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Unread 02/17/2007, 11:29 PM   #51
Luis A M
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Zoea 9


In the 9th zoea,the antenna is almost half the length of the scale.
This is a lateral view.You can see the scale under the eyes.The antenna can be seen below the scale.


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Unread 02/18/2007, 02:13 AM   #52
Peter Schmiedel
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Luis,

excellent pictures!


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Unread 02/18/2007, 02:45 PM   #53
Luis A M
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Schmiedel
Luis,

excellent pictures!
Thanks! .They are not fancy but serve the purpose of showing the development of the antenna,which is the key feature to recognize the 8th,9th and 10th zoeas.
Antenna is hard to see if you don´t know how it looks and where to watch.In fact,some people have missed it and believed the larvae were marking time until the pleopod buds stage,which they called Z8,like in peppermints,instead of Z11.
But using these pics as a guide,I think anybody checking L.amboinensis larvae under a scope,will be able to ID these new stages.


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Unread 02/18/2007, 04:03 PM   #54
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Zoea 10


This is the 10th zoea,in a lateral view.Antenna,now with a whitish tip,reaches close to the bifurcation of A1,the antennula,or almost the total length of the scale.
Closer view:

Interestingly,in some larvae,I could see a very incipient bud of pleopods,but only in 3th and 4th pairs,heralding the bud development of next stage:



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Unread 02/18/2007, 04:36 PM   #55
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How do you make them stop for the photos Luis ? Are they alive ?
Anderson.


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Unread 02/18/2007, 05:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by aomont
How do you make them stop for the photos Luis ? Are they alive ?
Anderson.
Andy (Spawner) taught me.It´s a matter of leaving them with almost no water,so they can´t move much.


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Unread 02/18/2007, 08:11 PM   #57
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Zoea 11

The 11th zoea shows the pleopod buds:

The antenna is now longer than the scale and the fork of the antennule:

but antenna isn´t relevant any more.From now on development of pleopods is what counts.


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Unread 02/18/2007, 08:48 PM   #58
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Very cool progress Luis...Thanks


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Unread 02/19/2007, 04:09 PM   #59
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90 days

Well,my lonely larva is still hanging on,and reached 90 days!
My previous record was 99.
Pleopods look fully developed.If it was a peppermint,I would say it was last stage,close to settling.
But amboinensis should grow up to 20 mm and 120 days so I expect new stages and/or marking time.This is a view of the pleopods:

Each pleopod has two branches:exopodite and endopodite.See a close look:

Endop.are well developed,with setae (hairs)all around.But exop.are less developed,shorter (about 60%) and especially narrower.
Will see what comes next,provided this larva survives!


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Unread 02/19/2007, 04:35 PM   #60
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Your missing the AI and mine have an AM developed as well on the last stage, so Pp are not quite fully developed; one more stage to go.
So how big is it now?? 1.5-2.0mm??


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Unread 02/19/2007, 06:02 PM   #61
Luis A M
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Quote:
Originally posted by spawner
Your missing the AI and mine have an AM developed as well on the last stage, so Pp are not quite fully developed; one more stage to go.
So how big is it now?? 1.5-2.0mm??
Andy,great you came to help here!
Yes,I can´t see an AI,and exop.look like they still have to grow.
What is AM?.
So I expect another stage.It is 15mm now and has to grow to 20,so some marking time is expected.
A2 is closely banded and a little shorter than A1.Could colour marks assist in staging?


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Unread 02/20/2007, 06:40 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luis A M
What is AM?
Appendix masculina...

Andy, so the PL 1 has on pp2 AI and AM present...how big is the AM in relation to the endopod?


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Unread 02/20/2007, 08:25 AM   #63
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I know crazy, sexually developed during the larval stage. If I remember correctly it had 3 spines and looked fully developed. The speicmen I preserved that was in the last stage is out of the country right now.


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Unread 02/20/2007, 09:30 AM   #64
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Well, maybe another evolutionary characterisitc we should take in account...remember the lenght of AM of L. wurdemanni and boggessi compaired to our new species one ..think about that for a moment


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Unread 02/20/2007, 11:52 AM   #65
Luis A M
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplehaze
Appendix masculina...

Andy, so the PL 1 has on pp2 AI and AM present...how big is the AM in relation to the endopod?
You guys are going too technical for us non specialists...
PL=post larva or pleopod?
pp=pereiopod or propodeus?How does the AM look?.I thought it appeared in the post larva,in the 1st pleop.and later disappears with the onset of hermaphroditism?.
I have seen chelae (claws) in pp 1 and 2 in the last larval stages of boggessi.

