Not All CREE LEDs are the same...Must See

[ReefLEDLights]

Not all XP-G Cool Whites are the same. Here is a Pic of our Tank with two different Bins of Cree XP-G Cool White from our domestic supplier.



Spectrum Matters, at RLL we only consider the best of the batch of each type of LED from Royal Blue to Cool white paired with the best quality star to earn the name Premium. They are harder to source but for an estimated 11 year lifecycle over your tank, we think its worth the effort.

Bill

[SkullV]

In your professional opinion do you feel that the diodes in the EcoTech Radion and AI SOL/Pheonix would pass the RLL Premium LED test or are they less selective on their BINs?

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by SkullV

In your professional opinion do you feel that the diodes in the EcoTech Radion and AI SOL/Pheonix would pass the RLL Premium LED test or are they less selective on their BINs?

Radion we were unable to get an answer about some specifics with their fixture and AI we did. AI does observe for chromacity but they do not specify their bins when they build their fixtures.

[Bellagio]

When you will choose correct bins - you will get white colour as you want - a specially from bin 0D0.
For me - on the right there is warm white - on the left - cool white. This diffrence is to high for Coolwhite(diffrent bin/tint)

Bellagio

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Bellagio

For me - on the right there is warm white - on the left - cool white. This diffrence is to high for Coolwhite(diffrent bin/tint)

Bellagio

“Photography is truth.”

- Jean Luc Godard

Both test fixtures are Cool White XPG's
It's the reason we don't carry warm whites as cool whites are yellow enough on their own.

[Bellagio]

Can you tell me - which Bin/TINT is on the left - and which one is on the right?
I will buy the same bins - and will do the same comparision.
You should know that if you was the person who did this photo/leds comparision.
I will wait for your reply.

Regards

Bellagio

[Bellagio]

Can you tell me - which Bin/TINT is on the left - and which one is on the right?
I will buy the same bins - and will do the same comparision.
You should know that if you was the person who did this photo/leds comparision.
I will wait for your reply.

Regards

Bellagio

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Bellagio

Can you tell me - which Bin/TINT is on the left - and which one is on the right?
I will buy the same bins - and will do the same comparision.
You should know that if you was the person who did this photo/leds comparision.
I will wait for your reply.

Regards

Bellagio

0C R5 & 3A R5



The Photo was taken with a Nikon D200 Speed 40 F4.5 & WB 6300K over my personal mixed reef.

The only thing Photo-Shopped was our Logo, Premium & Regular.

Also the LEDs were from this optics test and layed directly on the acrylic tank.

Bill

[SkullV]

From EcoTech about Radion:

Originally Posted by EcoTech Marine

You are correct to point out the bin selected for an LED product affects the overall quality of the light. LED bins are arranged to ensure quality and consistent intensity and color. As with any EcoTech Marine product we only specify the highest quality parts that can be sourced reliably. Being that this is a high end LED fixture we made sure that the LEDs chosen were representative of the quality and performance that our customers expect and deserve.

[ReefLEDLights]

SkullV

EcoTech does produce some good products. We asked the Bin question at MACNA and the rep did not have a specific answer. I'm sure they accept a range acceptable Bins and reject the ones that are not. Most quality manufacturers do this as they do not want to limit themselves to a single Bin.

The nice thing about DIY is you can take complete control of your light and choose a specific Bin like 0C R5 or 0A R5 instead of the warmer 3A R5.

Bill

[Mike31154]

I don't see why a warmer white LED of the same color 'range' would be termed "Regular" while a cooler white one would be "Premium". Sure we look for cooler whites in our hobby, but just because there's a range in certain BINs , doesn't mean the diodes at one end of the spectrum are a lower quality than the others. I'd say it depends entirely on their intended use. The diodes on the right would probably be considered desirable or premium for home lighting.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Mike31154

I don't see why a warmer white LED of the same color 'range' would be termed "Regular" while a cooler white one would be "Premium". Sure we look for cooler whites in our hobby, but just because there's a range in certain BINs , doesn't mean the diodes at one end of the spectrum are a lower quality than the others. I'd say it depends entirely on their intended use. The diodes on the right would probably be considered desirable or premium for home lighting.

