference. I’m now also running a phosban reactor and a biopellet reactor. Which I just setup.

I’m going to wait this out for a while. I have had one fish death (blonde naso) and the rest of the fish are eating great and look like they are thriving. Some fish have been in for 3 weeks and the others at 2 weeks now.
The powder brown tang is picking at the algae and also eats nori off the lettuce clip. The Cora beauty is helping a ton with random algae on rocks.
I’m sure the 250+ snails, crabs and emeralds are doing their part at night.

Maybe in a couple months I’ll be ready to see what I should do about lighting. I will start with a few zoas to see how they react. Then move forward from there.

If it’s bryopsis, just do a flucon treatment, but otherwise if you can get ahold of a couple common Florida pincushion urchins those will out work every crab, snail, and fish combined


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[AlexR]

Originally Posted by Bpb

If it’s bryopsis, just do a flucon treatment, but otherwise if you can get ahold of a couple common Florida pincushion urchins those will out work every crab, snail, and fish combined


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To be honest I’m not sure what this is. But it is ugly and covers all the coraline encrusted rock.
Here is a closeup pic where it’s worst.
I have some bubble algae mixed in there too.

Your right about the urchin. I need to look into getting one.

[AlexR]

So after everything was said and done.

I got an pincushion urchin. Which is alive and healthy for about a month now.

What really helped me get rid of algae was removing my GFO reactor... As of now my tank is almost completely algae free and corals have started opening up nicely.

And to top it off I now have 2 new Radion XR30W g4 pro’s on order. One should be in today. The other end of this week.
I also got the 60” rail and hanging kit.

Not sure if 2 will be sufficient. So for now I can supplement them with one or 2 of my current puck lights, until I can order a 3rd radion.

[AlexR]

I bit the bullet and got radion xr30w g4 pros...
I’m lucky my wife likes this hobby

[dkeller_nc]

Congrats, I suspect they will "wow" you, especially compared to the LED fixtures that don't do color mixing very well. Not sure whether you ordered the diffusers, but if not, I'd recommend them, especially to get better coverage. As I mentioned previously, Radions have enough power to absolutely nuke anything under them unless the tank is very, very deep - say on the order of 36".

That's both a disadvantage and an advantage. Newbs sometimes assume that more light is better, and cook their corals under high powered LED lights especially since they don't often have a PAR meter and can't adjust the lights to get something around 250 or so at the rock level in their tank. But, since you got the hanging kit, you can turn this to your advantage. If you review videos of the WWC tanks on the BRS site, Mike Paletta's new tank, or Sanjay's tanks, you'll notice that they have their lights mounted quite high up over the water. That gives you a much more even coverage without "hot spotting", and also blends the light from the various LED colors even better.

To give you some idea, I run Radion G3 Pros, and they are 18" above the water, and at their peak during the photoperiod they're running at about 65% overall intensity with 10% red, 20% green, 100% Blue/Royal Blue/Deep Blue, and 40% white. This yields about 250 PAR at about 14" below the water line at the rock level. The G4's are very slightly more powerful, but only just, so you should get similar numbers.

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Congrats, I suspect they will "wow" you, especially compared to the LED fixtures that don't do color mixing very well. Not sure whether you ordered the diffusers, but if not, I'd recommend them, especially to get better coverage. As I mentioned previously, Radions have enough power to absolutely nuke anything under them unless the tank is very, very deep - say on the order of 36".



That's both a disadvantage and an advantage. Newbs sometimes assume that more light is better, and cook their corals under high powered LED lights especially since they don't often have a PAR meter and can't adjust the lights to get something around 250 or so at the rock level in their tank. But, since you got the hanging kit, you can turn this to your advantage. If you review videos of the WWC tanks on the BRS site, Mike Paletta's new tank, or Sanjay's tanks, you'll notice that they have their lights mounted quite high up over the water. That gives you a much more even coverage without "hot spotting", and also blends the light from the various LED colors even better.



