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Unread 04/06/2010, 01:12 PM   #26
kyley
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Thanks Kate. Yeah, I know some people have problems with asterinas and others don't. I'm hoping I continue to not have problems... But when I start seeing issues, I'll get the guys out.

Coral pathologist looking at the zoa pox would be great! I still don't understand exactly what it is... Take care,
--Kyle


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Unread 04/19/2010, 10:43 PM   #27
kyley
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Hi Kate, have you heard more about zoa pox from any coral pathologists?

Sadly, I don't think the Furan-2 is quite getting the job done... I did my 6 dips (3 dips, then stop a few days, then 3 more dips), and all white spots were gone, but now they are again coming back So now I don't know what to do... I can keep fighting them with more dips, but I'm afraid it's in the water / sand / rock and will just continue to keep coming back! Ugh...

Charles, have you had them coming back repeatedly? I hear of people getting rid of the pox, but I don't know if they'd still say it's gone a month later? Thanks,
--Kyle


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Unread 04/20/2010, 09:35 AM   #28
650-IS350
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I dip all the frags/colonies over a course of several weeks, 1-2 dips a week then rest, continue the next week, start again... for several weeks.

If you want best results, put the polyps after dipping in a separate frag/extra tank to heal and let the Main tank afflo of polyps to risk any chance of pox ever coming back.

I've only had 1 time where the pox was NASTY to get rid of and held on for dear life, which was on my wild colonies of Deepwaters when they first started coming in... I had hundreds of polyps infected, and went through a bunch of boxes of furan. lost 1/2 at the least of the hundreds of polyps.

All the infected DWZ's were kept in a 20 gallon while they were being treated to lessen the chances of polyps in the main tank getting infected.


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Unread 04/20/2010, 09:48 AM   #29
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Thanks Charles - I'd do that if I had a separate frag tank! It's enough trouble maintaining a DT + QT (currently used as a HT for a BSJF)... I guess I kind of have done 4 weeks of treatments now - but the first two weeks were at a relatively weak strength. It's just so much work doing this 2-3 times a week. Thanks,
--Kyle


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Unread 04/20/2010, 10:37 AM   #30
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Trust me, imagine several weeks dips of a couple hundered polyps worth of colonies and frags... now that's a PITA.


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Unread 04/20/2010, 11:01 AM   #31
electrokate
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I did not get a sample to a pathologist as it appears to have disappeared.
I put the infected and most valuable specimens in a 10 with a CPR backpack skimmer, 55 watt pc light and 50 watt heater, and did the first run of dips. Some of my colonies are on 10 lb rocks or more so this was not going to work. I finally decided to follow the directions on the med and put it in the 10. Everything bleached badly, so I might lose it all anyways. But I don't see any lesions of any kind.
I left a ton of polyps in the main tank, but everything in there appears healthy. Actually had hoped some of those would die, they are all over the place. Unfortunately I do not know the incubation period, if the palythoas or some other animal is asymptomatically a carrier, or other things that would help decide when I can put these back. So they might be in the 10 a while.
Kate


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Unread 07/05/2010, 07:37 PM   #32
kyley
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Hi All,
Well I'd quit treating as the pox seemed to keep coming back but not really doing much damage. Now, months later it's done some more significant damage - killing some of the polyps off This has been no fun - lot of work to treat them... But here I go again. This time I'm going to treat 4 weeks in a row and hopefully get rid of it for good.

One question for you all - have you ever seen zoa pox affect palys? Or is it exclusive to zoanthids? I don't know the exact difference really, but I know some of mine are palys - mostly zoas though. Nothing on the palys yet that I've noticed... Take care,
--Kyle


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Unread 07/06/2010, 12:27 PM   #33
therman
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I have done some hard dips on polyps in the past. 1 packet per cup is fine up to at least an hour, and I've even had a few polyps survive overnight (accidentally) at that concentration. Overnight hits them really hard, they usually bleach but bounce back after a while.

I have not seen it completely eradicated, I still see it pop up on a few highly susceptible morphs from time to time. Usually I let it run its course now...usually doesnt kill much, just pops up on a couple of polyps and then goes away. I really think it is more symptomatic of stress rather than a particular pathogen, but I could be wrong. Going out on a limb here its almost like an immune response, looks like pus at the site of an infection.

I have not seen white spots, but I have seen stress/melting in palys while having pox on zoas. Could be the same stressor or pathogen is impacting the palys, they just dont have whatever mechanism results in the white spots.

Would be interested in hearing more discussion/hypotheses on causes. I agree that stressors seem to play a role, and I have seen the same seasonal weirdness reported by others.


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Unread 07/06/2010, 01:55 PM   #34
electrokate
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I wish it would affect my palythoas... they have become a menace.
I noticed that the infections only appeared on colonies that are tred on by cleaner shrimp. I know the shrimp pinch. Makes me wonder if they spread it. Anyone else notice this?
I have not seen it for a good while in my main tank, and it appears everything I treated recovered. I did the standard dose of furan in a 10 gallon tank instead of dips. They did all bleach, and are slowly recovering from that. I think the heater might have been set too high.
Kate


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Unread 07/06/2010, 02:07 PM   #35
kyley
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Thanks for that info therman. I wish I understood this Zoa Pox thing more. Seems the scientific community would know more about it. Personally, I've had great success with most softies (mushrooms), LPS, and even SPS in my tank - so my water quality has to be good right? NO3, PO4, etc. all 0, Alk, Ca, Mg, etc. all in great ranges; good skimmer, weekly water changes, chaeto, media reactor, etc. Yet I'm having trouble with Zoanthids and not anything else! And they're supposed to be one of the easiest corals. Sheesh...

This time around, the zoa pox is covering larger areas, is more gray, and not just "spots" - possibly even something different? Take care,
--Kyle


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Unread 07/06/2010, 02:23 PM   #36
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Hi Kate,
My cleaner shrimp does walk on some of the zoas that have zoa pox - but not the ones on the opposite end of the tank that now have them too.

Why are your palythoas a menace? Growing more than you'd like? Just curious...

How long did you keep them in the 10 gallon tank? How much Furan-2 did you use? Did you have sufficient lighting in it? Again, just curious... I just ordered 5 boxes of Furan-2 because I think it's going to take a lot of dip treatments to win this battle...

Edit: Maybe keeping them in a QT for awhile would be a good idea. If I knew more about this it would help to treat it better. i.e. is it something in the water that would die off if there are no zoas for it to grow on? If so, I could put them in a QT for awhile until it "dies off" in the DT. Just like you would do with Ich... Take care,
--Kyle


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Unread 07/06/2010, 02:23 PM   #37
kyley
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Browser messed up - accidental double-post...
--Kyle


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Unread 07/19/2010, 11:29 PM   #38
kyley
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Deleted - new thread instead. Thanks,
--Kyle



Last edited by kyley; 07/19/2010 at 11:43 PM.
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Unread 09/27/2010, 01:49 PM   #39
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Why does the water need to be newly mixed instead of just using water from the DT?


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Unread 09/27/2010, 07:00 PM   #40
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Never mind, I just saw that you can use DT water. Anyone having problems with the Furan not dissolving in the water?


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Unread 09/27/2010, 09:17 PM   #41
kyley
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Yeah, I've just used the DT water. Think I've finally gotten rid of zoa pox for good (knock on wood) though it took many treatments. Take care,
--Kyle


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Unread 09/28/2010, 10:29 AM   #42
electrokate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyley View Post
Why are your palythoas a menace? Growing more than you'd like? Just curious...

How long did you keep them in the 10 gallon tank? How much Furan-2 did you use? Did you have sufficient lighting in it? Again, just curious... I just ordered 5 boxes of Furan-2 because I think it's going to take a lot of dip treatments to win this battle...

