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Unread 08/16/2017, 08:44 AM   #1151
codydemmel4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel View Post
I have not used Reef Actif one its own. So I cannot comment on it. I do not think there is any prerequisite that it should be used in conjunction action with Bacto-Balance. However, information I read suggests that it is a good idea to use trace elements with it. In the context of TM, I refer to A- and K+ elements. Reading between the lines Reef Actif (or biopolymers contained in the products) binds not only nutrients, but also trace elements. Biopolymers are then broken down (i.e. decomposed) by symbiotic bacteria living on corals and filter feeders. I am getting the feeling that Reef Actif is like a transport mechanism.
Thanks for the response! Also the video is awesome, love seeing how the corals polyps move with the flow

I do have some bottles on hand and it looks like you have not used them and I have not used them in awhile. Such as Flatworm Stop, Coral Booster and Acropower. Possibly I could use one of these along with the reef activ to try to achieve better growth going forward.


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Unread 08/16/2017, 09:17 AM   #1152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codydemmel4 View Post
Thanks for the response! Also the video is awesome, love seeing how the corals polyps move with the flow

I do have some bottles on hand and it looks like you have not used them and I have not used them in awhile. Such as Flatworm Stop, Coral Booster and Acropower. Possibly I could use one of these along with the reef activ to try to achieve better growth going forward.
Flatworm Stop will make your SPS tissue much thicker. I've been using it for its originar purpose (battling AEFW) and I won't discontinue its use even with no more flatworms to battle.


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Unread 08/16/2017, 09:52 AM   #1153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codydemmel4 View Post
Thanks for the response! Also the video is awesome, love seeing how the corals polyps move with the flow

I do have some bottles on hand and it looks like you have not used them and I have not used them in awhile. Such as Flatworm Stop, Coral Booster and Acropower. Possibly I could use one of these along with the reef activ to try to achieve better growth going forward.
You're welcome Cody.

I have never used any of the products you mentioned. I used to use an Amino Acid product, Salifert Coralline Amino Acids. I do not remember any observable benefit to my corals as a result of its use in my set up. Amino acids generally boost cyanobacteria. This is exactly what happened in my tank.

Based on my observations over the years, there are two types of products that triggered visible coral. First, I used KZ Cyanoclean and KZ ZEObak a few years ago. Both contain some form of bacteria/bacterial cultures. There was visible acceleration in coral growth during their use. I reported this at the time in this thread. Second, I use TM NP-Bacto-Balance and TM Reef Actif along with TM K+ and A- elements. I have recently compiled a few photo albums on my Facebook page, each of which shows the growth rates of some of my favourite Acros. Proof is in the pudding as "they" say.

You are probably familiar with my reefkeeping strategy. I run a high energy reef, by which I mean high nutrient input and output throughput, high temperatures to boost metabolism of all animals living in my tank, high-strong random flow to transport nutrients to corals and move their waste products away from them, and intense T5 lights with the correct spectrum, which is heavy on blue. Furthermore, presence of some nutrients, in particular phosphates, help with coral growth, providing that they are less than 0.1 mg/L.

Please let me know if your proposed plan benefits your corals.


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Unread 08/16/2017, 07:04 PM   #1154
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Thanks for detailed response, I greatly appreciate it.

I like the high energy way of things. I just need to make sure everything is stable in the alk/calc area before I do anything.

Can you link me to your facebook page? I think for now, I am going to continue what I am doing with feeding a ton and then I am planning on using TM Reef Activ starting next week.


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Unread 08/17/2017, 11:29 AM   #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codydemmel4 View Post
Thanks for detailed response, I greatly appreciate it.

I like the high energy way of things. I just need to make sure everything is stable in the alk/calc area before I do anything.

Can you link me to your facebook page? I think for now, I am going to continue what I am doing with feeding a ton and then I am planning on using TM Reef Activ starting next week.
I would start with a really low dose. Otherwise, you will get bacterial slime on your pumps heads and return pipes. Good luck with it.

I am getting some new sphere-shaped sponges that was not there before my dosing had begun.






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Unread 08/21/2017, 05:31 AM   #1156
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You may remember my aiptasia scrubber.





