Pros and Cons of a canister filter

Aresangel · 07/31/2015, 08:22 PM

So I have a 72 bowfront that is being set up. My local reefers group is somewhat against canisters however my LFS and myself prefer a canister for the silence and ease.

The cons I have been told (without any explanation) is Canisters are phosphate breeders.

I am currently using a canister filter for my 25 gallon reef tank and I love it (minus the small crash I had when I forgot to order new filter pads... for 6 months :-X) Knowing that mistake I have since added a reminder on my cell phone calendar. I feel like I would not clean the sump either (since I have a gold fish tank with a sump... and it has not been cleaned in 2 years :-0)

Marchillo · 07/31/2015, 08:30 PM

I have one on my 40G that I clean once a week. Phosphates and nitrates are not a big concern. I toss the white pad and replace it. I rinse all the other stuff in the old tank water. Id rather have a sump but I don't mind it. On my new tank I have a sump and no canister.

Ebone · 07/31/2015, 08:38 PM

pros are .....0000 nothing.... cons are well lots of maintenance and you will survive.... not sure about the silence issue... my sump doesn't make any noise... my return makes a little hum and is loudest part of system but is in living room and not loud enough to notice... if have the option the benefits of a sump are far superior...

texdoc77 · 07/31/2015, 10:03 PM

Ah yes, the old canister debate ...

I run a marineland c360 for a couple of reasons. First and foremost when I set my tank up it was not predrilled and the stand that was built for it will not accommodate a HOB set up for the drain. Also it is in the living room and a HOB drain can be a little noisy.

I do NOT buy that the canisters are nitrate factories or phosphate factories any more than the DT or another sump is (even with a CUC). The maintenance IMO is not bad, but I have never run a sump so I cannot compare. I don't like that all my toys are in the DT and are not in the sump. I do not prefer to dose additives in the DT, but I have no choice.

I do not run bioballs or ceramic cylinders in my canister as it is NOT my bio filter. I DO run GAC and phosguard along with filter floss and this works really really well. I can unhook my canister and dump it for a quick water change...

The bottom line is you can use one in the right circumstances and many have, but I would still prefer a sump overall.

This is my limited experience. However, if I had a predrilled tank, I would have a sump in a heartbeat...

Aresangel · 07/31/2015, 11:39 PM

Thank you texdoc for the thoughtful reply. I cannot drill the bottom of my tank because it is tempered, and I am leering of drilling the back of the tank in fear of splitting the whole darn thing.

I do like the idea of the heater, extra live rock, and everything else being out of view. I just picked up a broken 55gallon glass sump that I am going to try to seal. Before I purchase the return pump or canister I am going to research a bit more and get more peoples advice.

I may hold off on a full sump for a pre-drilled tank.. Maybe after this 72 gallon my wife will let me get a 200+

Sapelo · 08/01/2015, 04:32 AM

Canisters have two major downsides that sumps do not:
1. You cannot SEE what is happening inside them which makes it much easier to leave it and forget it.
2. You do not add water volume to your system the way that you do with a sump.
Canisters are also, by they very design, limiting to what types of media you can add. Should you decide to use GFO, you'll need to run an entirely separate "canister."
I lived with a canister for over a year and a sump is the greatest thing to ever happen to my reef keeping experience.
Drill!

kenpau · 08/01/2015, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebone

pros are .....0000 nothing.... cons are well lots of maintenance and you will survive.... not sure about the silence issue... my sump doesn't make any noise... my return makes a little hum and is loudest part of system but is in living room and not loud enough to notice... if have the option the benefits of a sump are far superior...

+1

Pros over a sump.....none
Cons over a sump....as already mentioned, does not add water volume, you can not see what is happening inside, if you dose anything it has to be directly into your DT, heaters etc have to go in the display. I ran canisters for about 6 years and was a bit daunted when I switched to a sump, but it's so easy and now I'd never run a reef system without one.

Saltliquid · 08/01/2015, 05:41 AM

Pro- solid bio filtration and once altered, far better then live rock!
Con- if you do not get rid of all that is in them to have only calcium media and prefilter the hell out of the water before it enters it, then in a month to three years it will fail!
Use them as your wet section with a sump!

billdogg · 08/01/2015, 05:55 AM

Here's my take on the debate:

I used a canister filter on my 60g cube because it was not drilled. It also had a dual biowheel HOB. I never had a nitrate or phosphate issue in the tank even though I cleaned the canister only every 4 - 6 weeks when I did water changes. It was set up with sponges first, then carbon, then a tray of coarse crushed coral, then more carbon, then back to the DT. Rather than it being a Nitrate or Phosphate producer, what it did create was a wonderful growing area for micro brittle stars and pods. Thousands of them over the years. They do become a bit tedious to clean, but it is only as difficult as you choose to make it.

The tank was fairly lightly stocked so I'm sure that was a part of the reason for my success. I have since upgraded to a drilled 120 with a 40b as sump. The canister is now used on major cleanup days, stuffed full of polyester pillow stuffing, or, like last weekend, filled to the brim with carbon after using Flat Worm Exit, to remove the toxins.

As for somebody saying it will be fine for a year or two until it causes your tank to crash? I used it on the 60g tank for 22 years, so I think that might be a bit of a stretch.

Tspors58 · 08/01/2015, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebone

pros are .....0000 nothing....

Then please answer why every week when I change the filter in my canister I am washing and rinsing dirt particles?
I have a 150 w/30g sump also run a canister out and back into sump for cleaner filtration. Sure canister filters can trap and build up the naughty stuff, however, if you clean them on a weekly basis they work fine and have a great benefit. So it comes down to the usual of operator error creates the lack benefits.

Marchillo · 08/01/2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tspors58

Then please answer why every week when I change the filter in my canister I am washing and rinsing dirt particles?
I have a 150 w/30g sump also run a canister out and back into sump for cleaner filtration. Sure canister filters can trap and build up the naughty stuff, however, if you clean them on a weekly basis they work fine and have a great benefit. So it comes down to the usual of operator error creates the lack benefits.

I totally agree with this. I clean mine weekly which may not appeal to most. If you are choosing between a sump or a canister I think the choice is pretty obvious. But if you can't run a sump a canister is a fine alternative.

Sk8r · 08/01/2015, 09:03 AM

It's not a phosphate issue (that's from tapwater not sent through a ro/di filter) but a nitrate issue that can get out of hand with a canister. Fish tolerate higher nitrate than corals, but tolerate isn't necessarily good, when it gets particularly high. 10 is ok with fish. 40 is top end of tolerable. Corals are happy under 2, if that gives you an idea what the difference is between using adequate live rock, potent skimmer and no canister versus using a canister with no live rock; and I have seen nitrate hit 100 in some tanks that are having trouble, particularly with carnivores. Testing nitrate at least weekly is a good idea---test before and after a canister cleanout, so you have a notion what conditions are, and whether you need to clean more often than you do.

A skimmer is also a good thing to have to reduce amino acid buildup in the water, as predatory fish tend to produce a fair lot---and if you have a sump, there's an easy place to put it. Having a hang-on skimmer puts a pretty nasty piece of equipment on view.

ncaldwell · 08/01/2015, 10:16 AM

I love having a canister filter, but I do not use it as my main filtration. More of a water polisher, it's just a closed box with some filter floss. Simple to clean on the weekend so it's not a chore I fight having to do

gavintanouye · 08/27/2015, 07:40 PM

I too use a canister filter with a Sump with Bio Balls. Mainly use the canister for water polishing as well and for Phosguard. I also use a Reef Octopus Skimmer. I don't think there is an absolute way to Reef. There are many people that use Canisters, Sumps, Only Live Rock, HOB Filters. What is the correct answer? All these solutions in my opinion will work just some need a better maintenance schedule then others.

07/31/2015, 08:22 PM	#1
Aresangel Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Leominster MA Posts: 62	Pros and Cons of a canister filter So I have a 72 bowfront that is being set up. My local reefers group is somewhat against canisters however my LFS and myself prefer a canister for the silence and ease. The cons I have been told (without any explanation) is Canisters are phosphate breeders. I am currently using a canister filter for my 25 gallon reef tank and I love it (minus the small crash I had when I forgot to order new filter pads... for 6 months :-X) Knowing that mistake I have since added a reminder on my cell phone calendar. I feel like I would not clean the sump either (since I have a gold fish tank with a sump... and it has not been cleaned in 2 years :-0)

07/31/2015, 10:03 PM	#4
texdoc77 Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Waco, TX Posts: 417	Ah yes, the old canister debate ... I run a marineland c360 for a couple of reasons. First and foremost when I set my tank up it was not predrilled and the stand that was built for it will not accommodate a HOB set up for the drain. Also it is in the living room and a HOB drain can be a little noisy. I do NOT buy that the canisters are nitrate factories or phosphate factories any more than the DT or another sump is (even with a CUC). The maintenance IMO is not bad, but I have never run a sump so I cannot compare. I don't like that all my toys are in the DT and are not in the sump. I do not prefer to dose additives in the DT, but I have no choice. I do not run bioballs or ceramic cylinders in my canister as it is NOT my bio filter. I DO run GAC and phosguard along with filter floss and this works really really well. I can unhook my canister and dump it for a quick water change... The bottom line is you can use one in the right circumstances and many have, but I would still prefer a sump overall. This is my limited experience. However, if I had a predrilled tank, I would have a sump in a heartbeat... __________________ "The terrible thing, the almost impossible thing, is to hand over your whole self; all your wishes and precautions; to Christ." -C.S. Lewis (Mere Christianity) Current Tank Info: Currently Rebuilding

