Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > More Forums > Reef Club Forums > NorthEast Region-Reef Club Forums > Upstate Reef Society
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 07/20/2008, 08:09 AM   #1
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC Member
 
Gary Majchrzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 41,314
Post fresh air from outdoors to raise pH

a dwelling sealed up with people inside will drop aquarium pH due to increased CO2 levels. There was a thread a few weeks ago regarding running skimmer air lines to the outside in order to raise aquarium pH. How many folks have tried this and what were/are your results- is your aquarium running at a noticeably higher pH?
We have a houseload of people right now and my pH is running lower than normal. I just hooked up my skimmer airline to the outside and pH immediatly jumped from 7.14 to 7.16, but it might be due to the aquarium lights turning on. I don't know if the fresh air is having any effect- maybe it's too soon to tell.


__________________
over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems
*see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB* GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF

Current Tank Info: 72x24x30 225 gallon reef aquarium called Junior's Reef. April '06 and July 2013 TOTM
Gary Majchrzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 10:28 AM   #2
jimmer
Registered Member
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: hilton ny
Posts: 1,873
alot of these posts pop up durring winter when house is all sealed up.i used to do have to do it as my tank was in basement.


__________________
stupid people shouldn't breed

Current Tank Info: 75 gallon with stupid goldfish
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 11:20 AM   #3
oceanparadise1
Moved On
 
oceanparadise1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 2,926
My tank is infront of two windoes that are always open, and my ph never drops below 8


oceanparadise1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 11:45 AM   #4
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC Member
 
Gary Majchrzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 41,314
let's pretend open windows aren't an option


__________________
over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems
*see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB* GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF

Current Tank Info: 72x24x30 225 gallon reef aquarium called Junior's Reef. April '06 and July 2013 TOTM
Gary Majchrzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 11:53 AM   #5
gandolf8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fulton, NY
Posts: 1,105
i run an air line outside and hook it to my skimmer works for me


gandolf8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 11:59 AM   #6
oceanparadise1
Moved On
 
oceanparadise1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 2,926
Lol, opps my mistake, just thought it would help LOL


oceanparadise1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 02:41 PM   #7
acdraindrps
Registered Member
 
acdraindrps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: buffalo, ny
Posts: 2,275
Tom tried this.

I wonder how well it would work to get a compressed air bottle filled with oxygen and have it regulated directly into your skimmer venturi? Seems like overkill, but so does running pipe to the outside.


acdraindrps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 04:28 PM   #8
jansenwrasse
Registered Member
 
jansenwrasse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Irondequoit, New York
Posts: 1,043
Quote:
Originally posted by acdraindrps
Tom tried this.

I wonder how well it would work to get a compressed air bottle filled with oxygen and have it regulated directly into your skimmer venturi? Seems like overkill, but so does running pipe to the outside.
The same company that makes mapp, and propane for torches also make oxygen(not pure but good for our purposes). You could set up some kind of a system that would give a constant stream of O2 into the skimmer via tubing. Just be careful not to use it anywhere near a flame. If you ran such a system for a few minutes and used a pH probe at the outlet of the skimmer to measure effect you should see a dramatic impact with in a minute or sooner (skimmer size dependant).

I have pH issues and have been using out door air for a couple of months with great results. I am worried about the winter time though.


__________________
"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein

Current Tank Info: I am allergic to seafood ... yup its that bad epi pen and all so I cant have a tank.
jansenwrasse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 04:30 PM   #9
josh.vince
Premium Member
 
josh.vince's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 506
you keep 2 windows open and the A/C running?



Quote:
Originally posted by oceanparadise1
My tank is infront of two windoes that are always open, and my ph never drops below 8



josh.vince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 06:05 PM   #10
jansenwrasse
Registered Member
 
jansenwrasse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Irondequoit, New York
Posts: 1,043
Gary if you are using a pH probe it may be time for a calibration also, just a thought If you use Kalk maybe take a sample of it and test the pH to see what you get
**EDIT**
Check out this link this guy has had decent results
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1433717


__________________
"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein

Current Tank Info: I am allergic to seafood ... yup its that bad epi pen and all so I cant have a tank.

