RVANANO's 300 peninsula reef build - Page 6

moondoggy4 · 04/19/2014, 06:35 PM

Wow great build, I only got through the first page, I am going to need some time to go through it.

dcmartinpc · 04/19/2014, 08:13 PM

13 ply zero void Baltic birch is what you are looking for

But... I hate to be "that guy" but I would go back to the stand manufacturer and ask them to fix it. I'm sure that wasn't a cheap solution, and if they were building in camber, they should be able to properly calculate it.

Good luck!!

moondoggy4 · 04/19/2014, 08:32 PM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2402476 I am not sure if these will be the correct ballast for your application, but you can check it out.

moondoggy4 · 04/19/2014, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVANANO

I gathered up and cleaned all the stuff I have leftover from the 120. Not a whole lot but it's a start. I noticed the heaters look different. One is kind of white and the other clear. Would the white be an indication of it being faulty or is that just normal from a different model/production date?

MP40ES
Apex
Eheim Jager 200 & 250w
refractometer

I believe that the gray one is the better older model and the clear one is the cheaper newer version.

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 10:51 AM

The frame builder is trying to come up with some ideas but short of cutting it apart and re-welding, I am not sure what he can do. So then the best bet seems to be shimming the tank. I have been told shimming the tank itself is a big no no. So then I would assume that serious cabinet grade thin layer ply would be ideal but have been told that's also a no no on a plastic rimmed tank. I need to figure this out asap as the cabinet builder has already been paid and is just waiting on me to get it leveled out.

I am pretty unhappy about all this. And of course the place that sold me the tank closed so now I have no one to go to for expertise advice. I am seriously considering canning the whole project which is devastating considering our family has been waiting for this and I wasted thousands of dollars on something that I will probably only get pennies on the dollar in return.

leveldrummer · 04/21/2014, 11:06 AM

can the stand builder take a grinder to the inner edge and grind it down till the entire top is flat?

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 11:16 AM

Not a chance. 3" square tubing down a 6 ft run would never be level when tooling by hand. I am not entirely sure my previous theory was correct anyway. It does seem the calculated camber being incorrect is the issue. In theory, yes the builder should be able to fix it but that's easier said than done. And I don't have the funds to pay for another to be built right now.

SS_Sean · 04/21/2014, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVANANO

Not a chance. 3" square tubing down a 6 ft run would never be level when tooling by hand. I am not entirely sure my previous theory was correct anyway. It does seem the calculated camber being incorrect is the issue. In theory, yes the builder should be able to fix it but that's easier said than done. And I don't have the funds to pay for another to be built right now.

This is false... as a home fabricator, myself, and having been trained by a professional I can say you can sand steel just like you can wood. You just need the right tools to do the job, and level the stand. This is done all the time in the industry. You need to contact a professional fabricator, and have them come out and bid the job. I could make that stand perfectly level just using a pneumatic or electric blocking board, DA, or 6" grinder and flap wheel, a couple of levels, and a ton of patience. Just depends on what you have going. Call in the pro's and keep your hope up.

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 12:06 PM

Maybe so but if the guy who built the frame doesn't offer that, I cannot justify putting that much more money into the stand. Besides, since the frame has positive camber with a gap of .035 that closes to around .022 or so when filled, it would be hard to make it level with the tooling as you said without several trial fills etc. So the tank would need to come off the frame, be tooled, go back on, filled, checked, so on and so forth.

I am hoping to use marine grade 1" thick ply and shim b/t the frame and the ply. That would the most reasonable and cost effective solution IMO.

SS_Sean · 04/21/2014, 12:08 PM

Just saying there are options for you. You could even use body filler and build up the entire frame and sand it down flat as a board, which would fill in any high spots. Don't give up.

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 12:19 PM

Yeah the fabricator talked about making a form for the top and laying a few mm's of self leveling epoxy. But then again, that positive camber is screwing that up too b/c once loaded, the surface will change.

dcmartinpc · 04/21/2014, 02:50 PM

He might be on to something with the self leveling epoxy or even body filler.... IF it is applied and then the tank is immediately filled. This would press down on the epoxy/body filler and then let it cure, but it would have to be a slow set epoxy.

I am by no means a tank installer, but these are just my thoughts. I have installed a rimmed tank on a stand topped with plywood. It was 180 gallon. I didn't have any issues, but I used marine grade void-free plywood like yo are talking about. Marine grade plywood is usually made of a harder wood and it much less likely to crush.

Just my thoughts. Sorry about your luck! You are so close, it would be a shame to turn back now...

