Bubble King Skimmer Club

[slief]

Originally Posted by vikz

hi guys

just bought a double cone 200 with RD3 speedy for my 180G reef and was after some advice. Thanks to Slief and JeremeyB who gave me some great advice last xmas,......yeah guys took me 12 months to make up my mind.....hahahaha

Skimmer has finally broken in and now im fine tuning it. Currently wedge pipe is open ~25% and sat in 160cm of water, cannot have it deeper as recommended because it will not fit.

I have found that running it on 32w or 34w produces the most stable foam head. Any more power and the foam collapses, any less and the wedge pipe is closed nearly all the way.

This works out to be an air draw of 960lph @32w or 1020lph @34w.

Coincidentally this is exactly the same settings as I used on my excellent ATB 840 with DC pump (Nano B here in the UK). I ran that at wedge pipe 50% open and ~1020lph air draw.

I am a little confused, since this skimmer is larger and theoretically more powerful, how comes in order to generate a stable head of foam it requires exactly the same amount of air or very similar settings. I thought it would use more air and water because the skimmer body is much bigger.

Would be interested to know the answer from somebody much more experienced.

I assume you meant 16cm of water and not 160cm?? Obviously that is kind of low which is why you have to have the wedge pipe closed so much which isn't ideal.

That said, you know the old saying... It's not the size that counts but it's how you use it??

Air draw is kind of for bragging rights. It's not the total air draw that's as important as it is the size of the bubbles and the contact time. You could increase the air draw by opening the wedge pipe up and increasing the pumps power but that won't produce the best results as you have already seen. The original ATB's came with a fixed flow pump with no adjustable volute to control the airflow. You got what you got and the end result is a larger bubble. The original Red Dragon pumps that were included with the previous generation skimmers included an adjustable volute to compensate for the fixed pump RPM. The adjustable volute allowed you to adjust the air flow into the pumps to create finer bubbles to achieve better results. Sure you could open the volute up and get more air into the skimmer but that wouldn't produce the best foam or balance inside the skimmer. The end result was a better skimmer pump even though many of the ATB's shared the same Askoll block.

If you could have put a Red Dragon 1 on an ATB, you would have much better control over the tuning of the skimmer. Same goes with the RD3 vs the Chinese based DC pumps that come on the current ATB's. They allow for only 6 or so steps in pump speed control with only 2 or 3 of them being really usable before the power falls off and the skimmer production falls flat. The RD3 allows 2 steps per watt which gives much finer control. If you had that kind of control over an ATB, you might be really surprised to see that the lower power settings work much better than the higher ones. Unfortunately, you don't get that kind of control with that pump. Like the DC based ATB pumps, the new RD3 pumps tie the air mixture into the pumps RPM. The RD3 uses a very custom impeller that is designed to produce very fine bubble at any RPM. You can inject more than double the air into the skimmer (compared to the 840 pump) but that won't produce the best results because you are forcing more water and air through the skimmer which creates more turbulence and also decreases contact time by increasing the power/flow. So there is a point of diminishing returns in terms of pump speed.

It's all about balance, bubble size and contact time. The RD3 strikes a great balance of all of those factors by giving you very finite control compared to other DC pump based skimmers while also providing great air draw and very very fine bubbles but again, it's not how much air you can draw that's important. It's what you do with that air that is what makes or breaks a great skimmer. I think you will find the proof is in the pudding or in this case, in the skimmate.

Having said that, I run a Supermarin 250 which is obviously a bigger skimmer than yours. I run my pump at 37 watts for best results but my skimmer is also in 8.5" of water. If your water level was higher as it should be, I'd recommend a lower pump speed of around 27-30 watts for best performance. That would increase your contact time a bit more and not decrease your airflow as much as you might expect. Also, that brings up a question. What are you using to measure your air draw? You can't just calculate air draw based on the max a pump puts out vs it's wattage as you decrease the power. Either way, like I said, air flow/SCFH/LPH is more for bragging rights than it is for judging a skimmers performance. It's all about the bubble size and contact time. In the case of the Bubble King, the contact time is greater and the bubble size is smaller which makes more efficient use of the bubbles. This will translate into better skimmate production and a more efficient skimmer even if the LPH draw is marginally less.