Last edited by jansenwrasse; 07/20/2008 at 06:11 PM.
jansenwrasse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 07:48 PM   #11
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC Member
 
Gary Majchrzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 41,314
thanx for the link.
my probe has been calibrated very recently and it does register the high pH of kalkwasser properly. Maybe I need to give the fresh air more time to raise pH of the entire system.


__________________
over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems
*see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB* GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF

Current Tank Info: 72x24x30 225 gallon reef aquarium called Junior's Reef. April '06 and July 2013 TOTM
Gary Majchrzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 08:49 PM   #12
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,579
Hi Gary,
I have the luxury of having my sump in the basement,so it was easy to run an airline to the basment window and rig a piece of stiff insulation with a piece of screen to cover the opening in the galss block window and provide a screened air input for the tubing. In a DIY mood and with 20 minutes to spare, I tried it. Eventhough I wasn't sure I had a CO2 problem in the house.

My skimmer did not bubble well defeating the whole purpose by reducing the skimmer's oxygenation, probably because of the 10 foot length of small tubing.I could fix this by running a one inch or so pipe and reducing it down at th skimmer but I never did and just started dosing kalk instead with much better results.

If I were going to try this again, I would do the outside aeration test first to discern wether or not I have aCO2 problem in the house. As you probably know, you aerate some tank water and test the ph inside,then take some tank water outside , aerate it and test the ph. If there is a significantly higher ph outside then it might be wothwhile to hook the skimmer to an outside line.

Those numbers 7.14 don't seem at all right and are probalby related to a testing issue.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 08:53 PM   #13
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,579
FWIW, those probes and the monitor itself can be very sensitive to any electrical interference at the outlet or in the water. They even react when the cord is in close proximity to other wires particularly ballst and wave makers.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/20/2008, 09:14 PM   #14
Kent E
One Millionth Poster
 
Kent E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Honeoye NY
Posts: 4,272
Every time I close up the house and run the air-conditioner the ph drops. It's predictable. It was worse while running a calcium reactor. I haven't seen deleterious effects though. I pump in extra kalk and the levels are bumped slightly but by then the heat wave ends and the window get opened and ph rises. Alls good.

I guess a real simple solution is to crack a few windows, but of course that lets in some uncomfortable humidity.


__________________
1000 gallon
Kent E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 06:55 AM   #15
Kent E
One Millionth Poster
 
Kent E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Honeoye NY
Posts: 4,272
Last night we opened the windows and the ph went from 7.98 to 8.19 with out any other changes.


__________________
1000 gallon
Kent E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 09:13 AM   #16
jansenwrasse
Registered Member
 
jansenwrasse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Irondequoit, New York
Posts: 1,043
Gary this is a really good link to give insite into CO2 and its effects on seawater.

http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/oceans/co2...ml#co2sysinsea


__________________
"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein

Current Tank Info: I am allergic to seafood ... yup its that bad epi pen and all so I cant have a tank.
jansenwrasse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 11:46 AM   #17
chrisqueenz
Registered Member
 
chrisqueenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rochester New York, USA
Posts: 2,037
Would anyone know if extending the tube hinder the ability to suction air the way it would at normal length?

It would be good for me to run outside also due to the noise level my suction tube makes from my skimmer.


chrisqueenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 01:00 PM   #18
SkiFletch
Registered Member
 
SkiFletch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: N Buffalo, NY
Posts: 3,666
Quote:
Originally posted by Kent E
Every time I close up the house and run the air-conditioner the ph drops. It's predictable. It was worse while running a calcium reactor. I haven't seen deleterious effects though. I pump in extra kalk and the levels are bumped slightly but by then the heat wave ends and the window get opened and ph rises. Alls good.

I guess a real simple solution is to crack a few windows, but of course that lets in some uncomfortable humidity.
EMF is a *itch huh Tom?

Also for those of you considering dosing O2 straight to your tank via the skimmer remember that 100% O2 is probably as corrosive as a 50mg/hr Ozone addition. So you will over time notice deterioration of the tubing and perhaps the acrylic in your skimmer if you do this... And as mentioned, Pure (or near enough pure) O2 is not something to be trifled with. An Oxygen fire is the worst thing ever, don't want that much fuel in your house going up real quick due to careless handling of it.

Personally, I agree with Tom that adding O2 directly to the tank is unfortunately not a good solution for driving out CO2. Ultimately calcium hydroxide scrubbing (kalkwasser) addition is the easiest measure by far of defeating ambient CO2. Using Outside air can work, but as Tom found, you can't just use long airline tubing as the pressure drop will be too much, gotta get a big tube to the tank then reduce it down just before introduction to the skimmer.


__________________
You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take.
Dare to dream
Mike, aka Fletch

Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef
SkiFletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 05:30 PM   #19
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC Member
 
Gary Majchrzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 41,314
long airline tubing doesn't have a noticeable effect on air intake in my case. I'm using 25ft. of 3/8" ID rigid flex tubing on my Beckett skimmer and it hasn't (noticeably) effected skimmer performance. The true test would be to hook up something like an airflow meter to measure airflow but I don't have one of those things. The next step is to design some type of aircleaner/filter for the air intake. Right now the only thing filtering my outside air is some nylon window screen.


__________________
over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems
*see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB* GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF

Current Tank Info: 72x24x30 225 gallon reef aquarium called Junior's Reef. April '06 and July 2013 TOTM
Gary Majchrzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 06:00 PM   #20
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
 
Conesus_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Conesus, NY
Posts: 3,899
Any noticeable increase in pH?


__________________
Scott

Friends don't give friends Kenya tree...
Conesus_Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 06:15 PM   #21
glh156
Premium Member
 
glh156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fairport Ny
Posts: 72
LOL - I also did this about a month ago, I did see small raise in my ph and I liked the idea of introducing fresh air in the reef tank system anyways…


__________________
Member: 8+yrs Reefing, URS of NY, Lifreef CA Reactor, Neptune Apex pro +Power bar+DC8+1 DC4+AquaSurf+Lunar Simulator(5) and 65 Gal + 40 Gal custom frag table.
Note - Although I don't post a lot, I've been doing the REEF gig for a long time, so don't let the post count fool you.. :)

Current Tank Info: 65 gal Reef
glh156 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/22/2008, 08:05 PM   #22
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,579
I like the idea of fresh air for the system paricularly since mine is in the basement near the workshop but how fresh is it? I'd have some concerns about where to put the intake, certainly not near areas where I might in a numb brained state spray weeds or bugs.

Gary, maybe th beckett venturi responds to air pressure changes in a less sensitive way(sucks harder) than the asm needle wheel set up.With the asm there was a definate fall of in bubble production. The hose I used was also 3/8 inches.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/23/2008, 07:37 AM   #23
SkiFletch
Registered Member
 
SkiFletch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: N Buffalo, NY
Posts: 3,666
Gary, the pressure drop in 3/8" tubing is SIGNIFICANTLY lower over longer lengths than typical airline tubing of 3/16" or 1/4" diameter. The relationship of tube ID to pressure drop (per foot) is NOT linear. Its something more like logrithmic or exponential. So as your diameter gets smaller, the pressure drop will increase drastically. 3/8" is right around the "breaking point" for air at moderate flowrates, so it doesn't surprise me that this has worked well for you


__________________
You will miss 100% of the shots you dont take.
Dare to dream
Mike, aka Fletch

Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef
SkiFletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/23/2008, 06:14 PM   #24
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC Member
 
Gary Majchrzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 41,314
I think we're all in agreement here- in fact, I was wondering what kind of effect a 25' 3/8" diameter hose would have on a needlewheel skimmer and Tom just answered that

My Beckett sucks hard. She's like an old 396 V8... raw muscle! There's no doubt it's working close to optimal. Maybe someday I'll get an airflow meter on 'er and find out exactly what type of pressure drop I'm getting from the long intake hose.
Without tweaking my pH probe I've gone from 7.14 to 7.63 but there are several other variables involved- four houseguests have left and I did a water change.
The bottom line is everything in the aquarium is looking better now and I don't have to entertain in-laws



__________________
over 24 years experience with multiple types of marine aquarium systems
*see Upstate Reef Society Forum on RC and FB* GOOGLE JUNIOR'S REEF

Current Tank Info: 72x24x30 225 gallon reef aquarium called Junior's Reef. April '06 and July 2013 TOTM
Gary Majchrzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/23/2008, 08:03 PM   #25
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,579
Sounds like a good day Gary. iIstill think your ph numbers are low especially since you are dosing kalk.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:54 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014