To give you some idea, I run Radion G3 Pros, and they are 18" above the water, and at their peak during the photoperiod they're running at about 65% overall intensity with 10% red, 20% green, 100% Blue/Royal Blue/Deep Blue, and 40% white. This yields about 250 PAR at about 14" below the water line at the rock level. The G4's are very slightly more powerful, but only just, so you should get similar numbers.

I got 2 of the lights. I probably need 3.

The chart they have online shows 8” above the tank. So you think I should go at least 18”?

Also what template do you like? I started with the bio lab one for sps. Although I do t have any sps yet. I mainly have zoas with some LPS. But plan on adding sps eventually.

So far I really love the lights. And the reeflink.
The effects are so cool and they do make my corals pop. But I’m just not sure how high and what the best settings are for my 20” deep tank.

[dkeller_nc]

Well, I'm thinking you've already see what happens if you raise them higher - you'll get more spread, and less hot-spotting directly underneath the fixture. The installations I mentioned had the lights a good 3 feet above the tank, though they also had quite a lot of them. It's a bit weird for Ecotech to publish the charts at 8" above the water, as when you use their tank-arm mount, the puck's 12" above the water.

I don't use Ecotech's reef link, so I'm afraid I'm not much help with profiles within the software. I use an Apex (on all my tanks) with the WXM module, which provides wireless control to the Radions and the Vortechs. Using the Neptune software, I set the lights as I noted in the post above. I suspect this is relatively close to the Coral Lab AB+ profile, which is mostly blue.

Since you've zoas and LPS, I wouldn't recommend running the lights at more than 40% for a while, then gradually increase them 5% per week until you reach the intensity you desire. Corals generally don't die from lack of light in a reef tank, but they do die quite rapidly if light-shocked.

[AlexR]

So far the biggest improvement I have gotten is when I shut down my GFO reactor. A few days after shutting it down my algae almost fully disappeared and my corals started opening up fully.
I was amazed!

My old lights were very strong so I’m not too worried about acclimating the light.

[bshow24]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

It's a bit weird for Ecotech to publish the charts at 8" above the water, as when you use their tank-arm mount, the puck's 12" above the water.

The RMS puts the lights (on average) 8-9 inches above the water, but it fully depends on each person's setup and where the water level is in their tank. All of my RMS have equaled 9 inches above water line. However, if you have the ability to go higher Alex, I'd do it. It'll help you get more bang for your buck since you currently only have 2 plus, as was mentioned, these things are strong and can definitely provide enough light for your softies and LPS at a low %. If you have access to a par meter, I'd suggest using it, makes life that much easier.

[AlexR]

Originally Posted by bshow24

The RMS puts the lights (on average) 8-9 inches above the water, but it fully depends on each person's setup and where the water level is in their tank. All of my RMS have equaled 9 inches above water line. However, if you have the ability to go higher Alex, I'd do it. It'll help you get more bang for your buck since you currently only have 2 plus, as was mentioned, these things are strong and can definitely provide enough light for your softies and LPS at a low %. If you have access to a par meter, I'd suggest using it, makes life that much easier.

I may eventually need to rent a par meter. Unfortunately I can’t find anyone local that has one I can use.

Yea I have 2 of the xr30w g4 pros with reeflink. Also I got the track for it and the ceiling wires mount kit.

I will see about going 20” above water. I suppose I can always adjust as needed. I really do need a PAR meter to get it right. I do plan on adding sps eventually (after I get a 3rd light).

I guess their website generator is not accurate?

[AlexR]

I found a neighbor willing to help me with a PAR meter.

He also has the same type of lights (but gen3). So he has good experience to share.

I’m feeling thankful.

[dkeller_nc]

Yeah, that'll be a big help, there's nothing like actually measuring the PAR. One of the issues with using online maps/calculators is that you're sometimes not entirely sure what the conditions are when the data was acquired - things like whether the water surface was strongly agitated as you'd expect in a reef tank, or if it was static like some of the tests that BRS has done on various fixtures.