As a side note, Royal Exclusiv is now a forum sponsor at Reef Central and we have a dedicated for here for all things Royal Exclusiv and Bubble King. I obviously still monitor this thread but feel free to post any questions you may have in our new forum.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=745

[shred5]

Originally Posted by vikz

hi guys

just bought a double cone 200 with RD3 speedy for my 180G reef and was after some advice. Thanks to Slief and JeremeyB who gave me some great advice last xmas,......yeah guys took me 12 months to make up my mind.....hahahaha

Skimmer has finally broken in and now im fine tuning it. Currently wedge pipe is open ~25% and sat in 160cm of water, cannot have it deeper as recommended because it will not fit.

I have found that running it on 32w or 34w produces the most stable foam head. Any more power and the foam collapses, any less and the wedge pipe is closed nearly all the way.

This works out to be an air draw of 960lph @32w or 1020lph @34w.

Coincidentally this is exactly the same settings as I used on my excellent ATB 840 with DC pump (Nano B here in the UK). I ran that at wedge pipe 50% open and ~1020lph air draw.

I am a little confused, since this skimmer is larger and theoretically more powerful, how comes in order to generate a stable head of foam it requires exactly the same amount of air or very similar settings. I thought it would use more air and water because the skimmer body is much bigger.

Would be interested to know the answer from somebody much more experienced.

It is about nutrients that you have.. ATB is a extremely efficient skimmer and probably one of the best designed skimmers out there. Maybe not the best pumps, the RD3 is for sure a better pump dc pump than the one that comes with ATB. Your nutrients have not changed and the ATB was probably doing its job. Adding a larger skimmer or putting more air through wont make a difference if there is not more nutrients to be remove.

Actually a more efficient/better designed skimmer would require less air to remove the same amount of nutrients, so it sounds pretty good. ATB and BK are probably the best designed skimmers out there and some of the best built so being equal in air sounds right.. Surprises me ATB when with a Chinese pump but I have been running it no issues and is more adjustable than any of the others Chinese pumps I have seen. You bought a nice skimmer.

[vikz]

Thanks for the advice guys

[arkoujohn]

Happy New Years guys!
Wich bbk model would you recommend me for a new 700lt (about 180g) mainly sps tank?
Thank you in advance for your answers!

[slief]

Originally Posted by arkoujohn

Happy New Years guys!
Wich bbk model would you recommend me for a new 700lt (about 180g) mainly sps tank?
Thank you in advance for your answers!

I would suggest the Double Cone 200 for your size tank. It would be the perfect fit and with the RD3 pump, tuning would be really easy and the performance will exceed your expectations. It's a great skimmer with one of the best skimmer pumps on the market.

[vikz]

Slief

Following your advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing skimmate like me previous skimmer. Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 32w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

[slief]

Originally Posted by vikz

Slief

Following your advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing skimmate like me previous skimmer. Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 32w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

Please see my reply to your question in the Bubble King forum.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2546139&page=2

[seregus]

Hi all,

I've Bubble King Double Cone 180 with RD3 on a ~125G display (500Litres display + 90L refugium + ~100L sump) system running for 3 months+.
Water level is 18cm (7"), RD3 is set to 28-29W, output pipe is fully open.

Previously (a year ago) it was running on 50G system with no micro bubbles coming out at all!
But now I'm like plagued with micro-bubbles it seems they are just coming out not from the top, but from the bottom!

Skimmate however is produced well.

I've tried to rise water level inside skimmer (closing output by rotating pipe), but it's just overflowing in a few minutes, also reduced RD3 output (at the same time) - no any effect on micro bubbles at all.

Guys from Royal Exclusiv in Germany just send me a link to F.A.Q., which didn't help and nothing else.

Maybe someone here could give an advice, please?

Thank you all in advance!

[slief]

Originally Posted by seregus

Hi all,

I've Bubble King Double Cone 180 with RD3 on a ~125G display (500Litres display + 90L refugium + ~100L sump) system running for 3 months+.
Water level is 18cm (7"), RD3 is set to 28-29W, output pipe is fully open.