After the death of Mr E.T. the file fish, aiptasia started to reappear in my display tank. This was no surprise. So, I bought Mr E.T. Jr. the file fish. Sadly, as a young fish it probably never fancied aiptasia and went for the polyps of A. gomezi instead. I had to place it in sump with a view to take it back to my lfs. I kept feeding it separately. A few months passed, as the fish grew in the sump, the population of aiptasia increased in my display tank.

The problem slowly but surely got worse and worse. Eventually, I decided to do something about it. About two weeks ago, I contemplated a few options to deal with the impending crisis in my tank. I know for the fact that the only way to deal with this anemone is biological control. This is what years of experience in dealing with this menace has taught me. I decided to do an experiment with Mr E.T. Jr. and placed it in my overflow box where the aiptasia scrubber is situated. My hypothesis was that if I did not feed the fish, it would start to eat aiptasia sooner or later and would become a confirmed aiptasia terminator. Nothing happened for the first ten days. Then all of a sudden some gaps started to appear in the scrubber as shown below:







At this stage, I cannot confirm that Mr E.T. Jr is consuming aiptasia as I have not established a visual contact with him yet. However, it is reasonable to assume that he is responsible. Since the above photos were taken yesterday, the number of aiptasia has declined even further. I am delighted with the outcome so far. I will wait until the weir is completely clear from aiptasia. In the next stage of the experiment, I will release the fish into my display tank. My expectation is that it will go for aiptasia first (hopefully).

Watch this space.


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Unread 08/21/2017, 06:12 AM   #1157
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Mr. Bulent, you are a brave man to put a fish in a weir in order to clean it.

That fish will be trained as a pro for aiptasia removal!!


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Unread 08/21/2017, 06:23 AM   #1158
DiscusHeckel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janci View Post
Mr. Bulent, you are a brave man to put a fish in a weir in order to clean it.

That fish will be trained as a pro for aiptasia removal!!
Thanks for your comments on my bravery sir.

I admit that it was a risky endeavour to put a fish in a weir full of aiptasia as aiptasia can sting and paralyse fish on contact. However, I ensured that aiptasia withdrew their polyps first before putting the fish in. I did that by brushing my fingers against their polyps. I probably contributed to their sporulation in this process, hence the increase in their population in my display tank. I will be sad when the weir is cleared as aiptasia always consumed excess food and prevented it from going into the sump, but hey they broke the truce between us first. I hope I won't be the loser in the end.


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Unread 08/21/2017, 07:00 PM   #1159
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Earth to Mr. ET.. are you responsible??
Once he comes out of there, the aptasia will grow back, so don't worry, Bulent.
Hopefully, he will continue to eat aptasia once back in the display and not revert back to gomezie polyps..
When I had my aptasia infestation several years ago, the addition of 30 or so peppermint shrimps eradicated the problem.. But if i recall, you don't have access to peps where you are..


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Unread 08/21/2017, 07:04 PM   #1160
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I have a aiptasia problem now too but I dont think I can add a filefish now that I have a pair of blue throat triggers??

I am sure my wrasses will attack the pep shrimp is I add them


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Unread 08/21/2017, 07:23 PM   #1161
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Quote:
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I have a aiptasia problem now too but I dont think I can add a filefish now that I have a pair of blue throat triggers??

I am sure my wrasses will attack the pep shrimp is I add them
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefmutt View Post
Earth to Mr. ET.. are you responsible??
Once he comes out of there, the aptasia will grow back, so don't worry, Bulent.
Hopefully, he will continue to eat aptasia once back in the display and not revert back to gomezie polyps..
When I had my aptasia infestation several years ago, the addition of 30 or so peppermint shrimps eradicated the problem.. But if i recall, you don't have access to peps where you are..
I have access to peppermint shrimps, but I have a medium-size silver belly wrasse. I am sure it will eat them for breakfast.

I used to keep peppermint shrimps. They did not touch aiptasia unless I starved them. I also found that one of my peppermint shrimps attacked the polyps of some of my sps corals, Pocillapora damicornis in particular. I remember catching that shrimp from its whiskers with my index finger and thumb. I won't tell you what I did with it afterwards.