There are actually a few different factors that we use to classify premium and regulars on our site.

Regular LEDs to us is what all of our competition carries which is nonspecified batches of LEDs. So pretty much whatever is cheapest that week. What you buy one week will differ than what you purchase next week all dependent on whats available from the distributors.

And the diodes do have different quality. The premium puts out 15% more light than the regulars.

The stars they are mounted on also conduct heat 15% more efficiently at minimum.

Premiums also are harder to get our hands on and of course, come with a premium price We are always trying to get them to drop the price on them but part of the price increase comes from Cree.



We had quite a bit of research go into this to make sure we gave customers the best options and land bins that lean torwards being tinted blue instead of Green, purple, orange, etc. etc.
Hope this helps clarify why we have different standards for each

[Mike31154]

Thank you, that does provide a somewhat better picture of what constitutes premium vs regular. Just seemed that the photo is almost bashing the warmer white and I've actually been reading lately that some red spectrum may be beneficial to certain livestock, so the trend towards exclusively cool white & blue LEDs blends in our hobby may benefit from some modification for certain applications. Such as using warmer white as one of the blends.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Mike31154

Thank you, that does provide a somewhat better picture of what constitutes premium vs regular. Just seemed that the photo is almost bashing the warmer white and I've actually been reading lately that some red spectrum may be beneficial to certain livestock, so the trend towards exclusively cool white & blue LEDs blends in our hobby may benefit from some modification for certain applications. Such as using warmer white as one of the blends.

Using a warmer Cool White or adding some Reds is not a bad idea. Our "High Noon" Bins of XP-G and XM-L are a bit warmer (5.5-6K) than the Premium Cool White (7.5-8K). Personally I don't like using Warms or Neutral whites as they can be too yellow and may promote nuisance algae. If you want to cover the 660nM spectrum, Red is a better looking more efficient option.

I have my High Noon on for 4 Hours with a 2 hour ramp up and down.

Bill

[Th3Mast3rR33f3r]

Originally Posted by ReefLEDLights

Not all XP-G Cool Whites are the same. Here is a Pic of our Tank with two different Bins of Cree XP-G Cool White from our domestic supplier.



Spectrum Matters, at RLL we only consider the best of the batch of each type of LED from Royal Blue to Cool white paired with the best quality star to earn the name Premium. They are harder to source but for an estimated 11 year lifecycle over your tank, we think its worth the effort.

Bill

Showing a picture like that seems just a bit foolish. I think your just trying to increase business at your website. Thoughs are obviously not cool white lol! Well I ain't falling for it. I don't think a company that has a rep for making the very best LEDs on the market is making garbage as you display it. If so, Cree has no business making LEDs If they make a product with that much variability. The example you have posted is horrible and I believe it's a selling gimmick with you obviously as the beneficiary by setting up a strawman.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Th3Mast3rR33f3r

Showing a picture like that seems just a bit foolish. I think your just trying to increase business at your website. Thoughs are obviously not cool white lol! Well I ain't falling for it.

That's why we posted up the information on which LEDs were used and what the camera settings were.

That way ANYONE can replicate our test with the same results.

We don't make sales, we earn them. We earned them with our extensive testing and spectrum analysis over reef tanks. Everything we did was then backed up by reputable reefers as well as photographed to show success. We have no need to misinterpret the facts and wouldn't dare. Most of our friends are veteran reefers and most of you we anticipate meeting in person at local frag swaps. So before you make assumptions please replicate the test, because you know what they say happens when you, "assume"

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Th3Mast3rR33f3r

Showing a picture like that seems just a bit foolish. I think your just trying to increase business at your website. Thoughs are obviously not cool white lol! Well I ain't falling for it. I don't think a company that has a rep for making the very best LEDs on the market is making garbage as you display it. If so, Cree has no business making LEDs If they make a product with that much variability. The example you have posted is horrible and I believe it's a selling gimmick with you obviously as the beneficiary by setting up a strawman.

Please check post 8 to see Cree's sheet on the different bins of "cool whites" they produce. It clearly shows their colour variations between bins they make. You can also find this chart direct on their website.

[Th3Mast3rR33f3r]

Originally Posted by ReefLEDLights

Please check post 8 to see Cree's sheet on the different bins of "cool whites" they produce. It clearly shows their colour variations between bins they make. You can also find this chart direct on their website.

Or you just plain have a bad source that is selling you counterfeit leds. The LEDs you show on the right are 3000k at best i would say. No where near 5000k which appears to be the lowest your chart displays.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Th3Mast3rR33f3r

Or you just plain have a bad source that is selling you counterfeit leds

Here's the direct link to cree's color charts.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr.../XLampXPBL.pdf

Unless you think that's a counterfeit site Info straight from Cree.

[Th3Mast3rR33f3r]

Originally Posted by ReefLEDLights

Here's the direct link to cree's color charts.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr.../XLampXPBL.pdf

Unless you think that's a counterfeit site Info straight from Cree.

Thanks for the link. In that PDF (from what I see) they are making no claims that there so called "cool white" LEDs will ever be classified as "cool white" when they are in the 3000k range like the ones you display on the right. (how could they)?

The link exposes your absurd claims actually.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Th3Mast3rR33f3r

Thanks for the link. In that PDF (from what I see) they are making no claims that there so called "cool white" LEDs will ever be classified as "cool white" when they are in the 3000k range like the ones you display on the right. (how could they)?

The link exposes your absurd claims actually.

until you actually perform the test your just trolling at this point. We performed this test as scientist with recorded results that anyone can duplicate. For as large as we are do you really think a company would risk their name/reputation????

Keep reading the PDF Cree made. Your answers are there.

[Th3Mast3rR33f3r]

Originally Posted by ReefLEDLights

until you actually perform the test your just trolling at this point. We performed this test as scientist with recorded results that anyone can duplicate. For as large as we are do you really think a company would risk their name/reputation????

Keep reading the PDF Cree made. Your answers are there.

"Yep were dumb and your smart so take my word for it." That's a great way to "earn business" mr. Scientist. As for your test, you are correct. All anyone has to do to replicate it, is take a cool white and put it up against a warm white as you show in your picture.

[ReefLEDLights]

Originally Posted by Th3Mast3rR33f3r

"Yep were dumb and your smart so take my word for it." That's a great way to "earn business" mr. Scientist. As for your test, you are correct. All anyone has to do to replicate it, is take a cool white and put it up against a warm white as you show in your picture.

When did we say that? We earned the business because our customer base is educated on LEDs and knows that the bins we carry are top shelf and we pride ourselves of going the extra mile to provide them with such. We cited the components used in the test for exact replication. What you are describing is changing the test to yield SIMILAR results.

To achieve the same results as pictured above would require two Cree cool white LEDs.
To achieve the same coloration as the left side of the tank you would use the Cree Cool White LED BIN: 0C R5
To achieve the same coloration as the right side of the tank you would use the Cree Cool White LED BIN: 3A R5

The Camera settings used, Speed 40 F4.5 & WB 6300K and were taken on a Nikon D200

Now I found a picture that can help you understand what happens with color tinting at different bins, prōtēəm was good enough to overlay a bin chart with a chromaticity chart to produce the following

http://www.flickr.com/photos/protium...57622876024520

This shows that the 0C bin has a blue tint (whiter) while the 3a has a yellower tint

Here's information on chromaticity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_1931_color_space
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chromaticity