--Kyle
Hi,
The palythoa are just spreading like mad. Even the people eaters, they can be a pain too. Zoa pox may be killing the blue ones actually. Either that or the furan did. The blue ones exposed to furan bleached and have not recovered, the ones not treated are as usual growing like mad. Hmm. Maybe I should use furan to get rid of palythoas... (:

Furan is a pretty nasty carcinogen so if this comes up again I am going to try any other broad spectrum antibiotic. And yeah it's hard to dissolve.

I just followed the directions on the packets when I used it, I think it was 1 packet per 10 gallons repeated every other day with water change? Don't remember. Think I did it for one or two sessions longer than recommended. The water may have been too warm, and I took that tank down so don't remember what the lighting was, likely was a Tru 50/50 55 or 65 watt pc bulb. I left them in the treatment tank for months to be safe. Some of the zoas still have not recovered, I don't think heat would put them out for this long but I don't know. The other corals on their rocks bleached at the same time-a duncan and some mushrooms. The duncan recovered quickly when returned to the main tank but the zoas on it's skeleton did not. The mushrooms are still pale and small.

The bleached zoas only color up when in full shade, which is odd. They never had a problem with the lighting before, were growing like mad. Maybe the furan pushed them over the edge. I have 5 T5HO bulbs over a 120, it's 48x24x24. Most people consider the lighting inadequate. On the 55 it's 2 T5HO bulbs.
Thanks,
Kate


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Unread 09/28/2010, 10:34 AM   #43
CLINTOS
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when I treated my zoapox I used new rodi water in which I matched the DT salinity and 1 capsule for every 1 cup

then followed the direction's from the zoapox article

did a lot of amputation's and thrown out questionable zoa's prior to treating.

also used DT water in a 15 min light tea colored iodine dip right after the furan dip then rinsed in DT water on the side.

reduced the light cycle and brightness.

found out that it was high temp during the day and low at night that caused it.



Last edited by CLINTOS; 09/28/2010 at 10:41 AM.
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Unread 09/30/2010, 10:45 AM   #44
electrokate
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Did you zoas recover? Did they bleach first?

That is interesting about the temperature swings, and suspect it was temp swings in the treatment tank that bleached mine. I am assuming you mean that you had temp swings in your display.

I did a few dips prior to giving up on the protocol and just treating them in tank, used water from their tank with the med followed by a rinse in a bucket with some tank water, and then topped the tank off with new water. Part of my reason to not follow the directions in the article was the size of the colonies would have meant using a bucket of at least 5 gallons (and a fortune in drugs), part of it was presence of sponges on their rocks which would be killed by repeated air exposure, and part was the prospect of returning the colonies to a tank that might gave the pathogen in its water.

I think either approach is fine, but would like to see a test of alternative antibiotics. Hoping to NOT have this opportunity myself (: Unless it's because hobbyists send me their sick colonies to play with... I don't ever want to deal with this again.
Kate


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Unread 03/11/2017, 11:06 AM   #45
BlueRoofTang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyley View Post
Hi Kate,
Do they really eat your polyps? I have asterina stars all over my tank (several different types), but I haven't noticed any damage to my zoas... Hopefully I'm just lucky and mine don't like zoas - b/c I like the asterinas! I did my third dip last night and all looks well - but I can't really tell that the white spots are going away yet...

--Kyle
I used to have hundreds of them. I thought they were fine. A friend told me they would eat zoas and I didn't believe it, but kept watching. I finally began linking things together. Once you see one of these asterinas on top of a polyp, wrapped down on the sides of it, basically engulfing the head of a closed polyp, and the polyp never opens again.....several times, you begin to see the link between the death of a zoa and the star. I now pluck out every one I see.


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Unread 03/11/2017, 11:30 AM   #46
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I think I may have some zoas with pox. I want to use Furan-2, but bought it in powder form, not in "packets." The package says one tsp per 30 gallons, but I don't want to treat the whole tank. I want to make a dip.

I need about 4 cups of dip. How can I measure this out? I have some of the little spoons from the salifert test kits that I could use to measure some out, but don't know how much they hold or how much I need.


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