Is there a way to test for electric current in the water column?

240gallons · 01/22/2018, 07:35 PM

I can't feel anything but getting desperate.

About to lose my entire system to a slow death. Over a couple months all zoanthids have closed and lost a plate.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2661266

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avery155 · 01/22/2018, 07:43 PM

Digital multi meter set to ac, one probe in water,one probe in the GROUND in the wall outlet.

heathlindner25 · 01/22/2018, 07:46 PM

^^ this^^

organism · 01/22/2018, 08:39 PM

I had something similar and it ended up being both of my MP10 pumps were rusted and nuking my tank. Do you have anything with magnets in the tank that might be corroding or exposed?

240gallons · 01/22/2018, 09:11 PM

so..

21.3 v Total

Korilla #1 disconnected drops to 12 v
Korilla #2 disconnected drops to 10 v
return pump drops to 0 v.

what's acceptable?

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organism · 01/22/2018, 10:37 PM

I believe 0 v is where you want to be since stray current implies exposed metal wires. Did you check the magnets on the Koralias?

mcgyvr · 01/23/2018, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240gallons

so..

21.3 v Total

Korilla #1 disconnected drops to 12 v
Korilla #2 disconnected drops to 10 v
return pump drops to 0 v.

what's acceptable?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

All of that is acceptable and not a problem at all..

Time to look elsewhere for the problem..

Have you checked all your magnets for leaking/rusting?

240gallons · 01/23/2018, 06:01 AM

Will check all magnets today.

As far at current goes, is there a threshold?
Just so I'm aware for future reference.

Also, added a grounding probe which brought current to 0.

rockslide123 · 01/23/2018, 06:32 AM

Check for anything cracked or corroded. Could be leaching metals.

Rover88 · 01/23/2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240gallons

Will check all magnets today.

As far at current goes, is there a threshold?
Just so I'm aware for future reference.

Also, added a grounding probe which brought current to 0.

It brought the voltage to 0, or it brought the current to 0? There is quite a difference.

mcgyvr · 01/23/2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240gallons

Will check all magnets today.

As far at current goes, is there a threshold?
Just so I'm aware for future reference.

Also, added a grounding probe which brought current to 0.

Don't confuse voltage with current.. They are NOT the same.. You are just measuring voltage induced into the air/water by the rotating magnetic fields,etc...

Do NOT run a grounding probe unless all submerged line powered equipment is protected by a GFCI device..
Do NOT run an aquarium unless all submerged line powered equipment is protected by a GFCI device..

You can pick up a GFCI power strip/tap for under $20 and it will trip the instant a "real" issue develops.. (It will trip the instant 5ma or more of current is lost somewhere..)

In general on a tank without GFCI protection and using a multimeter I personally would not be concerned unless I saw more than 1/3rd to 1/2 line voltage.. So 40-60V or so..
Not all meters are the same either.. Their all have different impedances and your meter might register 20V and mine only 5V.. So I will almost never recommend using a meter as done here either..

I will always recommend you skip the meter and just follow the bold statements above..

Something like this is all you need to have GFCI protection..
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tower-Ma...FXbJ4wcdxMgLjQ

HBtank · 01/23/2018, 01:32 PM

All tanks have induced voltage as mcgyvr says. The whole "stray voltage" rabbit hole is essentially just that. Additionally, just going around and using a meter to see if there is current (an actual problem) in saltwater is a bad idea... what do you think happens if there is an issue that is actually hazardous?

I would honestly look to other issues; i.e. I was a victim of a magnet, also of zoa nudis.

240gallons · 01/23/2018, 05:15 PM

The magnets on my powerheads were actually immaculate. I pulled back the rubber seal on the Koralias and it was actually dry behind the rubber.

Mag Float looks great.

After the massive water change there is small improvement in polyp opening which is been typical over the course of this issue. This leads me to believe it has to be water quality vs pests.

over all corals have lost their luster but are alive for the time being.

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240gallons · 01/23/2018, 05:16 PM

reference 24 hours 80% water change

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mcgyvr · 01/23/2018, 05:56 PM

So....how long has this been happening? what changed then..
post your parameters? have they been stable?
have you checked your freshly mixed salt water to ensure its parameters are fine?
any other hints/changes/additions/new salt mix?
tried running a poly filter yet?
running any carbon?
,etc...
etc...

HBtank · 01/23/2018, 06:02 PM

There is a longer thread in the OP; I would have sworn nudis if not for a plate also dying and multiple dips.

HBtank · 01/23/2018, 06:38 PM

Do you have corrosion on your lights? I heard the black box style can be an issue?

mcgyvr · 01/23/2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBtank

There is a longer thread in the OP

thanks.. didn't see that..
"some" additional info there.. still missing a bunch IMO..
alk is high..
and if they have been doing more larger changes with a salt mix thats higher than that by default they could just be jacking it up even higher..

I'd start by dropping that down (slowly over a good week or 2)

Then head to the LFS and have them do a full round of tests to confirm/fill in the gaps..

I'd wanna know if carbon is being run in a reactor or just a bad dropped somewhere..

I'd run some polyfilter..

etc...etc...

Kevin Guthrie · 01/24/2018, 10:49 AM

If there is some kind of voltage leak from a submerged device and you add a very expensive titanium grounding probe, you will then get current flow thru you tank, which can't be good for any of the inhabitants. OTOH it might protect you from a shock.

IMO this whole "stray voltage" thing (is there "tame voltage" too?) takes advantage of people who are desperate: they can't see why their reef is going bad, so they are willing to grasp at invisible straws.

240gallons · 01/24/2018, 07:48 PM

Thank you ALL the replies. I have not retested my water in 3 day since the 80% water change. I can only assume it's close to Instant Ocean specs as it always is. Going to LFS tomorrow for a full water analysis to verify my kits.

Gaps
- Added a Magnum HOT with 100% carbon. This thing is pumping some water!
- Removed the carbon media bag.
-All inverts are happy (blood shrimp, cleaner shrimp, snails, etc)
- Fish are fat and disease free
-replaced return pump and 1 Hydrolia PH, removed the 2nd powered, so all PHs are new.
- Inspected all old pumps and they look fine.
- removed grounding probe
-LED fixtures are in perfect condition
- stray voltage dropped to 15v if that even matters.

Zoas closed
Leathers open
Chalices not "brilliant" in color
Euphillia about 1/2 as full as normal

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240gallons · 01/25/2018, 04:55 PM

Update 24 hours post pump replacement and addition of carbon reactor.
LFS literally looked at me and said "your water is perfect."

We tested everything, phosphates, nitrates Etc and things look great.

Not sure if it was the pump removal or the addition of the reactor but things are looking up. Just don't know how long it will last. In the past, Polyp opening was temporary. Feeling optimistic.

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240gallons · 01/26/2018, 05:42 PM

48 hours later. Zoanthids have closed back up.

Interesting find:

After being in and out of my tank for the last couple of days, I seem to have positioned my powerheads so they're not stimulating the surface of the water. It's pushed all the surface water to one side of the tank.
On the surface there seems to be a significant amount of slime coming from the corals. There seems to be some type of coral Warfare going on in the tank causing them to slime up. I can only imagine this is making every thing stressed.

Nothing is touching so I really don't understand why this would be happening.

I added 7 snails yesterday after the lfs said my water was perfect snail seem to be fine in the bag but haven't moved in 24 hours. They're having a difficult time in this water. The snails that are in the tank already are moving and grazing. I'm assuming they're just acclimated to the conditions.

The carbon reactor would become essentially uneffective due to the slime on the carbon.

I do not and have never run a skimmer on this tank. Just because I do frequent large water changes. But I wonder if a skimmer would pull the slime out of the water column?

Now that I've eliminated just about everything else, I need to start isolating Coral in two different tanks. Unfortunately I don't have a QT.

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01/22/2018, 08:39 PM	#4
organism code monkey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: south bay Posts: 6,223	I had something similar and it ended up being both of my MP10 pumps were rusted and nuking my tank. Do you have anything with magnets in the tank that might be corroding or exposed? __________________ I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros

01/22/2018, 10:37 PM	#6
organism code monkey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: south bay Posts: 6,223	I believe 0 v is where you want to be since stray current implies exposed metal wires. Did you check the magnets on the Koralias? __________________ I don't always grow frags... but when I do, I prefer Dos Acros

01/23/2018, 06:01 AM	#8
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	Will check all magnets today. As far at current goes, is there a threshold? Just so I'm aware for future reference. Also, added a grounding probe which brought current to 0. Last edited by 240gallons; 01/23/2018 at 06:09 AM.

01/23/2018, 01:32 PM	#12
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	All tanks have induced voltage as mcgyvr says. The whole "stray voltage" rabbit hole is essentially just that. Additionally, just going around and using a meter to see if there is current (an actual problem) in saltwater is a bad idea... what do you think happens if there is an issue that is actually hazardous? I would honestly look to other issues; i.e. I was a victim of a magnet, also of zoa nudis. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

01/23/2018, 05:56 PM	#15
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	So....how long has this been happening? what changed then.. post your parameters? have they been stable? have you checked your freshly mixed salt water to ensure its parameters are fine? any other hints/changes/additions/new salt mix? tried running a poly filter yet? running any carbon? ,etc... etc... __________________ Who me?