Don

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 03:38 PM

I just had a rough day and things were piling on top one after another. I have had a chance to sit back, relax and reflect for a bit. Today I was having flashbacks of all the times I remembered wishing I didn't have a tank. It's also kind of scary setting up a tank this large in a new house. It's hard to keep the faith sometimes when you don't have a nice finished tank to remind you how it's all worth it at the end of the day. It does help that the fabricator told me he will come up with a solution regardless.

johnike · 04/21/2014, 04:19 PM

Good deal, Brandon.
I'm kind of dreading my upcoming move, even though it's only across the room.
I was told my stand would be ready when I got to work tomorrow.

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 04:56 PM

Fingers crossed for you, John!!

johnike · 04/21/2014, 05:06 PM

Wanna come help?

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 05:12 PM

I am just stopping at total wine to grab some Bell's Two Hearted.

johnike · 04/21/2014, 05:14 PM

I'm enjoying a cold Bud and some lovely chocolate.

RVANANO · 04/21/2014, 05:22 PM

Quit trying to woo me!

Misled · 04/21/2014, 05:22 PM

Good luck to both you guys. I'm building mine outta wood.

RVANANO · 04/23/2014, 06:50 PM

Does anyone know if the marine grade ply should be left alone or if it's ok to be cleared? I was going to have the cabinet builder clear it just in case but I cannot find definitive information on whether traditional cabinet ply clear will do. I will see if the builder can check with his supplier just in case.

FloatingFish · 04/23/2014, 08:25 PM

I dont know if its ok in your application or not, but I think I would if I was going to do it. When I cleared my stand I used a marine grade polyurethane.

dcmartinpc · 04/23/2014, 08:27 PM

I coat my canopies with a marine spar urethane. It works great, it may not be necessary, but I can't see it hurting anything.

sirreal63 · 04/23/2014, 08:48 PM

The plywood needs to be covered. Marine grade plywood is not treated in any way against moisture, it will rot just like any plywood that is exposed to moisture.

KafudaFish · 04/24/2014, 10:36 AM

Man that stinks. Good luck to finding a solution to all of this.

04/19/2014, 08:13 PM	#127
dcmartinpc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Niles, MI Posts: 331	13 ply zero void Baltic birch is what you are looking for But... I hate to be "that guy" but I would go back to the stand manufacturer and ask them to fix it. I'm sure that wasn't a cheap solution, and if they were building in camber, they should be able to properly calculate it. Good luck!! __________________ I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: 225G 5x3x2, 2 x 400w Radium on Dual PFO HQI, 2-Blue+, 2-Actinic, 2 x MP40w ES, 2 x Maxspect Gyre and 60 Cube LPS, 6-Blue+, 2-Purple+, 2xMP40w ES. Common 150 Rubbermaid sump. All driven with an Apex.

04/21/2014, 10:51 AM	#130
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	The frame builder is trying to come up with some ideas but short of cutting it apart and re-welding, I am not sure what he can do. So then the best bet seems to be shimming the tank. I have been told shimming the tank itself is a big no no. So then I would assume that serious cabinet grade thin layer ply would be ideal but have been told that's also a no no on a plastic rimmed tank. I need to figure this out asap as the cabinet builder has already been paid and is just waiting on me to get it leveled out. I am pretty unhappy about all this. And of course the place that sold me the tank closed so now I have no one to go to for expertise advice. I am seriously considering canning the whole project which is devastating considering our family has been waiting for this and I wasted thousands of dollars on something that I will probably only get pennies on the dollar in return. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress Last edited by RVANANO; 04/21/2014 at 11:04 AM.

04/21/2014, 11:16 AM	#132
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Not a chance. 3" square tubing down a 6 ft run would never be level when tooling by hand. I am not entirely sure my previous theory was correct anyway. It does seem the calculated camber being incorrect is the issue. In theory, yes the builder should be able to fix it but that's easier said than done. And I don't have the funds to pay for another to be built right now. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 12:06 PM	#134
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Maybe so but if the guy who built the frame doesn't offer that, I cannot justify putting that much more money into the stand. Besides, since the frame has positive camber with a gap of .035 that closes to around .022 or so when filled, it would be hard to make it level with the tooling as you said without several trial fills etc. So the tank would need to come off the frame, be tooled, go back on, filled, checked, so on and so forth. I am hoping to use marine grade 1" thick ply and shim b/t the frame and the ply. That would the most reasonable and cost effective solution IMO. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 12:08 PM	#135
SS_Sean Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: OR Posts: 669	Just saying there are options for you. You could even use body filler and build up the entire frame and sand it down flat as a board, which would fill in any high spots. Don't give up. __________________ 170g DT + 300g sump/fuge + 60g algae tank = 530g system.

04/19/2014, 06:35 PM	#126
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	Wow great build, I only got through the first page, I am going to need some time to go through it.

04/19/2014, 08:32 PM	#128
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2402476 I am not sure if these will be the correct ballast for your application, but you can check it out.

04/21/2014, 11:06 AM	#131
leveldrummer Reefer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,831	can the stand builder take a grinder to the inner edge and grind it down till the entire top is flat?

04/21/2014, 12:19 PM	#136
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Yeah the fabricator talked about making a form for the top and laying a few mm's of self leveling epoxy. But then again, that positive camber is screwing that up too b/c once loaded, the surface will change. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 02:50 PM	#137
dcmartinpc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Niles, MI Posts: 331	He might be on to something with the self leveling epoxy or even body filler.... IF it is applied and then the tank is immediately filled. This would press down on the epoxy/body filler and then let it cure, but it would have to be a slow set epoxy. I am by no means a tank installer, but these are just my thoughts. I have installed a rimmed tank on a stand topped with plywood. It was 180 gallon. I didn't have any issues, but I used marine grade void-free plywood like yo are talking about. Marine grade plywood is usually made of a harder wood and it much less likely to crush. Just my thoughts. Sorry about your luck! You are so close, it would be a shame to turn back now... Don __________________ I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: 225G 5x3x2, 2 x 400w Radium on Dual PFO HQI, 2-Blue+, 2-Actinic, 2 x MP40w ES, 2 x Maxspect Gyre and 60 Cube LPS, 6-Blue+, 2-Purple+, 2xMP40w ES. Common 150 Rubbermaid sump. All driven with an Apex.

04/21/2014, 03:38 PM	#138
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	I just had a rough day and things were piling on top one after another. I have had a chance to sit back, relax and reflect for a bit. Today I was having flashbacks of all the times I remembered wishing I didn't have a tank. It's also kind of scary setting up a tank this large in a new house. It's hard to keep the faith sometimes when you don't have a nice finished tank to remind you how it's all worth it at the end of the day. It does help that the fabricator told me he will come up with a solution regardless. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 04:19 PM	#139
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	Good deal, Brandon. I'm kind of dreading my upcoming move, even though it's only across the room. I was told my stand would be ready when I got to work tomorrow.

04/21/2014, 04:56 PM	#140
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Fingers crossed for you, John!! __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 05:06 PM	#141
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	Wanna come help?

04/21/2014, 05:12 PM	#142
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	I am just stopping at total wine to grab some Bell's Two Hearted. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 05:14 PM	#143
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	I'm enjoying a cold Bud and some lovely chocolate.

04/21/2014, 05:22 PM	#144
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Quit trying to woo me! __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress

04/21/2014, 05:22 PM	#145
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Good luck to both you guys. I'm building mine outta wood. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

04/23/2014, 06:50 PM	#146
RVANANO SWAGON Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,404	Does anyone know if the marine grade ply should be left alone or if it's ok to be cleared? I was going to have the cabinet builder clear it just in case but I cannot find definitive information on whether traditional cabinet ply clear will do. I will see if the builder can check with his supplier just in case. __________________ Brandon "Your opinion is appreciated. Unless it's stupid" -Me Current Tank Info: "Nano" 300 peninsula reef in progress Last edited by RVANANO; 04/23/2014 at 07:09 PM.

04/23/2014, 08:25 PM	#147
FloatingFish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Odell, ILL. Posts: 540	I dont know if its ok in your application or not, but I think I would if I was going to do it. When I cleared my stand I used a marine grade polyurethane. __________________ . Current Tank Info: None

04/23/2014, 08:27 PM	#148
dcmartinpc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Niles, MI Posts: 331	I coat my canopies with a marine spar urethane. It works great, it may not be necessary, but I can't see it hurting anything. __________________ I glue animals to rocks... Current Tank Info: 225G 5x3x2, 2 x 400w Radium on Dual PFO HQI, 2-Blue+, 2-Actinic, 2 x MP40w ES, 2 x Maxspect Gyre and 60 Cube LPS, 6-Blue+, 2-Purple+, 2xMP40w ES. Common 150 Rubbermaid sump. All driven with an Apex.

04/23/2014, 08:48 PM	#149
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	The plywood needs to be covered. Marine grade plywood is not treated in any way against moisture, it will rot just like any plywood that is exposed to moisture. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

04/24/2014, 10:36 AM	#150
KafudaFish Cyprinius carpio Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,496	Man that stinks. Good luck to finding a solution to all of this.