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Unread 08/22/2017, 06:10 AM   #1162
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I have recently bought a second-hand Deltec SC 1455 protein skimmer with a manual cleaning head. It was delivered this morning. I am very curious to find out if it will collect more skimmate than my current skimmer. I need to skim more efficiently as bacterial mulm that accumulates in return pipe has increased noticeably after the recent increases in dosing of TM Reef Actif.

I will prepare a stand for it to raise it off the bottom glass so that the water level inside the skimmer will be about 7-7.5 inches.




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Unread 08/22/2017, 09:38 AM   #1163
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The struggles we endure/overcome make us love this hobby in the end.As always interesting read.


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Unread 08/26/2017, 03:54 PM   #1164
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The struggles we endure/overcome make us love this hobby in the end.As always interesting read.
Quite right. If there were no struggles, I would probably get bored of this hobby. The amount of learning I have to do keeps my brain ticking and will hopefully prevent dementia at old age.

Anyway, I installed my new skimmer today. It seems to be running almost silently. It is much much quieter than Deltec 1350 despite having a bigger pump. It seems to be producing some skimmate, but not as much as the old one. I guess I will have to wait for a while until it "beds in".










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Unread 08/27/2017, 11:59 AM   #1165
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My second-hand Deltec SC 1455 has been running for just over 24 hours. It has collected much more skimmate than my previous Deltec SC 1350 skimmer would have collected within the same period. I am very impressed. The manual cleaner head must be helping with maintaining the efficiency of the skimmer. I turn the lid every few hours. This is strictly not necessary as twice a day is what is recommended, but I want to get into the right habit.

Skimmate production has been consistent so far. This is very encouraging. Following an advice received from a fellow reefer, I have restricted the air by turning the air valve to 1 o'clock position to decrease bubble sizes, thus increasing air/water ratio at the interface. This is to ensure that while the skimmer beds in, there will not be any flooding of the skimmer's collection cup.



PS. To find the right water level, I have had to read Andrew's tank thread to find this information and I did. Thanks for providing this information Andrew.


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Unread 08/27/2017, 12:38 PM   #1166
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That skimmer looks to be a beast. You're are twisting my arm to get my neck cleaner installed.

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I'm not saying let's get rid of all the stupid people.* I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

Current Tank Info: 150g DT plumbed to an 80g frag tank and 220g sump in the basement. ~6-MP40s ~ 12 ATI powered t5s ~ Reefbrites and Radions supplementing ~ Custom GEO Skimmer ~ GEO CA Reactor 6x24~ Iwaki 70 Return ~
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Unread 08/27/2017, 12:42 PM   #1167
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That skimmer looks to be a beast. You're are twisting my arm to get my neck cleaner installed.

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It pulls 600 L/H of air as opposed to 450 L/H, which Deltec SC 1350 pulls.

Pause to turn the lid.

Just done another cleaning of the neck.




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Unread 08/30/2017, 05:23 AM   #1168
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More on Tropic Marin Reef Actif

Hello everybody,

A number of you recently asked me specific questions about this product here on this forum and on my Facebook page. Your questions raised issues on the difference between NP-Bacto-Balance and Reef Actif, copper contained in Actif and Reef Actif's role in nutrient reduction. I promised that (hopefully) I would provide you with intellectually acceptable answers.

I approached Herr Hans-Werner Balling of Tropic Marin yesterday and asked him a number of questions and sought clarification on our understanding of Reef Actif. I also took the opportunity to state my own understanding of this product so as to verify it.

I have just received his reply. Having read it, I have realised how little I know about reef bacteria. This area clearly presents a new learning opportunity for me. Below is the full transcript of my conversation with Herr Balling. I hope you will find it as informative as I have:

My fellow reefers and I would like some clarification on the following points please:

  1. QUESTION: What is Reef Actif’s objective in a reef tank? Is it for nutrient reduction or to make nutrients more accessible to corals, symbiotic bacteria living on corals and filter feeders, or both? Or what? My understanding is that it is a very clever transport mechanism that changes the state of nutrients from unusable (i.e. inorganic) to useable (i.e. organic) by corals and filter feeders by allowing symbiotic bacteria to decompose bio-polymers which lock inorganic nutrients?

    ANSWER: Yes, you are completely right. Reef Actif binds nutrients and changes them from the inorganic state to the organic state in this way.