Previously (a year ago) it was running on 50G system with no micro bubbles coming out at all!
But now I'm like plagued with micro-bubbles it seems they are just coming out not from the top, but from the bottom!

Skimmate however is produced well.

I've tried to rise water level inside skimmer (closing output by rotating pipe), but it's just overflowing in a few minutes, also reduced RD3 output (at the same time) - no any effect on micro bubbles at all.

Guys from Royal Exclusiv in Germany just send me a link to F.A.Q., which didn't help and nothing else.

Maybe someone here could give an advice, please?

Thank you all in advance!

Just a heads up, we have a forum here now which you can access from the link in my signature below.

I assume this skimmer has been in the new system for a few months and isn't still breaking in? I would lower the wattage to around 23 or 24 watts. That's is the starting point I recommend for the 180 as 27 or 28 watts is a lot of flow for that skimmer size. Then raise the water level in the sump or close the wedge pipe some. The lower wattage will reduce the amount of micro bubbles in your sump. It will also increase the contact time and make the bubbles smaller.

[msaba]

Hey guys--just wanted to give Scott and Royal Exclusive an overdue big thumbs up for the customer service I received on a motor block on my BK mini 160 recently. I received a phone call the same day from Scott and a new motor block in 3 DAYS from him. You guys are in great hands! thanks again!

Mark

[slief]

Originally Posted by msaba

Hey guys--just wanted to give Scott and Royal Exclusive an overdue big thumbs up for the customer service I received on a motor block on my BK mini 160 recently. I received a phone call the same day from Scott and a new motor block in 3 DAYS from him. You guys are in great hands! thanks again!

Mark

Thanks Mark! We really appreciate it!

[Jretzer]

Would appreciate some help here. I am in the process of upgrading my current 120 gallon tank to a 250 deep with probably a 75 gallon sump. I acquired a 300 super marin from a friend, but am concerned that it will be too big for my setup, is this possible? I plan on having a fair amount of live rock, not a ton of fish, and soft corals. Nothing crazy. Thoughts? Is this thing not going to work because it's too big for the setup? If I were to try to get rid of it what is a fair price to ask? It's in great shape and is probably 4 years old but hasn't been used for the last 2 years.

[billbunton]

Yes, that will be _way_ too big. You want a Double Cone 200, that's what I have on my 260G (not very heavily stocked) tank. I can't help you with what the SM 300 is worth, sorry.

[biecacka]

Yeah you definitely don't want to run at 300 on your tank. I run a double come 200 on my 240 with 30 fish and its begging me for more! These skimmers are work horses! No need to oversize them.

Corey

[Jretzer]

Is there anyone out there looking for a 300 Super Marin? Can I use the pumps on any of the other models?

[slief]

Originally Posted by Jretzer

Is there anyone out there looking for a 300 Super Marin? Can I use the pumps on any of the other models?

As others said, the 300 would be too large for your planned system. Those pumps are kind of specific to the 300. You'd be much better off selling that skimmer with the pumps. Then get yourself a double cone 200 with the RD3 pump.

I'm guessing that you could probably sell that 300 skimmer for close to $1000 .

[Chris155hp]

Hey Slief,
Need a little guidance. I'm upgrading from my current 60 Gallon SPS dominant(w/ swc160 skimmer) to a ~176g (66x28x22" Rimless Reef Savvy with 3/4 glass) Acro Dominant Bare Bottom Display tank. I am trying to replicate the conditions of my current setup as I have been very successful growing acros, just trying to increase the size of my "glass box". The tank will be med-heavy- heavy stocked with fish and be SPS Acro Dominant with a tonga rock somewhat minimalist aquascaping. The sump options i am looking at all have 3-4 filter socks and will have ample room to fit a large skimmer and hold about 30-40 gallons of water at normal operating levels( looking at synergy 44/48 or reef savvy surreal sumps. i will also have marine pure bio filter media to increase bacterial surface area. I currently feed ~2-3 times a week with apex auto feeder finding twice a day pellets. for a while i was running into issue with water being too clean so i have dialed back maintenance and acros have never been better. I skim on the dryer side and only do 30-40% water changes every 4-5 months.

For my new build and I'm torn between the two models and sizes.
Looking at the Double Cone 200 RD3 Speedy and the 200 Bubble King Supermarin RD3 Speedy. but am worried that the SM might be too oversized and not produce a constant foam head or strip the nutrients too effectively as i am actually user the recommended range of tank sizes. I also know it is "more heavy duty" build quality wise which interests me but i really like the look of the DC as I am familiar with vertex 150 on my friends similarly sized tank. Please advise. price differences doesn't concern me as much as getting the perfect skimmer for my corals. Thanks in advance and let me know if theres any other info you need.

[biecacka]

Chris, until Slief jumps in I'll try to see if I can provide you with my insight. I run a double cone 200 on my 240 wig 30 fish in it...the supermarin will be likely be WAY too big. I would even consider the dc180 for your tank. If I had to guess that will work pretty solid on your tank and should provide you with a constant thick skim.

Corey

[Chris155hp]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Chris, until Slief jumps in I'll try to see if I can provide you with my insight. I run a double cone 200 on my 240 wig 30 fish in it...the supermarin will be likely be WAY too big. I would even consider the dc180 for your tank. If I had to guess that will work pretty solid on your tank and should provide you with a constant thick skim.

Corey

Thanks I appreciate it. That's what I was thinking but wanted to make sure. Between the 180 and 200 which would you choose. I tend to overstock fish wise but don't feed to heavy but I could do both if the skimmer needs it

[biecacka]

Well I have a 240 with 30 fish in it and I looked into the 180 as well. But I went with the 200 on Slief's recommendation. I would go with the 180 on your tank if it was me. The 200 on my tank with 30 fish and heavy feeding has no issues keeping up, in fact I could add more small fish and/or feed it more.
Wait for Scott to jump in but that is what I would do. (The 180)

Corey

[Chris155hp]

Ok will do

[slief]

Originally Posted by Chris155hp

Thanks I appreciate it. That's what I was thinking but wanted to make sure. Between the 180 and 200 which would you choose. I tend to overstock fish wise but don't feed to heavy but I could do both if the skimmer needs it

Originally Posted by biecacka

Well I have a 240 with 30 fish in it and I looked into the 180 as well. But I went with the 200 on Slief's recommendation. I would go with the 180 on your tank if it was me. The 200 on my tank with 30 fish and heavy feeding has no issues keeping up, in fact I could add more small fish and/or feed it more.
Wait for Scott to jump in but that is what I would do. (The 180)

Corey

+1..

You could go with either the Double Cone 180 or the Double Cone 200. The 180 would be very consistent on your tank. The 200 would work as well. You kind of fall right between the two models. You are at the high end for the 180 but the low end for the 200. Given that you are running filter socks, the 180 would have no issues keeping up with your load. Heck, even without them, it would be fine. It's kind of underrated anyway. I think Premium has the 180's in stock too as well as the 200's.

[Chris155hp]

Originally Posted by slief

+1..

You could go with either the Double Cone 180 or the Double Cone 200. The 180 would be very consistent on your tank. The 200 would work as well. You kind of fall right between the two models. You are at the high end for the 180 but the low end for the 200. Given that you are running filter socks, the 180 would have no issues keeping up with your load. Heck, even without them, it would be fine. It's kind of underrated anyway. I think Premium has the 180's in stock too as well as the 200's.

Do you think the 200 would be consistent as well. I don't run carbon either to keep organic phospate a little on the higher sides and just small a amount of gfo to reduce inorganic phospate. Like would I be able to dial down the 200 and still get the consistency with having all that headroom if I decide to go crazy with fish

[Chris155hp]

Double post

[biecacka]

It probably woukd, you might just have to run it in deeper water and possible close the wedge more than desirable. I run mine in 10.5 inches of water as opposed to 8-9 that is recommended because my load is still light for that skimmer. Plus I don't have to keep the wedge pipe so closed. Also it lets me run a lower speed on the pump. I'll post a pic of it running later in the Royal exclusiv forum.

Corey