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04/29/2012, 01:17 PM | #1 |
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"First Night Death" syndrome
I read about this on MOFIB. This seems to be what I am experiencing. Of about 600 that hatch, 150 seem to free swim after hatching and growout fine; the rest hit the bottom immediately after hatching. They are most definately alive on the bottom. If I shine a light on them, them seem to twitch off the botom, but settle back. In the morning after hatch, they are dead. The remaining ones growout fine.
Parents have spawned 15-20 times and are very well fed. Rods food, NLS pellets, enriched Spirulina brine, Formula One/two, etc 4-6 times a day. Parent tank is 80.5-81.5 so they hatch day 8. I pull them a couple hours before hatching, run 8 gallons of parent water thru a UV sterilizer slow (25W @ around 100 GPH flow rate) and put them in a sterile 10g w/ airstone and heater. Rotifers are added,water is tinted green, and CloramX is added. What causes this? What can I try?
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
04/29/2012, 02:27 PM | #2 |
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I've just tried this on Friday, tank water from the parents tank, no green water or rots until the next. I think the greenwater kills them as this has happened way to many times before to me. But this is my experience and others have their own. I only had a small hatch and theres a bunch that are still going strong today. Don't add any chemicals is my first bit of advice...
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04/30/2012, 07:38 PM | #3 |
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What causes this is subject to several theories.
What to do: http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/...p=94060#p94060
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Luis A M Current Tank Info: I keep about 40 tanks,for breeding and larval raising.Most are 10 gallons. |
04/30/2012, 08:08 PM | #4 | |
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I am trying to source erythromycin from a vet. How much bleach do I put in 5 gallons of water? So I set up 5 gallons of 1.010 aged saltwater. Add x amount of bleach and 125 mg of erythromycin. Transfer eggs before hatching. Bubble like normal until hatching is complete. I dont add anything to neutralize the bleach?
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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04/30/2012, 10:39 PM | #5 |
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what type of lighting are you using? how much water do you keep in the 10 gallon?
can we see a picture of your setup? adding chemicals is a very bad idea. stability is more important. it's better to have them in poor parent water then to be playing around with the parameters. they can live for 2-3 days off the yolk. it's not starvation and it's not transfer damage. it's definitely something you are doing.
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04/30/2012, 11:20 PM | #6 | |
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Sterilizing with Cl overnight is followed by neutralizing with Thiosulphate. 1 ml of bleach /gal.is fine.
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Luis A M Current Tank Info: I keep about 40 tanks,for breeding and larval raising.Most are 10 gallons. |
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05/01/2012, 05:27 AM | #7 | |
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I dont have any pictures at the moment, but my setup is the same as 80% of everybody elses. 10g with 5-6 g starting out. 50w heater and airstone. Tile with eggs. I can almost guarantee you its not the set-up. Like I said, I can raise 150 fry/hatch to sellable size just like every other novice you see on this board; I want to raise 5-700 per hatch. Sushi, google "MPD, first night death syndrome". Apparantly other breeders are plagued by it as well.
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/01/2012, 11:02 AM | #8 | |
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I run 24 hour lighting the first day. I don't want the fry settling down immediate after hatch. I want them hunting and active. My fry don't get a dark period until day 2. Why don't you try keeping them active like I do? No one listens to me but I swear by my slow-drip fry tank. Here's a link. When you suddenly get 100% success rates, you know who to thank. : ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLVDyjDNtOQ
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05/01/2012, 11:44 AM | #9 | |
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I also run 24 hour lighting for the first couple days. Remember, though, my problem is with the first 8 hours after hatch. About 25% are normal; the other 75% seems to have a neurological/some other defect. As soon as they hatch, they settle to the bottom. If you light them up, they twitch off the bottom, do a couple spins, and settle back down. Ive tried a low wattage CFL directly at the tanks surface, same light diffused, over head ceiling fan light, blue CFLs for moonlights (both at the tank and at the ceiling). Ive tried every possible lighting scenario, but I need to figure out what is physically wrong with the doomed fry. I really dont think there is another lighting scenario to try. FYI, lights out is 10 pm. Fry hatch between 10-12 pm. By 6 am the "doomed" ones are dead. This cant be from lighting or starvation. They look good when they are on the bottom, its almost like they dont have the strength to swim. Parents are well fed; 4-6 times a day with a variety of quality food. At 80.5*, hatch is 8 days, so there is egg sack left. Maybe its genetic with the parents ??? The drip method is a method Ive been planning to implement for a year or more, but I have no room currently. With 10 pairs of clowns, 18 growout tanks, and 4 fry tanks, there is just no room. Next hatch is am going to try sterilizing the equipment with Clorox but rinse well. Setup as normal with .0265 parent water thru the UV as normal, BUT lower the water to 1.020ish by hatch. Then no rots or greenwater until morning.
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/01/2012, 01:54 PM | #10 | |
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I don't begin to lower the salinity for a month and even then I only drop it to 1.022. I hear you about running out of room. But this is one thing I make room for. As you can see, I just use a little wire rack. It needs to be next to a stable system for all of 3 weeks until I can get them off rotifers and onto a sponge filter.
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05/01/2012, 02:06 PM | #11 | |
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You are my new mentor! I like your thinking. |
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05/01/2012, 02:24 PM | #12 | |
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I stop rotifers at day 7 and add a sponge filter then. At day 7 they are eating NHBBS and TDO B1 at day 10. I have them at sellable size in 4 months. If I can get this bug worked out, I'll be set. I lose 1% or less after day 1. The first 8 hours is whats troubling me.
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/01/2012, 02:36 PM | #13 |
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The only way I have overcome this is to let the nest hatch in the DT and then use a snagger I made to get them. Then I transfer them to a tank I have ready with display water.
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05/01/2012, 02:55 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/02/2012, 06:20 AM | #15 |
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05/02/2012, 09:51 AM | #16 | |
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Quote:
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05/02/2012, 10:44 AM | #17 | |
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During the day they seem to hover in one spot and chill, but at darktime they are active.
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/02/2012, 10:57 AM | #18 |
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I may be on to something. I just pulled all my notes for the past year of spawning. When the parents are on a 14 day cycle (8 day hatch, 6 days later laying) the hatch/survival numbers are great.
The past 6 cycles have gone like this (in the form of days tohatch/days later laying): 8/3 8/6 8/4 8/3 8/3 8/3 So the past 3 cycles, or the ones that have given me fits, they only waited 3 days between hatching and laying. Maybe this is caused poor egg quality? Why are they even doing this?
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
05/02/2012, 11:05 AM | #19 |
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sorry its not much help with the cardinals thats the way mine are as i said it only works if i cover the tank any light at all seems to keep them active
sorry i cant help with your other post but it looks like you could be on to something good luck |
05/04/2012, 12:04 PM | #20 |
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Wow I have not posted in here for ages :-)
Hola Luis, hermano! Try to feed a little bit more squid in diet , not much just a bit. Antibiotics like the ones suggested by Luis do not harm the fish. It does not matter how you set the lights as long as it is not too bright, ambient light is fine. Since I have been lost for a while here a link to my company, we raise about 2000 clowns , dottybacks and gobies every week. http://www.addy-zone.com The E |
05/04/2012, 09:44 PM | #21 |
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Hola Edgar!
Didn´t hear from you since you went to France...But I saw some pics of your hatchery when Matt W.and Tal visited. There are many ways to breed fish,some work for some, but not for others.I try to show respect for other people´s methods even if they seem wrong to me.
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Luis A M Current Tank Info: I keep about 40 tanks,for breeding and larval raising.Most are 10 gallons. |
05/09/2012, 08:28 PM | #22 |
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Are you having the trouble with the same pair of clowns or different pairs?
I am having the same trouble with my gsm, tomatoes and I think my Darwin's as well. I would get about 90% death like you hvac. I feed mine very well too. I have my own recipe and I do use squid too. I keep a low watt bulb on for 3 days also and same mass death Happening. I do bleach my tanks out after each use and I rinse with vinegar and water after that to clean lit the residue. I don't feed or tint till next morning either unless I am up anxiously waiting for them to hatch. I think is glorious to see them hatch. Like I am 8 all over opening all my transformers I got from Santa!! Sushi I am gonna send you a pm. Hope you figure it out and if I find out I will drop you a line. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk |
05/09/2012, 09:50 PM | #23 | |
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I think mine is a parent issue, but I didnt get to experiment this hatch. The idiots laid 2 days after hatching. I thought it was 3 (which is what they have been doing when I have mass die-off quick), so I went to pull the eggs tonight and they must have hatched last night.
So after an 8 day hatch, they laid 2 days later. Maybe them not waiting the full 6 days to lay after hatching is turning up poor quality eggs. Maybe the energy to hatch is wiping them out? Pure speculation though. Quote:
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
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05/11/2012, 08:48 PM | #24 |
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Back to an 11 day spawn.
Is anybody else having frequent spawnings like this? I thought 14 days was pretty common.
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220 in-wall reef, 10 clown pairs, 4 fry tanks, 18 grow-out tanks Current Tank Info: 220 in-wall reef, clownfish breeding/growout system, 20L coral QT and 29 fish QT |
05/12/2012, 10:49 AM | #25 |
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my last spawning pair were on an 8 day schedule. From eggs to spawn 8 days, it was no longer than 7 days before a new clutch was laid. I had it timed to the hour when they hatched. My black o's hatched 8 days but took 12 days after the hatch to lay another batch.
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