  2. QUESTION: Are symbiotic bacteria different from heterotrophic bacteria? If so, how?

    ANSWER: Symbiotic bacteria are living on and in corals and fish. A balanced consortium of symbiotc bacteria protects its host and makes additional nutrients accessible to it. This is the case in corals as well as in fish.

  3. QUESTION: What does Reef Actif offer that NP-Bacto-Balance doesn’t? NP-Bacto-Balance contains a carbon source.

    ANSWER: Reef Actif offers a choice of polymeric substances that are only accessible to specialized bacteria. There is a pronounced beneficial effect to corals and also fish that is visible in just a few days. We found them testing substances that might adsorb nutrients. NP-Bacto-Balance has oligomeric substances that are accessible to much more kinds of bacteria and which do not adsorb nutrients to their molecular structure.

  4. QUESTION: What are exactly natural marine bio-polymers and how do they differ from other organic carbon sources, such as vodka, vinegar, sugar? The confusion here is that in the translated version you stated "REEF ACTIF contains a carbon source in the form of the mentioned biopolymers. These, like most organic compounds, are mainly carbon.” Specifically, if bio-polymers are a carbon source, then are they consumed by only specific bacteria? Is that why you used the term symbiotic bacteria? Are symbiotic bacteria different than facultative heterotrophic bacteria (Question 2 above).

    ANSWER: Vodka, vinegar and sugar are monomeric or oligomeric substances which can and will feed many kinds of bacteria including detrimental ones. These substances are metabolized and oxidized by the bacteria rapidly which may cause bacterial blooms and oxygen depletion. For our liquid organic carbon additives like NP-Bacto-Balance we chose the substance that caused the least bacterial slime buildup and to which corals seemed to react best. Reef Actif is even more safe and more beneficial to corals and fish than NP-Bacto-Balance. It has a prebiotic effect which means it seems to feed mainly harmless and beneficial (=mutualistic, mutualism = a beneficial kind of symbiosis) bacteria.

  5. QUESTION: Some people find a contradiction in the translated version regarding copper. For example, “REEF ACTIF does not contain copper as an effective substance” and “As a biopolymer mixture of natural origin, it can contain traces of copper.” What is the difference between containing traces of copper and not containing copper as an effective substance?

    ANSWER: Some trace element additives that make the corals lighten up contain copper as an effective substance which means the copper contained causes a more or less severe bleaching of the corals. Because Reef Actif also lightens up the corals (you describe the effect below {*}) it was suspected that it might contain added copper as an effective ingredient but this is not the case. As natural substances the biopolymers may contain traces of copper but they are not responsible for the lightening effect. We ascribe the lightening effect to the adsorption of nutrients and the conversion of the nutrients to the organic state like described above.

  6. QUESTION: If we use NP-Bacto-Balance, K+ and A- elements as part of a nutrient reduction strategy and decide to use Reef Actif as well, is it a good idea to increase the amount of A- and K+ elements beyond the recommended levels as corals start to grow faster, which has been my experience.

    ANSWER: The K+ and A- Elements may be dosed to the double recommended dosage if the trace element demand is high. It is best to decide if the effect of the increased dosage is beneficial watching the corals. If you can´t see any beneficial effect of the increased dosage after one or two weeks it is better to stick with the normal dosage.

{*} After using Reef-Actif since 25th May 2017 in conjunction with NP-Bacto-Balance, A- and K+, I can clearly see subtle improvements on my corals and reef in general. Corals are now growing much faster, their colours look a little more pronounced (possibly because of zooxanthellae expulsion), sponge growth accelerated and aquarium glass cleaning frequency has dropped.



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Unread 08/30/2017, 08:12 AM   #1169
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Great questions Bulent! Thank you for taking the time to reach out to Hans. It clears up some misconceptions I have had.

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I'm not saying let's get rid of all the stupid people.* I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

Current Tank Info: 150g DT plumbed to an 80g frag tank and 220g sump in the basement. ~6-MP40s ~ 12 ATI powered t5s ~ Reefbrites and Radions supplementing ~ Custom GEO Skimmer ~ GEO CA Reactor 6x24~ Iwaki 70 Return ~
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Unread 08/30/2017, 10:33 AM   #1170
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Great questions Bulent! Thank you for taking the time to reach out to Hans. It clears up some misconceptions I have had.

