Karim's 1500gal dream reef

[karimwassef]

Probably good to reset the purpose of the "surge" containers and vacuum method.

A few months months ago, the circulating flow in the tank was achieved by separating the tank into four channels of flow with one big common volume in the back. There were four arrays of powerheads connecting the channels to the back volume. The intent was to activate the powerheads to create flow in some channels and accept the reverse flow through the inactive channels. That creates a circulating loop of flow.

Fast forward to the implementation phase and I realize that the cost of the 48 powerheads wasn't trivial. Neither was the power consumption to achieve the 4in/s targeted linear flow. The straw that broke the camel's back was the wiring and maintenance. The incursion of life would require regular maintenance of the powerheads and creating access mechanisms became a nightmare with 48 pumps with 48 wires - each connected to a power driver synchronized by an arduino. All possible - but wow the complexity.

I was undeterred until I started looking at the surge section (separate from the circulating flow) and the desire to create a separate grazing ground for turf to grow in sunlight. Here's how the thought evolved:

1. I need to create a scrubber that is only accessible to fish when I choose to. I also need to be able to get them out when I want to. I have no more tank space, but I saw the inverted tanks and though that an inverted tank made the ideal controllable grazing ground. So I went vertical up the wall where the sun was shining but nothing was using it.

2. To automatically fill and flush the grazing scrubber (to allow fish or expel them), I needed an automated vacuum and seals to hold or purge air pressure. So, the grazing grounds became a defacto surge.

3. But my problem with surges is the burden then create on the overflow with siphons and vortices, etc... this is what my wife calls the "toilet flushing" events. So I came up with the idea of separating the vertical tank into two tanks 4' wide each. The idea is that if one is full and the other side is empty, I can connect the top air pockets and create a circulating flow (not a surge) that sucks water up one and pushes water down the other. That was it... flow without flushing!!! The idea of connecting the air pockets worked (video on YouTube) but was slow compared to the surge.

4. I needed to figure out what the formulae were that controlled the rate of flow as a function of design variables... math math math... got it and yes! I can make it work.

5. So now I had a circulating flow scrubber surge (could circulate or surge)!! And the best part is that it requires no pumps in the water. No wires in the water. No maintenance of equipment in the water. The fish can swim up to graze and I can slowly lower the level so they stop. I can run it as a waterfall or updraft scrubber too when it's air filled or water filled.

6. Turn my attention back to my circulating flow powerheads.. they're now unnecessarily complicated. Their only advantage was that they were an array that allowed me to create a slug of flow down the channels that wasn't a circular pump output. So, I replaced them with an array of PVC pipe and now I get the same effect from two vacuums over four tanks.

The tanks cost $350 each. The vacuums $150 each. The valves cost $15 each x 10 = $150 per channel. I actuate the air valves instead of the water so I need 4 actuators per tank at $50 each ~ $200.. $850 per channel with only four vacuums and 16 valves to control. Compare that to 48 DC powerheads ($1000 per channel before the controls).

So easier, cheaper.. but the flow was still not as much as I'd like.

7. I realized that as I vacuum the air out of one container, I can inject it into another!! The vacuum's blower output was able to pressurize the second tank. That means that the pipes weren't just pumping water out (like a surge), they were drawing water in. Unlike a "pump fill", a vacuum fill sucks water to create a counter flow back up. Likewise, the tank rebalancing also sucks water back up. This exceeded what the one way powerheads and pumps could do... true reversible flow!

And that's where we have the current design.

[karimwassef]

The trick is moving & controlling the air, not the water.

[o2manyfish]

I want to let you know, if it seems like I am mocking all the detailed research and hypothecating, I do it with a smile on my face.

On the other end of the keyboard is a fat bald guy in a bright Hawaiian shirt. I have a good sense of humor but it's quite sarcastic.

So if it seems like I am just dropping bombs on your ideas, please don't see it as me trying to be an evil *****.

I love seeing people come up with new ideas that makes our aquariums healthier and our live stock live longer happier lives.

Having been a tinkerer and gadget guy my whole life a good majority of my system is all self designed and built by me.

I've been building custom aquarium systems since 1989. From simple 180's up to commercial coral prop farms here in the states, to even Government run coral farms in Asia.

While this means I have seen lots of things, it means i have also seen lots of failures (many my own). In my experience all the notes and numbers don't necessarily work when you build the actual thing.

I congratulate you on your design models for proof of concept.

I am happy to help you with any of the experience or knowledge i have. I'm happy to give you my number to talk if you like. But I'm telling you now I'm going to laugh if you start citing all those numbers and statistics

Dave B

[dannyfish]

If this is a hobby, what about spending time with the family? Just curious how you all are juggling your time around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[o2manyfish]

Dannyfish, When i first started dating my wife I took her to a wholesale and told her to pick what ever fish she wanted for the tank. She picked an Achilles tang.

When it was time to get married, it was my wife's idea to get married at the Aquarium of the Pacific.

Now she's a full fledged Reef Groupie. She goes to the shows, she booked Macna, she doesn't mind people stopping by at least 2-3 days a week to pick up corals and talk fish.

And she is 100% supportive of us upgrading and adding more tanks in the house.

If you are a true reef addict, before you propose you gotta turn the woman upside down and look for webbed feet and gills behind the ears.

Dave B

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by o2manyfish

I want to let you know, if it seems like I am mocking all the detailed research and hypothecating, I do it with a smile on my face.

On the other end of the keyboard is a fat bald guy in a bright Hawaiian shirt. I have a good sense of humor but it's quite sarcastic.

So if it seems like I am just dropping bombs on your ideas, please don't see it as me trying to be an evil *****.

I love seeing people come up with new ideas that makes our aquariums healthier and our live stock live longer happier lives.

Having been a tinkerer and gadget guy my whole life a good majority of my system is all self designed and built by me.

I've been building custom aquarium systems since 1989. From simple 180's up to commercial coral prop farms here in the states, to even Government run coral farms in Asia.

While this means I have seen lots of things, it means i have also seen lots of failures (many my own). In my experience all the notes and numbers don't necessarily work when you build the actual thing.

I congratulate you on your design models for proof of concept.

I am happy to help you with any of the experience or knowledge i have. I'm happy to give you my number to talk if you like. But I'm telling you now I'm going to laugh if you start citing all those numbers and statistics

Dave B

Absolutely. Ps me and let's start talking. I'm always glad to learn from the failures of others. It's cheaper... LOL!!

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by o2manyfish

Dannyfish, When i first started dating my wife I took her to a wholesale and told her to pick what ever fish she wanted for the tank. She picked an Achilles tang.

When it was time to get married, it was my wife's idea to get married at the Aquarium of the Pacific.

Now she's a full fledged Reef Groupie. She goes to the shows, she booked Macna, she doesn't mind people stopping by at least 2-3 days a week to pick up corals and talk fish.

And she is 100% supportive of us upgrading and adding more tanks in the house.

If you are a true reef addict, before you propose you gotta turn the woman upside down and look for webbed feet and gills behind the ears.

Dave B

Lol! You are blessed my friend! I didn't check and my wife hates the hobby, even though she loves me. She compares it to a second wife or a drug addiction and pushes me to seek help when I bring it up.

She thinks the fish and swaying corals are pretty, but she asks about paying for the kids' college education when $ comes up... which is why I'm such a frugal *** .. I want the ocean for $3.99 ... and I build everything I can myself... DIY ghetto rigs FTW!

[karimwassef]

Originally Posted by dannyfish

If this is a hobby, what about spending time with the family? Just curious how you all are juggling your time around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is this really my wife trolling??? Just kidding... she'd never open the browser to this site!

I have managed to hook my older one into the physics and chemistry of the hobby. So we do experiments together. She was holding the camera on the last surge vids (shake shake shake)

The younger one is more into the biology and animals. I am recruiting them both to my camp as fast as possible.

Mommy keeps pushing the "ewwww" factor and I show them how pretty the bristle worms really are.

We also go on vacations and do homework and play board games... but I like to augment their skills to help the tank designs whenever possible.

Wife is much harder to influence. Every moment spent in tank design counts as a demerit... so I try to do things she likes too. Is it balanced- probably not... but love overcomes unfairness and I do adore that woman. No one tell her I said that!!!

[vikinglord13]

Originally Posted by o2manyfish

Dannyfish, When i first started dating my wife I took her to a wholesale and told her to pick what ever fish she wanted for the tank. She picked an Achilles tang.

When it was time to get married, it was my wife's idea to get married at the Aquarium of the Pacific.

Now she's a full fledged Reef Groupie. She goes to the shows, she booked Macna, she doesn't mind people stopping by at least 2-3 days a week to pick up corals and talk fish.

And she is 100% supportive of us upgrading and adding more tanks in the house.

If you are a true reef addict, before you propose you gotta turn the woman upside down and look for webbed feet and gills behind the ears.

Dave B

Haha I'm jealous. I suppose I'll have to look for prospective wives at AotP then! Haha, this is great.

[karimwassef]

Army of the Pharaohs?.. wrong site.

[karimwassef]

looking at a different backroom + sunroom structure:

[jccaclimber]

I better understand your comment about half and half with the glass/metal. What angle does the sun come in from in the winter?

[karimwassef]

The sun come in southeast to southwest. As long as the glass covers south, east and west ... and I avoid shade from the houses, fences, trees and hills, it's all good.

[karimwassef]

The idea is to use a concrete slab and steel frame for the whole structure. Then use glass on the southern half and steel on the northern half.

[albano]

Really great planning, but... my personal experience with 'remote' tanks is that they can be quickly forgotten and ignored after it becomes 'work' to go all the way out there everyday to check on it...if the tank is not where you can enjoy it easily (with your family), it might be in the wrong place.

[karimwassef]

The sunroom is basically my equivalent of a man cave. It's not remote.

Also - there are no other options to fit a tank of this size. My wife is not into the hobby.

I'd compare this to other hobbies or interests in the garage... like vintage cars or woodworking or gardening. You don't enjoy them in your living room, but you still enjoy them.

[karimwassef]

[karimwassef]

First real pictures:!!!

Here's the land... from the far fence edge to the left to the jump in the fence height on the right. There's a retaining wall for the higher land the neighbor (actually a fire station) is at.



Here's the land on the opposite side (hill, wall, fence, trees):



The fence sits on a retaining wall starting at the property:

[vikinglord13]

Looks like a nice plot. i like that juniper.

[karimwassef]

I can barely see it from my side.. tall fence. but that's ok - I like sunshine more.

here's where the sunroom and backroom are at:

[karimwassef]

After much redesign - I've gotten the heavy zone in the slab down to 200 sqft with loading less than 550lb/ft2.

I've also shrunk the space to 1000 sqft total - 40'x25' and 12' high.

Frankly, the detached space is eating up my budget with a vengeance. First quote for the slab was $20,000... and the sunroom was $45,000...

I'm still determined to get this all to fit under $50,000.. so a lot more DIY

[karimwassef]

And here are the new design images:



I added an external 12' x 20' scrubber in a separate greenhouse.

I also added a skylight into the back room to light the raise reservoir scrubber.



Here's the redesigned slab with the deeper 12" thick section in the middle.





The two heat exchange loops (large for air and small for water) are buried but offset from the slab.



I went with wood frame for the heavy loads.



I combined the surge scrubber with the top vacuum chambers. This made them very large and heavy. The glass frame originally supporting the scrubber was inadequate to brace and distribute the load onto the plywood floor. So I'm using cinderblocks in the tank water to support the center plates of glass and the weight of the expanded surge-scrubber.



Here's the connectivity between the sump and the raised reservoir and the returns in the display tank.



and here's the loading on the slab

[karimwassef]

At this point - it's all about containing it all in the budget...

[karimwassef]

I actually think the cinderblock structures will make excellent homes too...

[McPuff]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

I actually think the cinderblock structures will make excellent homes too...

Yes, they will. I have used cinderblocks before with no ill effects... but you will get lots of people saying not to do it. Perhaps you can acid etch them first? Not sure if that would help.