In-wall 380gal tank - cut out options - Page 7

karimwassef · 01/27/2013, 01:56 PM

I am using us composites 2:1 (I'll post a pic). It is VERY slow curing. With 4 layers on each of 5 sides and 7 joints... It's a month (or two) of curing time but I'm in no rush.

woodnaquanut · 01/27/2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavoisier

Where are you getting your thorite? The only source I could find was internet:
Emaco GP, Fast Setting Waterproof Repair Mortar (50lb)
EMACO-GP
$55.00 SALE $43.95

and shipping was another $40!

I'm not the OP but perhaps I can help?

You can get smaller quantities of Emaco from Marco Rocks. Look in the 'Aquascaping supplies'. Free shipping.

Make sure you mix up small quantities. They don't lie when its called 'fast setting'!

woodnaquanut · 01/27/2013, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnaquanut

I'm not the OP but perhaps I can help?

You can get smaller quantities of Emaco from Marco Rocks. Look in the 'Aquascaping supplies'. Free shipping.

Make sure you mix up small quantities. They don't lie when its called 'fast setting'!

Oh No, Quoting my own message!

I forgot to add, it should be available at 'White Cap'. There is a store close to you in Kansas City, MO. They'd have the 50 lb. bag if you need a lot. They might have to order it.

karimwassef · 01/28/2013, 12:35 AM

Thoroseal is available online. Has anyone used that?
I don't need it but others may be able to use it.

mpcart · 03/11/2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimwassef

Ok. So it was too messy creating my return flow and reef structure using software. So I decided to create an 8:1 scale model of my tank and then use pipe cleaners and modeling clay. I Chose 8:1 so the 1/8th inch acrylic would be close.

I'm coming to this thread a little late . . . but building a scale model of your tank with pipe cleaners and modeling clay is awesome. You are my new "build thread" hero!

Keep up the great work. I'll be following along.

-Mike

karimwassef · 03/11/2013, 05:25 PM

Thanks. I've made some progress since then. Just need to upload the pictures.

Nice "buzz" image, btw. I'm a GT alumn too.

karimwassef · 05/27/2013, 09:57 PM

ok. I've run into a bit of a snag. I have a BA overflow but the main siphon won't start when I test a power outage.

I have two failsafes so no flood, but the water level doesn't come back down and the main siphon remains filled with a giant airbubble.

All the drain lines are 2" PVC. The pump is pushing ~5000-6000gph and once the main 2" siphon is activated, it can drain all that flow and more... it'll run the overflow dry if the valve is fully opened.

When I test a power outage, the main siphon pulls almost all the water in the overflow down to the sump. The main returns both run to their siphon breaks. Now, There is a giant airbubble in the main siphon that starts in the overflow and fills the 2" pipe down to the water level in the sump (drain end is about 1" below sump water level).

When I restart the pump, the backups all go to work, but the main siphon is air-blocked. The water level can rise (if I close the other drains) 3" over the main siphon's intake and still air-blocked.

I have to turn the pump OFF... then the siphon starts and if I restart the pump just before the overflow runs dry, I can get it all restarted.

Clearly, this won't work in case of a real power outage.

What's wrong?

karimwassef · 05/27/2013, 10:02 PM

I am going to drill and run a 1/4" airline to the main pump intake to hopefully get the airbubble moving a little and kickstart the siphon. I didn't want to go there, but it is A possible solution.

Lavoisier · 05/28/2013, 08:02 AM

I think I've seen Uncle mention that if the main drain is more than an inch below water level in the sump then the siphon can fail. I'm not sure how to correct that situation if the sump water level rises due to a power failure but have wondered about this in the past. I look forward to seeing the resolution.

kmellon · 05/28/2013, 08:44 AM

Really impressive set up. I can't wait to see the completion.

woodnaquanut · 05/28/2013, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavoisier

I think I've seen Uncle mention that if the main drain is more than an inch below water level in the sump then the siphon can fail. I'm not sure how to correct that situation if the sump water level rises due to a power failure but have wondered about this in the past. I look forward to seeing the resolution.

When the power is off, sump level rises. When power is back on, sump level drops as it's pumped back to DT. Level should be at just about normal run levels when overflow starts.

If Main is 1" below sump at normal run time, when overflow starts the Main will be not to deep and a siphon will start.

Back to karimwassef's tank...

How deep is the Main overflow in the sump at normal run time?

karimwassef · 05/28/2013, 09:02 PM

The main is 1" below water level at normal run and power off. The reservoir in the third stage of the sump absorbs the excess.

karimwassef · 05/28/2013, 09:34 PM

karimwassef · 05/28/2013, 09:37 PM

The left drain is the main siphon. The right is the low flow drain. There are two emergency drains at the other end if the overflow weir. The rings at the end are cut unions I used to adjust the outlet depth by 0.5" (makes no difference).

karimwassef · 05/29/2013, 10:39 PM

Any ideas?

Lavoisier · 05/30/2013, 05:48 AM

Hi Karim, It is hard to tell from the angle of the picture but is it possible that you have a horizontal run of pipe under the tank into the sump. Can you try a 45 rather than the 90 sweep?

I like your sump!

Regards

karimwassef · 05/30/2013, 08:54 PM

DIY plywood epoxy and acrylic sump... Took a little time

There is a 10" run going from the vertical pipe to the sump opening, but how else do I get to the sump?

I don't have clearance for a 45degree but I'll try some bends to see if it helps

karimwassef · 05/30/2013, 11:47 PM

It worked... Not a big change but enough to start the siphon.

karimwassef · 05/31/2013, 12:13 AM

Thanks Lavoisier

Lavoisier · 05/31/2013, 03:52 PM

Ingenious! I actually would never have thought of a series of elbows. Well done. I'm looking forward to a video of your surges.

karimwassef · 05/31/2013, 09:33 PM

The surge should be in testing by the end of June but the DIY diverter has been running for months now:

There are two returns: one on each far end of the tank. Bottom left and upper right.

karimwassef · 05/31/2013, 09:36 PM

I pulled the siphon breaks over the water level to show the flow changing... That's the source of the bubbles in the second video. It's bubble free in normal operation.

karimwassef · 06/02/2013, 09:58 PM

keep in mind the video is only showing the siphon break leakage water. The main flow is through the large 2" outlets underwater.

Lavoisier · 06/03/2013, 08:39 AM

Super DIY project. Your engineering skills are quite apparent.

karimwassef · 07/06/2013, 09:27 AM

Ok. The surge is back on track and I've gotten some local help.

I also got an Apex Controller and it is awesome. Here's where things stand as of today (been months in the making):

photo 9b588396-01fa-489f-8048-8935a5fc47fc_zpsab64510f.jpg

05/28/2013, 08:02 AM	#159
Lavoisier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 1,030	I think I've seen Uncle mention that if the main drain is more than an inch below water level in the sump then the siphon can fail. I'm not sure how to correct that situation if the sump water level rises due to a power failure but have wondered about this in the past. I look forward to seeing the resolution. __________________ "...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus. Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s

05/30/2013, 05:48 AM	#166
Lavoisier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 1,030	Hi Karim, It is hard to tell from the angle of the picture but is it possible that you have a horizontal run of pipe under the tank into the sump. Can you try a 45 rather than the 90 sweep? I like your sump! Regards __________________ "...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus. Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s

05/31/2013, 03:52 PM	#170
Lavoisier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 1,030	Ingenious! I actually would never have thought of a series of elbows. Well done. I'm looking forward to a video of your surges. __________________ "...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus. Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s

05/31/2013, 09:36 PM	#172
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	I pulled the siphon breaks over the water level to show the flow changing... That's the source of the bubbles in the second video. It's bubble free in normal operation. Last edited by karimwassef; 05/31/2013 at 10:07 PM.

06/03/2013, 08:39 AM	#174
Lavoisier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 1,030	Super DIY project. Your engineering skills are quite apparent. __________________ "...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus. Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s

01/27/2013, 01:56 PM	#151
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	I am using us composites 2:1 (I'll post a pic). It is VERY slow curing. With 4 layers on each of 5 sides and 7 joints... It's a month (or two) of curing time but I'm in no rush.

01/28/2013, 12:35 AM	#154
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Thoroseal is available online. Has anyone used that? I don't need it but others may be able to use it.

03/11/2013, 05:25 PM	#156
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Thanks. I've made some progress since then. Just need to upload the pictures. Nice "buzz" image, btw. I'm a GT alumn too.

05/27/2013, 09:57 PM	#157
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	ok. I've run into a bit of a snag. I have a BA overflow but the main siphon won't start when I test a power outage. I have two failsafes so no flood, but the water level doesn't come back down and the main siphon remains filled with a giant airbubble. All the drain lines are 2" PVC. The pump is pushing ~5000-6000gph and once the main 2" siphon is activated, it can drain all that flow and more... it'll run the overflow dry if the valve is fully opened. When I test a power outage, the main siphon pulls almost all the water in the overflow down to the sump. The main returns both run to their siphon breaks. Now, There is a giant airbubble in the main siphon that starts in the overflow and fills the 2" pipe down to the water level in the sump (drain end is about 1" below sump water level). When I restart the pump, the backups all go to work, but the main siphon is air-blocked. The water level can rise (if I close the other drains) 3" over the main siphon's intake and still air-blocked. I have to turn the pump OFF... then the siphon starts and if I restart the pump just before the overflow runs dry, I can get it all restarted. Clearly, this won't work in case of a real power outage. What's wrong?

05/27/2013, 10:02 PM	#158
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	I am going to drill and run a 1/4" airline to the main pump intake to hopefully get the airbubble moving a little and kickstart the siphon. I didn't want to go there, but it is A possible solution.

05/28/2013, 08:44 AM	#160
kmellon Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Falcon Colorado Posts: 25	Really impressive set up. I can't wait to see the completion.

05/28/2013, 09:02 PM	#162
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The main is 1" below water level at normal run and power off. The reservoir in the third stage of the sump absorbs the excess.

05/28/2013, 09:34 PM	#163
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033

05/28/2013, 09:37 PM	#164
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The left drain is the main siphon. The right is the low flow drain. There are two emergency drains at the other end if the overflow weir. The rings at the end are cut unions I used to adjust the outlet depth by 0.5" (makes no difference).

05/29/2013, 10:39 PM	#165
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Any ideas?

05/30/2013, 08:54 PM	#167
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	DIY plywood epoxy and acrylic sump... Took a little time There is a 10" run going from the vertical pipe to the sump opening, but how else do I get to the sump? I don't have clearance for a 45degree but I'll try some bends to see if it helps

05/30/2013, 11:47 PM	#168
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	It worked... Not a big change but enough to start the siphon.

05/31/2013, 12:13 AM	#169
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Thanks Lavoisier

05/31/2013, 09:33 PM	#171
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The surge should be in testing by the end of June but the DIY diverter has been running for months now: There are two returns: one on each far end of the tank. Bottom left and upper right.

06/02/2013, 09:58 PM	#173
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	keep in mind the video is only showing the siphon break leakage water. The main flow is through the large 2" outlets underwater.

07/06/2013, 09:27 AM	#175
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Ok. The surge is back on track and I've gotten some local help. I also got an Apex Controller and it is awesome. Here's where things stand as of today (been months in the making):