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Unread 02/16/2018, 03:26 PM   #1
fishkeeprian
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Flow through GFO reactor

Hello set up my GFO reactor tonight because I've had a diatoms bloom in my new setup.

Does this look like it's tumbling enough or to much?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vz5njwjss6...93140.mp4?dl=0


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Unread 02/16/2018, 04:23 PM   #2
nereefpat
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Is that GFO or carbon? Looks kind of dark. You want water to go through carbon slow.

If it's GFO...then nevermind.


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Unread 02/16/2018, 04:50 PM   #3
HBtank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nereefpat View Post
Is that GFO or carbon? Looks kind of dark. You want water to go through carbon slow.

If it's GFO...then nevermind.
Other way around, carbon can physically handle higher flow and GFO can not; simply to avoid breaking apart the filter material. I personally pack carbon tight anyway and it can't tumble.

As for contact/dwell time, I personally think it matters little other than the above (and maintaining the filters integrity). People will claim optimum removal for carbon at low flow rates, but those discussions often ignore that it is a closed system and even with say 1/4th the removal, but 5x the turnover, is a net gain from the system perspective. It's all a wash IMO, you are recirculating a system until the reduction is achieved.

Also, I work on large scale activated carbon remediation systems removing toxic VOCs from groundwater, with gallons per SECOND going though them, so I am a bit biased on what is practical.

As for the OP, not all GFO is the same and that looks OK, maybe a bit high. It is friable and too much flow will break it apart. I personally have mine a bit slower when I run it, but mine is the cheaper stuff.


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80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia!

Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

Last edited by HBtank; 02/16/2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Unread 02/16/2018, 05:01 PM   #4
nereefpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBtank View Post
Other way around, carbon can physically handle higher flow and GFO can not; simply to avoid breaking apart the filter material. I personally pack carbon tight anyway and it can't tumble.

As for contact/dwell time, I personally think it matters little other than the above (and maintaining the filters integrity). People will claim optimum removal for carbon at low flow rates, but those discussions often ignore that it is a closed system and even with say 1/4th the removal, but 5x the turnover, is a net gain from the system perspective. It's all a wash IMO, you are recirculating a system until the reduction is achieved.
It was my understanding that activated carbon tumbling like that will pulverize it, sending it to float around the system.

GFO, in low flow situations, will turn in to a rock, which decreases its surface area and effectiveness.

About the contact time, what you said makes sense. It seems to be wash. It could be similar to the argument about sump turnover and skimmers.


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Unread 02/16/2018, 05:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nereefpat View Post
It was my understanding that activated carbon tumbling like that will pulverize it, sending it to float around the system.

GFO, in low flow situations, will turn in to a rock, which decreases its surface area and effectiveness.

About the contact time, what you said makes sense. It seems to be wash. It could be similar to the argument about sump turnover and skimmers.
You are right, you do not want to tumble carbon, but that is as simple as not leaving it loose in a reactor. You can pack carbon tight, no problem. If you do have it loose, you will want low flow (I just would never do it this way).

And GFO can't be packed, because it will solidify, so the tumbling and low flow are simply to avoid this.

A cool solution is to mix the two in one reactor packed tight, the GFO won't solidify due to the carbon mixed in, and the carbon wont tumble Saves space too... but this assumes you run it together and 24/7, which many would advise not to do.


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80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia!

Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA
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Unread 02/16/2018, 07:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by HBtank View Post
You can pack carbon tight, no problem. If you do have it loose, you will want low flow (I just would never do it this way).
That makes sense too.


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Unread 02/17/2018, 08:18 AM   #7
mcgyvr
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Originally Posted by fishkeeprian View Post
Hello set up my GFO reactor tonight because I've had a diatoms bloom in my new setup.
Mistake IMO..
I will never recommend running GFO in a new setup at all and most certainly not in response to the normal ugly stages that a tank needs to go through..
The only reason I might suggest it is if your rocks are known to be leaching phosphates..
But most certainly not for diatoms..

IMO don't mess with that stuff (GFO..crazy chemicals,etc...) at least until your tank has matured.. 8+month mark.. Let nature happen or nature will come back and kick your butt..


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Unread 02/17/2018, 08:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Mistake IMO..
I will never recommend running GFO in a new setup at all and most certainly not in response to the normal ugly stages that a tank needs to go through..
The only reason I might suggest it is if your rocks are known to be leaching phosphates..
But most certainly not for diatoms..

IMO don't mess with that stuff (GFO..crazy chemicals,etc...) at least until your tank has matured.. 8+month mark.. Let nature happen or nature will come back and kick your butt..
I'm with mcgyvr 100% (again).

When (if) the time comes that it is needed, low flow coming up through the GFO is the recommended method. For carbon (and I'm a 24/7/365 x 30 year user), the easiest method is to reverse the flow in your reactor so that rather than coming up through it, the water flow goes down from the top and presses the carbon to the bottom, preventing any tumbling at all. This allows for whatever flow rate you like.


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Unread 02/17/2018, 09:20 AM   #9
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Mistake IMO..
I will never recommend running GFO in a new setup at all and most certainly not in response to the normal ugly stages that a tank needs to go through..
The only reason I might suggest it is if your rocks are known to be leaching phosphates..
But most certainly not for diatoms..

IMO don't mess with that stuff (GFO..crazy chemicals,etc...) at least until your tank has matured.. 8+month mark.. Let nature happen or nature will come back and kick your butt..
I do have pukani rock in there, that is know to leach phosphates,? Should I take it offline?


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Unread 02/17/2018, 10:09 AM   #10
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Are you testing for PO4? How do you know you have a problem? Just assuming there is an issue can easily create more problems than just letting things run their course.

And FWIW - diatoms are more often associated with silicates I think.


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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 02/17/2018, 11:08 AM   #11
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
Are you testing for PO4? How do you know you have a problem? Just assuming there is an issue can easily create more problems than just letting things run their course.

And FWIW - diatoms are more often associated with silicates I think.
I will run some test's. I have got a phosphrus hanna checker and revert back with some numbers.

Thanks


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Unread 02/20/2018, 06:01 AM   #12
JMetaxas
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I used GFO on my last set up, a 65 gallon tank. Between a good clean up crew and GFO use with Carbon, the initial diatom bloom was quite minimal.

I mixed the Carbon and GFO together in a BRS reactor.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 04:05 PM   #13
Deep Reef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMetaxas View Post

I mixed the Carbon and GFO together in a BRS reactor.


Mixing is not recommended. GFO should tumble, carbon not. Tumbling will pulverize the carbon.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 05:36 PM   #14
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Mixing is not recommended. GFO should tumble, carbon not. Tumbling will pulverize the carbon.


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Not true, mixing is fine for single reactors, as you can still avoid both issues.

As I posted above, when GFO is mixed it makes tumbling unnecessary (carbon mixed in stops solidification) and as long as the carbon is not tumbling you are fine. So packed, or reverse flow (thanks Bill!), and mixed is perfectly fine and an easy way to simplify reactors setups.


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80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia!

Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA
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Unread 02/21/2018, 11:46 AM   #15
fishkeeprian
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So on my Hanna Phosphorus checker it says I have 0.322ppm of phosphates so I assume I have a phosphate problem and should keep running my gfo?


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Unread 02/21/2018, 11:51 AM   #16
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
Are you testing for PO4? How do you know you have a problem? Just assuming there is an issue can easily create more problems than just letting things run their course.

And FWIW - diatoms are more often associated with silicates I think.

So on my Hanna Phosphorus checker it says I have 0.322ppm of phosphates so I assume I have a phosphate problem and should keep running my gfo?


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Unread 02/21/2018, 12:17 PM   #17
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Which Hanna unit do you have? ULR HI736?
If so you got 105ppb for you reading right?

Have you kept the GFO running since you started this post?
If so then its likely already exhausted..
Have you checked the phosphate of the water coming directly out of the reactor yet?


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Unread 02/21/2018, 01:20 PM   #18
fishkeeprian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Which Hanna unit do you have? ULR HI736?
If so you got 105ppb for you reading right?

Have you kept the GFO running since you started this post?
If so then its likely already exhausted..
Have you checked the phosphate of the water coming directly out of the reactor yet?
Yes the 105ppb on the hi736 and yes it's been running since this post.

Not tested water coming out the reactor should I do this?

How much gfo do I need in my reactor? I use rowaphos?


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Unread 02/21/2018, 01:42 PM   #19
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Water coming direct out of reactor was 0.009ppm (3ppb)


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Unread 02/21/2018, 02:16 PM   #20
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Ok so your crappy Pukani rock is leaching phosphates (should have cured it with LC or GFO first IMO) but it is what it is..
Continue with the GFO as you are..
When the output from the reactor is no longer near 0 its used up and time to replace the GFO..
Good luck..

I'd check the output of the reactor ever week or so to see when the GFO needs to be replaced..


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Unread 02/21/2018, 02:48 PM   #21
fishkeeprian
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Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Ok so your crappy Pukani rock is leaching phosphates (should have cured it with LC or GFO first IMO) but it is what it is..
Continue with the GFO as you are..
When the output from the reactor is no longer near 0 its used up and time to replace the GFO..
Good luck..

I'd check the output of the reactor ever week or so to see when the GFO needs to be replaced..
I like the pukani rock. I'm in no rush to stock with corals etc. I will keep running the gfo.

Does it matter how much I. Put into my reactor?


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Unread 02/21/2018, 02:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
Ok so your crappy Pukani rock is leaching phosphates (should have cured it with LC or GFO first IMO) but it is what it is..
Continue with the GFO as you are..
When the output from the reactor is no longer near 0 its used up and time to replace the GFO..
Good luck..

I'd check the output of the reactor ever week or so to see when the GFO needs to be replaced..
I've read some of the posts from some of the chemistry guys and they say as long as the reactor water is lower than the tank water within 2ppm then there's no need to change it out.


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Unread 02/21/2018, 03:14 PM   #23
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I've read some of the posts from some of the chemistry guys and they say as long as the reactor water is lower than the tank water within 2ppm then there's no need to change it out.
yes.. that would be just fine..
I went a little too generic on my last answer..

If its lower it means actually doing something..
If its the same its not..

I would think that as its being used up its performance is being reduced so if you want to reduce your phosphate problem as quickly as possible then I would not wait for the output to reach input but rather a happy middle number..


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Unread 02/21/2018, 03:55 PM   #24
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I like the pukani rock. I'm in no rush to stock with corals etc. I will keep running the gfo.

Does it matter how much I. Put into my reactor?
Curious, did you prep (bleach. acid, soak etc.) the rock at all, or straight into the tank?


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80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia!

Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA
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Unread 02/21/2018, 04:48 PM   #25
fishkeeprian
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Curious, did you prep (bleach. acid, soak etc.) the rock at all, or straight into the tank?
I pressure washed it and then cured in a tub then put it in my tank.


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