5 year old Greenhouse Update

[dendronepthya]

@nauticac4 - Husbandry has been pretty simple, really. In many ways no different than a smaller system. We do water changes every week on a single 1000-gallon system meaning each system gets a monthly water change. In the past, the systems got neglected in terms of water changes and there were periods where a system would not see a water change for 3 months. Over time, I believed this was the cause for our water chemistry to suffer. The Ca, Alk, and Mg are pretty low in the tanks, so that's what made me go out and buy calcium reactors for everything.

We do spot feed the corals regularly. Every other day we do the spot feeding and throw in a little food on the off days for the fish.

As far as fish go, I have a combo that I jokingly call the 'holy trinity.' It is the combination of a Ctenochaetus tang (Kole/Chevron/Tomini/Twinspot/etc.), Fox Face, and an Orange Spot Goby. The tang and fox face do a really great job of handling most types of algae whether it be the film type or the macroalgae variety. I don't think I will ever have a tank that doesn't include these two fish. The other thing I like about this combo is that the Ctenochaetus genus of tangs is one of the most docile. There is almost zero drama having both a fox face and tang in the same tank. In fact they tend to hang out together more than they are apart.

The Orange Spot Goby is the best sand sifter I've found. I have one in each of the six 125-gallon glass photography tanks. A single fish keeps the sand white and clean. Without the fish there, the sand would quickly turn brown (within 48 hours). The only problem I have with the gobies is that they tend to jump out a lot. We've put egg crate on the tank and the fish still manage to make it out.

The only fish we have that doesn't have a 'job' is a single tomato clown that lives in our bubble anemone tank.

@OceansParadise - If I was going to do something in ND, I would try a lean-to style greenhouse building rather than something like I've done. You really only need a south-facing lean-to design to gather the light and the walls on the north end can be insulated with residential materials. The more insulation you have the better off you will be. It certainly costs more up front, but I think you will quickly realize the importance of doing it right from the beginning.

They make polycarbonate sheets that are triple and quadruple layer specifically for places that have cold temperatures and pile snow on the structure. I would look into using a material like that. A 16mm triple wall polycarbonate sheet has an R-value of 2.5. If you used two of these with an air gap in the middle, you would get something close to an R-value of 7 which is really good.

[Electrobes]

Really nice update Than, thank you for sharing. I'm glad it seems things are working for the better.. and I think you're nuts to do this, law school, and video games! I can definitely vouch for the addiction!

[Reef Bass]

WOW Than! Incredibly well done. I particularly like the hot air vents that work by thermal expansion versus an active electric mechanism.

You've inspired me to dream bigger. Thank you.

[Reeferon]

Why is it that you get better colors in the fall?

[yukonblizzard]

Great setup! What type of circulation do you use? I think I read on one of your other threads saying you used Reverse Carlson Surge Device. If so could you explain how yours operate? Finding information on RCSDs is very hard.

[tangdiver]

Hey, do not know if you rember me, but Travis and I were there many years ago when you first started. We had you ship us all the corals we picked out. On the tour of greenhouses we saw 4 and your was the best for smaller setups. The other one we saw was in Detriot and it is been there for 10 years plus some, and is a full business. Your was what we wanted to do, except never did.

Glad all is well, can you PM me, your website and pricelist.

thanks,

Grant

[dendronepthya]

@Electrobes - Thankfully, most of that has subsided. I somehow shook the addiction and got done with law school, so I have MUCH more free time now to do stuff like... I don't know... improve the greenhouse!

@Reef Bass - Thanks! This project has been a labor of love and now my family is really into it. It's really rewarding when it all comes together.

@Reeferon - I think the corals look better in the fall because of the light. In the summer the light is very intense and the photoperiod is much longer. This causes two problems sunburn and algae. Most of the corals I keep like much lower light levels and the increased photoperiod stops their growth and bleaches them. Even with shading, they show signs of overexposure. The additional light makes for more algae which can overwhelm weakened corals. In the fall, everything is just about right. Next summer we are going to do more in terms of shading to see if that helps. I'll have some photos to share on that topic soon.

@yukonblizzard - I abandoned the idea of the reverse Carlson surge device.
The problem I ran into was the device's buoyancy. When you want to make a bigger surge, you have to create a larger device. The problem with a larger device is that it takes a lot of air to build up before it surges. Lots of air = buoyancy. We were weighing it down with concrete cinder blocks and it worked ok for a while but when a little bit of water evaporated the device went up. It takes a lot of weight to keep the device down, so I decided to pitch it.

@tangdiver - I remember! How are those corals doing? Hopefully the purple Blastomussa made it after all these years! In fact, we lost all our corals in a 2007 blizzard, so if you have frags of that coral, I want to buy one back

[dendronepthya]

This past weekend one of our projects was to hang these steel fences over each 300-gallon tank. A few years ago, my parents hung these fences over their orchid tables:


They asked at that time whether I wanted to do something similar over my tanks, but I decided not to mainly because I was worried they would block too much light and I didn't have a good use for them.

Time certainly have changed. As I've mentioned before, "not enough light" isn't a problem except for some light loving SPS. I've also since found some really good uses for these floating shelves. First off, space in the greenhouse is at a premium and more places to manage clutter is better than less. The fences are also a great place to put additional shading in the summer. In the newest set of tanks, we hang lights down from the fence to provide light into the 300-gallon tanks and I think in the future we will do the same over the other six 300-gallon tubs.

A view of how they look over the tanks:


My dad and I installing one:

[Electrobes]

Than - That is really interesting, thanks for posting that idea. In June of next year there is a high possibility of my family moving, and if we do (And assuming my rock business is doing decently) I get a greenhouse!

Interestingly I'll be using the greenhouse for it's temperature uses, not for the light.. so having that extra space would be absolutely key! Out of curiosity.. how much weight can those shelves hold?

[dendronepthya]

@Electrobes - I'll keep my fingers crossed for you on that possible greenhouse in the future. As far as those shelves go, I'm not really sure how much weight they can hold. I suppose it depends a lot on the type of wires used to hang the fence. We use these metal wires. Weight wasn't a huge consideration because we weren't planning on putting much more than 10 lbs on top.

[rEd86]

You'll also have to factor in how much additional weight the greenhouse frame was designed to hold. (assuming that's what you're hanging them from) My guess is they didn't over engineer it too much since that would unnecessarily increase the price.

--Ed

[inktomi]

This looks pretty cool. You mentioned that you had, over the years, found several things that you had planned out and in the end it just didn't work out the way you thought. Would you mind telling us some of the things you'd start differently if you were doing it again?

[kmacartney]

Great build and and thread! What's your Athens connection?

[wdt2000]

I remember your first thread. Its nice to see the update!! How do the corals do at lower temps in the winter? Do you remove certain types in the winter? How are growth rates?

-Will

[keegoaz]

dendronepthya
beautiful green house it looks amazing and looks to me as it is greatly helping with the health of your corals!

if you are selling any frags PM me i would love to see some more close up shots

[dendronepthya]

@inktomi - I can think of a few things I would have changed. Some of the things we went ahead and changed, however there are some things we did not. You can see some examples of what we changed comparing the old thread to this update. The heated floor and the second layer of greenhouse glazing are examples.

One really big change I would do if I were to start from scratch are building a different style greenhouse altogether. Instead of the shape mine is, I would go with a lean-to design facing south and build a regular building on the north side. The second really big change I would try is a geothermal setup for heating and cooling. I've never used one before but I'm very curious as to how it would work.

I really would not change much in terms of the tanks themselves as I am pretty happy with how they have turned out. If I had unlimited funds, I might go with custom fiberglass instead of rubbermaid stock tanks, but it's entirely cosmetic.

@kmacartney - Thanks! I work at Ohio University.

@wdt2000 - I find everything except SPS are better in the winter. The temps dip down to about 72 degrees and everything is great looking. In terms of growing corals, the summer is actually more of a challenge than the winter.

[kmacartney]

Cool! Let me know if you ever want to swap frags.

Best,

Keith

[coralprops]

Hello Than,

VERY nice setup that you have created and what a beautiful greenhouse. Are you using any kind of shading during the summer?
I've build a greenhouse last year and it was just ready before the snow came. First corals came in at the beginning of this year. Most of my corals are doing very well but I have trouble with growing SPS. I am using blue shading during the summer months to keep the GH cool. How do you manage to grow your SPS? How deep do you keep them? My tanks are 30" high and I am thinking of raising the egg crate a bit.

Thanks,
Henk

[The Big Tuna]

Hey Than yer GH looks awsome bro,
I have finally been able to get SPS to jam in my GH including Acros(wich have done better than some other SPS). The key seems to be good, consistent water chemistry & temp control. Temp swings seem to wack SPS in GH quicker than anything else.

[IMG]http://i34.*******.com/5un43p.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]

[IMG]http://i33.*******.com/aaw32r.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]

[IMG]http://i36.*******.com/207t2lc.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]

[IMG]http://i36.*******.com/1z301vl.jpg[/IMG]

PM me sometime & I'll give ya my phone#, God I suck at typing

Joshua

[Bowman]

Hi Than Thanks for the update. Being from NE Ohio I am always curious of the progress your GH making. Enjoyed the presentation you did for our CSEA club and Always a pleasure seeing you at the local frag swaps. Cheers

[reefer31]

Originally Posted by dendronepthya

@inktomi -

One really big change I would do if I were to start from scratch are building a different style greenhouse altogether. Instead of the shape mine is, I would go with a lean-to design facing south and build a regular building on the north side.

Why would you do this kind of GH design?

[madean]

reefer 31- I believe it has to do with better control of light. Could be wrong.
rED86- I agree the truss was probably not designed to have additional weight hanging from the bottom of the truss. All though it is not that much weight and it looks to be spread out amongst other trusses, I would think it is fine. It would have been a better idea to somehow attach the horizontal poles to the top rung of the truss since this is where all the weight is designed to be. As with any truss the weakest point is at the point of connection and the bottom rung or part of the truss. In a residential house where trusses are used fo roofs generally putting plywood for increased storage space is a horrible idea and all it takes is 2-3 trusses failing and the whole roof fails (in a wood atmosphere). As far as the cabling goes, different styles of cable are available at local hw stores and doubling or trippling the cable significantly increases its strength. Ie 100 lb line supported in all four corners doubled could effectively hold 800 lbs but in the real world it will hold more then that as long as your connections are solid and not stressing the cable. If connections stress the cable then up to a 60% decrease in strength could be applied. Its all in the connections because this is where a lot of the stress is.

[madean]

dendro- Im curious as to how you shade your corals when you feel the need to. Do you have some sort of a cabling system ie like raising a flag to apply the extra shade and if so could you explain it or even provide some pics.

[madean]

I am toying with the idea of a GH but I live in sunny CA. Where the light is plentyfull and shade is a concern.

[reefer31]

I believe that a GH in CA would be hard in the summer months because of the heat. But tons of sun!!!