01/22/2018, 07:35 PM	#1
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	Is there a way to test for electric current in the water column? I can't feel anything but getting desperate. About to lose my entire system to a slow death. Over a couple months all zoanthids have closed and lost a plate. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2661266 Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/22/2018, 07:43 PM	#2
avery155 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: South of Pittsburgh Posts: 79	Digital multi meter set to ac, one probe in water,one probe in the GROUND in the wall outlet.

01/22/2018, 07:46 PM	#3
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	^^ this^^

01/22/2018, 09:11 PM	#5
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	so.. 21.3 v Total Korilla #1 disconnected drops to 12 v Korilla #2 disconnected drops to 10 v return pump drops to 0 v. what's acceptable? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/23/2018, 06:32 AM	#9
rockslide123 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Avon Lake OH Posts: 323	Check for anything cracked or corroded. Could be leaching metals.

01/23/2018, 05:15 PM	#13
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	The magnets on my powerheads were actually immaculate. I pulled back the rubber seal on the Koralias and it was actually dry behind the rubber. Mag Float looks great. After the massive water change there is small improvement in polyp opening which is been typical over the course of this issue. This leads me to believe it has to be water quality vs pests. over all corals have lost their luster but are alive for the time being. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/23/2018, 05:16 PM	#14
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	reference 24 hours 80% water change Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/23/2018, 06:02 PM	#16
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	There is a longer thread in the OP; I would have sworn nudis if not for a plate also dying and multiple dips. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

01/23/2018, 06:38 PM	#17
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Do you have corrosion on your lights? I heard the black box style can be an issue? __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

01/24/2018, 10:49 AM	#19
Kevin Guthrie Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 506	If there is some kind of voltage leak from a submerged device and you add a very expensive titanium grounding probe, you will then get current flow thru you tank, which can't be good for any of the inhabitants. OTOH it might protect you from a shock. IMO this whole "stray voltage" thing (is there "tame voltage" too?) takes advantage of people who are desperate: they can't see why their reef is going bad, so they are willing to grasp at invisible straws.

01/24/2018, 07:48 PM	#20
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	Thank you ALL the replies. I have not retested my water in 3 day since the 80% water change. I can only assume it's close to Instant Ocean specs as it always is. Going to LFS tomorrow for a full water analysis to verify my kits. Gaps - Added a Magnum HOT with 100% carbon. This thing is pumping some water! - Removed the carbon media bag. -All inverts are happy (blood shrimp, cleaner shrimp, snails, etc) - Fish are fat and disease free -replaced return pump and 1 Hydrolia PH, removed the 2nd powered, so all PHs are new. - Inspected all old pumps and they look fine. - removed grounding probe -LED fixtures are in perfect condition - stray voltage dropped to 15v if that even matters. Zoas closed Leathers open Chalices not "brilliant" in color Euphillia about 1/2 as full as normal Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/25/2018, 04:55 PM	#21
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	Update 24 hours post pump replacement and addition of carbon reactor. LFS literally looked at me and said "your water is perfect." We tested everything, phosphates, nitrates Etc and things look great. Not sure if it was the pump removal or the addition of the reactor but things are looking up. Just don't know how long it will last. In the past, Polyp opening was temporary. Feeling optimistic. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

01/26/2018, 05:42 PM	#22
240gallons Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 258	48 hours later. Zoanthids have closed back up. Interesting find: After being in and out of my tank for the last couple of days, I seem to have positioned my powerheads so they're not stimulating the surface of the water. It's pushed all the surface water to one side of the tank. On the surface there seems to be a significant amount of slime coming from the corals. There seems to be some type of coral Warfare going on in the tank causing them to slime up. I can only imagine this is making every thing stressed. Nothing is touching so I really don't understand why this would be happening. I added 7 snails yesterday after the lfs said my water was perfect snail seem to be fine in the bag but haven't moved in 24 hours. They're having a difficult time in this water. The snails that are in the tank already are moving and grazing. I'm assuming they're just acclimated to the conditions. The carbon reactor would become essentially uneffective due to the slime on the carbon. I do not and have never run a skimmer on this tank. Just because I do frequent large water changes. But I wonder if a skimmer would pull the slime out of the water column? Now that I've eliminated just about everything else, I need to start isolating Coral in two different tanks. Unfortunately I don't have a QT. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk