Quarantine Tank Screw Up

squid row · 03/24/2020, 12:13 PM

I have an ick issue in my display tank, so I set up what I thought was a QT

I had a 20 gallon tank with a HOB Marineland filter with carbon removed, heater and lights.

Added cupramine after making sure water parameters matched my DT

Moved a flame angel with minimal signs of ick and showing no stress into the QT and after a day it as on its side and dying.

Other than showing a couple of spots on its tail it was behaving normally in the DT but I thought moving into quarantine would be a good thing. In the end I ended up killing it.

What did I do wrong or what steps did I miss?

I am going to take the QT down and start over so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Sk8r · 03/24/2020, 12:27 PM

Not all species tolerate copper. Sorry to say. Look up TTM (tank transfer). Personally, I just don't use copper. I've had terrible luck with it. TTM requires a second qt, and you just keep moving fish to the other tank, cleaning the first one, moving again, etc. I think the protocol is somewhere in the Fish Disease forum. If not, I'll find it for you.

HumbleFish · 03/24/2020, 02:33 PM

How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.

hkgar · 03/24/2020, 02:55 PM

Sadly Angels do not handle copper well. Use TTM, as mentioned, to treat all new fish. I use two 5 gallon tanks and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers.

squid row · 03/24/2020, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.

I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic

HumbleFish · 03/24/2020, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid row

I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic

If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.

squid row · 03/24/2020, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.

Thanks!

Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis

I have almost zero chance of catching any of them, but just finished emptying out and resetting up the 20 gallon for quarantine.

One item I realize now that I missed was airflow.... Got an old air pump in the garage that I will add

Sk8r · 03/24/2020, 05:23 PM

Aeration while medicating is really important. But don't put bubbles where fish are forced to swim in them. Copper can be hard on tangs, fire clowns, not sure about the others.

HumbleFish · 03/24/2020, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid row

Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis

All of those fish are good candidates for copper IME. However, I use Copper Power instead of Cupramine. I also recommend using this Hanna checker for more accurate testing: https://www.hannainst.com/hi702-copper-hr.html

When using Copper Power: You can drop the fish in at 1.0ppm, and over a period of a week gradually raise the Cu level to 2.0ppm. Leave it there for 30 days, testing often.

RBU1 · 03/25/2020, 02:22 PM

What are you using in the QT to help with ammonia? Is the tank fully cycled?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

101010 · 03/25/2020, 06:59 PM

All my attempts to treat my fish in qt had ended in failure and at times catching small fish in dt and transferring it to qt is almost impossible. So I have started feeding them with food soaked in chloroquine and found it very effective, haven't seen any problems with invertebrates as of now.

Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk

Sk8r · 03/26/2020, 02:06 AM

Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.

ThRoewer · 03/26/2020, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.

Well, in this case it is the same substance. And a number of reefers actually use the human medication for their fish. I used for example human use antibiotics to treat sick anemones.
The issue with the aquarium use chloroquine phosphate is that it is usually a loose powder of undetermined purity. And getting the dosage wrong is what gets you into the ICU or morgue, not the (possible) impurities. Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....

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ED: SK8R: The chloroquine used in the CORVID-19 trial is hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate.

HumbleFish · 03/26/2020, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....

Or if it truly was a liquid "pond cleaner" as has been suggested... some other chemical found therein might have killed him. Everything I have read about the incident lacked specific information. I, for one, would like to know what "pond cleaner" contains chloroquine and for what purpose. The only thing I can come up with is because chloroquine is a very strong algaecide.

squid row · 03/26/2020, 09:39 AM

Thanks for the tips. I used water that was in my mixing can (in other words the water i made for water changes) to set up the QT tank

Let it stand for a couple of days and added aeration

Was able to catch the two fish in my tank that are visibly showing signs of ick, the blue hippo tang and my clownfish.

Transferred them both to the QT last night after an extended acclimation period and added a lower dose of Cupramine than the bottle suggested (approx. 75%)

Today both appear to be doing fine. Tang is hiding but is eating. Clown is sucking in food as fast as I put it in!

Visibly signs of infection are down on both so i am hopeful!

Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)

HumbleFish · 03/26/2020, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid row

Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)

Raise the Cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for Cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

However, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the DT until all fish are caught, treated, and the DT itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

billdogg · 03/27/2020, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humblefish

raise the cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

however, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the dt until all fish are caught, treated, and the dt itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

x 1000

squid row · 04/01/2020, 10:52 AM

Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT

Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis.

Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM

Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively.

Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it

101010 · 04/01/2020, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid row

Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT

Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis.

Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM

Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively.

Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it

Leaving even one fish will defy the purpose of quarantining all others. Idea fish trap to catch that wrasse and let the tank go through the fallow period of 72 days.

Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk

squid row · 04/24/2020, 06:39 AM

Another update... I think I have misdiagnosed ick when it may be velvet.

Three fish have been in QT for a month now and are being treated with curpramine. Copper is .52 on the Hannah checker device.

Was thinking of returning them to the DT when noticed the blue tang (always the culprit) had some more pronounced white spots but they appeared to be below the skin somewhat. Further inspection and it looks like a whitish sheen.

The clown and chromis appear healthy

What should I do now?

squid row · 04/24/2020, 07:14 AM

A slightly better pic.. please ignore the brown patch, that is algae. Also please ignore the mess. The tank top trim leaked and made a mess before I could reseal it and I have not fully cleaned it up yet

HumbleFish · 04/24/2020, 11:56 AM

It could be something viral, or maybe a "skin rash" from copper exposure. I have noticed many times after I treat a Hippo Tang in copper that they will develop these white "lesions" which are NOT parasitic when I scrape them.

03/24/2020, 12:13 PM	#1
squid row Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 94	Quarantine Tank Screw Up I have an ick issue in my display tank, so I set up what I thought was a QT I had a 20 gallon tank with a HOB Marineland filter with carbon removed, heater and lights. Added cupramine after making sure water parameters matched my DT Moved a flame angel with minimal signs of ick and showing no stress into the QT and after a day it as on its side and dying. Other than showing a couple of spots on its tail it was behaving normally in the DT but I thought moving into quarantine would be a good thing. In the end I ended up killing it. What did I do wrong or what steps did I miss? I am going to take the QT down and start over so any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance

03/24/2020, 12:27 PM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Not all species tolerate copper. Sorry to say. Look up TTM (tank transfer). Personally, I just don't use copper. I've had terrible luck with it. TTM requires a second qt, and you just keep moving fish to the other tank, cleaning the first one, moving again, etc. I think the protocol is somewhere in the Fish Disease forum. If not, I'll find it for you. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/24/2020, 02:55 PM	#4
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Sadly Angels do not handle copper well. Use TTM, as mentioned, to treat all new fish. I use two 5 gallon tanks and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

03/24/2020, 05:23 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Aeration while medicating is really important. But don't put bubbles where fish are forced to swim in them. Copper can be hard on tangs, fire clowns, not sure about the others. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/26/2020, 02:06 AM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 03/26/2020 at 02:23 AM.

03/24/2020, 02:33 PM	#3
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.

03/25/2020, 02:22 PM	#10
RBU1 Moving on Up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Southern NJ Posts: 5,167	What are you using in the QT to help with ammonia? Is the tank fully cycled? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03/25/2020, 06:59 PM	#11
101010 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 86	All my attempts to treat my fish in qt had ended in failure and at times catching small fish in dt and transferring it to qt is almost impossible. So I have started feeding them with food soaked in chloroquine and found it very effective, haven't seen any problems with invertebrates as of now. Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk

03/26/2020, 09:39 AM	#15
squid row Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 94	Thanks for the tips. I used water that was in my mixing can (in other words the water i made for water changes) to set up the QT tank Let it stand for a couple of days and added aeration Was able to catch the two fish in my tank that are visibly showing signs of ick, the blue hippo tang and my clownfish. Transferred them both to the QT last night after an extended acclimation period and added a lower dose of Cupramine than the bottle suggested (approx. 75%) Today both appear to be doing fine. Tang is hiding but is eating. Clown is sucking in food as fast as I put it in! Visibly signs of infection are down on both so i am hopeful! Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT? Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)

04/01/2020, 10:52 AM	#18
squid row Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 94	Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis. Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively. Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it. Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it

04/24/2020, 11:56 AM	#22
HumbleFish Moved On Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4,757	It could be something viral, or maybe a "skin rash" from copper exposure. I have noticed many times after I treat a Hippo Tang in copper that they will develop these white "lesions" which are NOT parasitic when I scrape them.