On a more lively note,it is nice to see how this big larva uses the paddles of pp3 and pp4 for feeding.When food is introduced and smell reaches the zoea,it starts fanning quickly with these paddles,creating a water current aimed to the mouth parts.


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Unread 02/20/2007, 05:56 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luis A M
You guys are going too technical for us non specialists...
PL=post larva or pleopod?
pp=pereiopod or propodeus?How does the AM look?.I thought it appeared in the post larva,in the 1st pleop.and later disappears with the onset of hermaphroditism?
PL - post larvae
pp - pleopods

The AM is on pp2, between AI and endopod. It appears in male phase individuals and disappears in females phase individuals.
You should not see the AM on boggessi larvae...it is only present a few molts after settlement.

Nice observation on the paddle function

Give me you email address, Ill send you a pic or drawing of the AM and its location


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Unread 02/23/2007, 10:01 PM   #67
Luis A M
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Errata

I had an error in my description of the branches of the pleopods (swimmerttes)
What I called exopods are actually the endopods and my endopods are the real exopods.
So in my last pic,captions should be interchanged.
Thanks to Andy and Helio for informing me about that.
I took the description from Wunsch monography,so I copied his mistake.Hard to believe he could mix up pleopod branches in such an important work.Wunsch was the first to raise L.amboinensis (and L.debelius).

Anyway,my larva reached 95 days today.Looks larger but the pleops don´t show obvious changes.Only that I think I see a bud of AI in the smaller,narrower branch (now the endopod)

Almost breaking my 99 days record...


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Unread 02/24/2007, 05:02 AM   #68
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Re: Errata

Quote:
Originally posted by Luis A M
Anyway,my larva reached 95 days today.Looks larger but the pleops don´t show obvious changes.Only that I think I see a bud of AI in the smaller,narrower branch (now the endopod)

Almost breaking my 99 days record...
Looks like it's going well, maybe time for some shaved shrimp or steroids?


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Unread 02/24/2007, 09:27 AM   #69
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Re: Re: Errata

Quote:
Originally posted by FuEl
Looks like it's going well, maybe time for some shaved shrimp or steroids?
If I change the protocol and it dies,I wouldn´t know what to blame
"If ain´t broken..."


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Unread 02/24/2007, 11:42 AM   #70
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try now luis


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Unread 02/28/2007, 03:34 PM   #71
Luis A M
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100 days!

My larva is 100 days old,breaking my survival record!
It molted today,and it is larger.A couple of days ago I noticed a very incipient hydroid growth,and moved the zoea right away to a clean tank.
This seems to be the trick,fighting hydroids


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Unread 02/28/2007, 07:38 PM   #72
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Congrats.... I was wondring how do you get hydroids in your tank... I ve never seen one in my system


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Unread 03/01/2007, 12:04 PM   #73
Luis A M
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplehaze
Congrats.... I was wondring how do you get hydroids in your tank... I ve never seen one in my system
Lucky you! Everybody is pested with them.They sure come in the LR,though there was a myth that they come in bs eggs.
They show an explosive growth where bbs is supplied.


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Unread 03/01/2007, 02:28 PM   #74
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Well,I checked the pleopods again and they don´t show any change I could notice.Exopods (see previous errata) remain well developed and covered with setae all around.Endopods remain shorter and much narrower,the 1st pair being undeveloped.
But I definitely see the AI in the endops,will post pics later.
So I suspect the zoea is in the last larval stage.But it keeps molting and growing, "marking time".It is about twice as big as peppermint last zoea.

Is this the normal strategy of this species prolonging the larval life to produce a larger post larva?"Giant larvae" are also known for S.hispidus...

Or the larva,which should be now ready to settle,is lacking the famous "settling clues"or some other stressing factor keeps it "bumping"in the last larval stage?.

I am inclined towards the first.Larvae unable to settle should die,not keep growing.

Besides a "masochist game",it is a thriller;you lose just one larva and you lose everything



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Unread 03/01/2007, 08:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luis A M
Endopods remain shorter and much narrower,the 1st pair being undeveloped.
What do you mean by 1st pair undeveloped...

Either way, if a settling cue is missing, they will still eat, molt and grow....so the end result will still be big larvae..

Besides, if the pleopods arent completly developed like you mentioned, they arent ready to morph...


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