08/01/2015, 05:55 AM	#9
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Here's my take on the debate: I used a canister filter on my 60g cube because it was not drilled. It also had a dual biowheel HOB. I never had a nitrate or phosphate issue in the tank even though I cleaned the canister only every 4 - 6 weeks when I did water changes. It was set up with sponges first, then carbon, then a tray of coarse crushed coral, then more carbon, then back to the DT. Rather than it being a Nitrate or Phosphate producer, what it did create was a wonderful growing area for micro brittle stars and pods. Thousands of them over the years. They do become a bit tedious to clean, but it is only as difficult as you choose to make it. The tank was fairly lightly stocked so I'm sure that was a part of the reason for my success. I have since upgraded to a drilled 120 with a 40b as sump. The canister is now used on major cleanup days, stuffed full of polyester pillow stuffing, or, like last weekend, filled to the brim with carbon after using Flat Worm Exit, to remove the toxins. As for somebody saying it will be fine for a year or two until it causes your tank to crash? I used it on the 60g tank for 22 years, so I think that might be a bit of a stretch. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

08/01/2015, 09:03 AM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	It's not a phosphate issue (that's from tapwater not sent through a ro/di filter) but a nitrate issue that can get out of hand with a canister. Fish tolerate higher nitrate than corals, but tolerate isn't necessarily good, when it gets particularly high. 10 is ok with fish. 40 is top end of tolerable. Corals are happy under 2, if that gives you an idea what the difference is between using adequate live rock, potent skimmer and no canister versus using a canister with no live rock; and I have seen nitrate hit 100 in some tanks that are having trouble, particularly with carnivores. Testing nitrate at least weekly is a good idea---test before and after a canister cleanout, so you have a notion what conditions are, and whether you need to clean more often than you do. A skimmer is also a good thing to have to reduce amino acid buildup in the water, as predatory fish tend to produce a fair lot---and if you have a sump, there's an easy place to put it. Having a hang-on skimmer puts a pretty nasty piece of equipment on view. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 08/01/2015 at 09:08 AM.

07/31/2015, 08:30 PM	#2
Marchillo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,178	I have one on my 40G that I clean once a week. Phosphates and nitrates are not a big concern. I toss the white pad and replace it. I rinse all the other stuff in the old tank water. Id rather have a sump but I don't mind it. On my new tank I have a sump and no canister.

07/31/2015, 08:38 PM	#3
Ebone Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: wilmington nc Posts: 217	pros are .....0000 nothing.... cons are well lots of maintenance and you will survive.... not sure about the silence issue... my sump doesn't make any noise... my return makes a little hum and is loudest part of system but is in living room and not loud enough to notice... if have the option the benefits of a sump are far superior...

07/31/2015, 11:39 PM	#5
Aresangel Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Leominster MA Posts: 62	Thank you texdoc for the thoughtful reply. I cannot drill the bottom of my tank because it is tempered, and I am leering of drilling the back of the tank in fear of splitting the whole darn thing. I do like the idea of the heater, extra live rock, and everything else being out of view. I just picked up a broken 55gallon glass sump that I am going to try to seal. Before I purchase the return pump or canister I am going to research a bit more and get more peoples advice. I may hold off on a full sump for a pre-drilled tank.. Maybe after this 72 gallon my wife will let me get a 200+

08/01/2015, 04:32 AM	#6
Sapelo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: North Georgia Posts: 869	Canisters have two major downsides that sumps do not: 1. You cannot SEE what is happening inside them which makes it much easier to leave it and forget it. 2. You do not add water volume to your system the way that you do with a sump. Canisters are also, by they very design, limiting to what types of media you can add. Should you decide to use GFO, you'll need to run an entirely separate "canister." I lived with a canister for over a year and a sump is the greatest thing to ever happen to my reef keeping experience. Drill!

08/01/2015, 05:41 AM	#8
Saltliquid Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 911	Pro- solid bio filtration and once altered, far better then live rock! Con- if you do not get rid of all that is in them to have only calcium media and prefilter the hell out of the water before it enters it, then in a month to three years it will fail! Use them as your wet section with a sump!

08/01/2015, 10:16 AM	#13
ncaldwell Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 241	I love having a canister filter, but I do not use it as my main filtration. More of a water polisher, it's just a closed box with some filter floss. Simple to clean on the weekend so it's not a chore I fight having to do

08/27/2015, 07:40 PM	#14
gavintanouye Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Hilo, Hawai`i Posts: 1	I too use a canister filter with a Sump with Bio Balls. Mainly use the canister for water polishing as well and for Phosguard. I also use a Reef Octopus Skimmer. I don't think there is an absolute way to Reef. There are many people that use Canisters, Sumps, Only Live Rock, HOB Filters. What is the correct answer? All these solutions in my opinion will work just some need a better maintenance schedule then others.