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Thanks for sharing. A really informative and interesting read.

I followed not long after you with reef actif . I see the same affects, mainly growth and cleaner glass. I run 3ml of bactobalance daily, same k. Plus 1 lvl tsp of reef active every 3rd day.

My calc and alk demand has increased 20% over the first 4 weeks. Tbh I thought my test kits/doser was playing up as it had been stable for months prior to using actif. So it definitely increases coral growth !

The only thing I struggle with is po4 reduction. This was at 0.14 last week so put my rowaphos back online. Now at 0.006 and happy. Not sure if it's a reasonably new tank syndrome or feeding (5 cubes over 2 days with 15 fish in a 350L) issue. But do struggle with po4, no3 sits around 5 so happy with that.

Not sure if I'm being driven by figures as don't see any impact on coral growth or colour, but don't want it to run away.

Anyway as you love the product... wish it was cheaper though

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Unread 08/30/2017, 01:20 PM   #1171
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Originally Posted by woolleson View Post
Thanks for sharing. A really informative and interesting read.

I followed not long after you with reef actif . I see the same affects, mainly growth and cleaner glass. I run 3ml of bactobalance daily, same k. Plus 1 lvl tsp of reef active every 3rd day.

My calc and alk demand has increased 20% over the first 4 weeks. Tbh I thought my test kits/doser was playing up as it had been stable for months prior to using actif. So it definitely increases coral growth !

The only thing I struggle with is po4 reduction. This was at 0.14 last week so put my rowaphos back online. Now at 0.006 and happy. Not sure if it's a reasonably new tank syndrome or feeding (5 cubes over 2 days with 15 fish in a 350L) issue. But do struggle with po4, no3 sits around 5 so happy with that.

Not sure if I'm being driven by figures as don't see any impact on coral growth or colour, but don't want it to run away.

Anyway as you love the product... wish it was cheaper though

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Thanks for your feedback and providing an update.

Regarding phosphates, even though my measurable phosphate readings have remained more or less the same (refer to the second graph in this post) since I began my experiment on 25th May 2017. I increased feeding about a month ago and despite this, phosphates remained the same. For me, this means that my set up can now handle/process more nutrient import without any adverse affect on measurable phosphates. This must be a good thing as all animals living in my reef tank must benefit from increased feeding. In these days, I am only testing to record trends and establish correlation between dosing and its impact on nutrients. I stopped chasing numbers a long time ago.


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65G SPS Reef- ATI 8 X 39W PM; TM [Bacto-Balance A-; Reef Actif; Nitribiotic; Iodine]

Last edited by DiscusHeckel; 08/30/2017 at 01:43 PM.
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Unread 08/30/2017, 03:39 PM   #1172
DiscusHeckel
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Originally Posted by Pife View Post
Great questions Bulent! Thank you for taking the time to reach out to Hans. It clears up some misconceptions I have had.

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You're welcome Brandon. Knowledge grows when shared.


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65G SPS Reef- ATI 8 X 39W PM; TM [Bacto-Balance A-; Reef Actif; Nitribiotic; Iodine]
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Unread 08/30/2017, 03:52 PM   #1173
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Enjoy reading all the information provided. truly appreciate you posting your conversation above.


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Unread 08/30/2017, 04:43 PM   #1174
Wrangy
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Great read, thanks for posting that Bulent


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"you are welcome to your nem / flub tank because we need people like you to balance the sick ( sick in the head SPS OCD ) speaking for myself here!!"
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Unread 08/30/2017, 05:01 PM   #1175
DiscusHeckel
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Enjoy reading all the information provided. truly appreciate you posting your conversation above.
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Great read, thanks for posting that Bulent
You're both welcome.

I spent a lot of time sifting through information on this product posted by Herr Balling on a German forum. I used Google Translator for this purpose and posted this information on my Facebook page. There were only a few awkward English formulations, but one could still get the drift. Herr Balling kindly went through this text today and made some corrections. The corrected version has replaced the old version on my Facebook page. If there is sufficient interest, I will be happy to copy and paste that information here in my thread too.


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65G SPS Reef- ATI 8 X 39W PM; TM [Bacto-Balance A-; Reef Actif; Nitribiotic; Iodine]
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