Random Flow Generator (RFG) by Vivid Creative Aquatics - Page 2

Cheapreef · 02/15/2018, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Oh cool.. There is a date there..
Anyone know the patent date?

and you can mod STL files.. Just need software capable of doing so..
But yes you do not have access to the original history/feature tree to allow "drop dead simple modification" but you can certainly mod them quite easily

Yes I know you "can" mod the STL file, but it's usually more of a pain than just rebuilding it. Or getting the source file, which IMO isn't likely to happen now.

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You can mod STL files.. Just need software capable of doing so
But yes you do not have access to the native software history/feature tree to allow "drop dead simple modification" but you can certainly mod them quite easily

so is there no sure way to prevent modifying the file similar to obfuscating code?

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheapreef

Yes I know you "can" mod the STL file, but it's usually more of a pain than just rebuilding it. Or getting the source file, which IMO isn't likely to happen now.

from the January 2017 post, it does not look like OnlyTono has the skill to do the reverse engineering. or maybe he does.

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

so is there no sure way to prevent modifying the file similar to obfuscating code?

I can modify it all day long..

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I can modify it all day long..

so that means 3d printing offers zero protection to people's work?

I see the VCA version is listed under make in OnlyTono account, and not as his original design.

https://www.thingiverse.com/make:283773

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

so that means 3d printing offers zero protection to people's work?

3d printing doesn't protect anything..
Not sure where your thought process is going there..

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I can modify it all day long..

can you modify and print one with the upper eductor hole closed off?

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

can you modify and print one with the upper eductor hole closed off?

Sure easily..
I'm at work and my break is over but let me see what I can do..

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

3d printing doesn't protect anything..
Not sure where your thought process is going there..

simple.
it means it offers makers absolutely no protection from someone stealing the design to take it commercially and make money out of somebody else's work like what happened here. not good imho.
but I suppose it is the person's choice to post it in public domain, and is no different posting code on github.

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

simple.
it means it offers makers absolutely no protection from someone stealing the design to take it commercially and make money out of somebody else's work like what happened here. not good imho.

of course.. I've always thought this "open source" movement to be a huge mistake..
There are so many "open source" projects where the inventors could have been retired living on a beach as a multi-millionaire had they just sold off the tech..

Professional companies are competing with these "open source" projects all the time and would have happily licensed/paid for the tech instead of loosing business..

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:44 AM

Which file exactly do you want modified?

ca1ore · 02/15/2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

so that means 3d printing offers zero protection to people's work?

I see the VCA version is listed under make in OnlyTono account, and not as his original design.

https://www.thingiverse.com/make:283773

Intellectual Property (IP) is under attack on many fronts these days ..... just look at Jebao as an example. I'd suggest anyone who owns a Jebao would be a hypocrite to complain about unauthorized use of their own IP

. Also, unless one actually patents an idea, it's mostly fair game for copying. Applying for a patent is not an inexpensive proposition (nominally $5K) and I would imagine the majority of 'garage' businesses do not do it.

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Which file exactly do you want modified?

I have no 3d printer, so either you or someone can print and test the modified print to see if it can be positioned closer to surface and not be sucking in air.

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Intellectual Property (IP) is under attack on many fronts these days ..... just look at Jebao as an example. .

Don't blame the player..blame the game
The patent system is flawed and full of holes..

Jebao is not a US company.. US patents do not apply to them..

ca1ore · 02/15/2018, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

I have no 3d printer, so either you or someone can print and test the modified print to see if it can be positioned closer to surface and not be sucking in air.

These things work by establishing negative pressure across the flow nozzle which sucks in surrounding material - whether water or air. I suppose one could close off one half of the suction openings, but that would degrade the performance of the educator.

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

I have no 3d printer, so either you or someone can print and test the modified print to see if it can be positioned closer to surface and not be sucking in air.

I have a printer.. I have CAD software.. I have access to flow testing software so I really don't even need to 3d print anything..
I don't know which file/version/section you are talking about specifically though..

But editing/correcting is quite easy for anyone to do..

Sorry.. enough fun for me today..Back to work I go..

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

These things work by establishing negative pressure across the flow nozzle which sucks in surrounding material - whether water or air. I suppose one could close off one half of the suction openings, but that would degrade the performance of the educator.

Degson fan say what? ok.. now I'm going back to work..

d0ughb0y · 02/15/2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Intellectual Property (IP) is under attack on many fronts these days ..... just look at Jebao as an example. I'd suggest anyone who owns a Jebao would be a hypocrite to complain about unauthorized use of their own IP

. Also, unless one actually patents an idea, it's mostly fair game for copying. Applying for a patent is not an inexpensive proposition and I would imagine the majority of 'garage' businesses do not do it.

since you bought these, are you going to toss them out now that you know they operate like jebao?

this shows "copying" is a universal thing, and not a just a Chinese thing.

ca1ore · 02/15/2018, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Jebao is not a US company.. US patents do not apply to them..

You didn't read what I wrote

- I didn't make either 'claim'. However, I do believe that a foreign company can be viewed as liable for patent infringement if they sell in the US (I am not patent lawyer, obviously)

ca1ore · 02/15/2018, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

since you bought these, are you going to toss them out now that you know they operate like jebao?

this shows "copying" is a universal thing, and not a just a Chinese thing.

OK, let me try again .....

Intellectual Property (IP) is under attack on many fronts these days ..... just look at Jebao as an example. - do we disagree that IP is under attack? Using Jebao as an example, I DO NOT say that copying is the exclusive domain of the Chinese (though they are frequent practitioners of it)

I'd suggest anyone who owns a Jebao would be a hypocrite to complain about unauthorized use of their own IP - seems pretty self explanatory. I am not complaining about unauthorized use of my own IP - not only am I quite happy to use these nozzles, I also have a few Jebao pumps at home.

eric23 · 02/15/2018, 01:50 PM

I'm using one of these along with the offset adapter made for the Red Sea reefer series tanks it's awesome and it keeps the return below the waterline so way less bubbles

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

smatter · 02/15/2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

I have no 3d printer, so either you or someone can print and test the modified print to see if it can be positioned closer to surface and not be sucking in air.

Why not just stick a little epoxy into the hole you want to block? If you close off the top the water will favor exiting the bottom of the nozzle. Try holding your finger over one side, the water will flow in the opposite direction.

marinelife · 02/15/2018, 04:00 PM

I really need to get a 3d Printer.

This thread has a lot of great info, thank everyone!

mcgyvr · 02/15/2018, 04:52 PM

Anyone check the price of getting one printed using the files on thingverse already at like Shapeways or other 3d printing service?

Cheapreef · 02/15/2018, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Anyone check the price of getting one printed using the files on thingverse already at like Shapeways or other 3d printing service?

You guys have Makerspce down there right, be cheaper and easier to do it that way.
But there so cheap these days everyone should have one. lol I have 5 myself, one of them being a resin SLA. I built all mine but there at the price point it's not worth building any more.

02/15/2018, 11:44 AM	#36
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Which file exactly do you want modified? __________________ Who me?

02/15/2018, 04:00 PM	#48
marinelife Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 6,590	I really need to get a 3d Printer. This thread has a lot of great info, thank everyone! __________________ I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops.

02/15/2018, 04:52 PM	#49
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Anyone check the price of getting one printed using the files on thingverse already at like Shapeways or other 3d printing service? __________________ Who me?

02/15/2018, 01:50 PM	#46
eric23 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 10	I'm using one of these along with the offset adapter made for the Red Sea reefer series tanks it's awesome and it keeps the return below the waterline so way less bubbles Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk