Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones ~Added to 7/30/14

[skyrne_isk]

So as a practical question, what is the prevailing wisdom regarding infections that develop in the display tank? When an anemone develops an infection, not as a result of shipping but as a result of some pathology that manifested itself spontaneously in the display tank, what is the best route to clear pathogen from the display tank after treatment has occurred? One of my carpets that I've had for several years developed an infection as a result of a confluence of unlikely events (no new additions or water changes even):

I had been away from the tank for several days and while I was gone the carpet developed a bacterial infection. The best explanation that I can come up with is that while I was gone, a cylinder/ solenoid/probe Ca reactor malfunction caused excess CO2 to be dumped in the reaction chamber which created an alkalinity spike which in turn resulted in calcium carbonate precipitation to deposit in the one vortech that is in the tank (70G). This vortech pump effectively produces all of the flow for the tank. The low flow conditions in the tank over the course of several days caused a bacterial infection to manifest as the carpet went days with next to no flow. By the time I caught up to the anemone it was deflated, necrotic and near death. Cipro treatment has been quite effective in halting the tissue necrosis (even though I did take the liberty of injecting Cipro directly into the foot and to the siphonoglyphs) and the anemone is now recovered. I excised probably three golf balls worth of tissue that was necrotic from a carpet the size of a softball. Amazing recovery.

The concern now is that when adding the treated anemone back to the main tank, stress symptoms and posture were exhibited after 48 hours back in the main tank. Removing the treated carpet back to the treatment tank resulted in an immediate return to normal posture. This leads me to believe that the underlying bacterial pathogen is still present (or in higher than normal concentration) and and that this bacteria is going to have to be addressed before the carpet can be added back to the display.

As a fun side fact, I keep a secondary system that also houses a different gigantea that is filled only with water that is pulled out of the main display when water changes are performed (though this has stopped as of a week ago after the upstream system infection occurred ). As a result of this practice over time, this second tank is ran much dirtier than the display tank. This bacterial condition did not manifest itself in this tank, and in fact the water from this tank has been used as the treatment tank water source throughout the cipro treatment course. So at this point I am a little stuck on how to remediate the bacterial pathogen that developed in the main tank. It is clearly still present enough to be an irritant to the carpet that was just treated. Is maybe the solution simply waiting for the imbalance to correct itself? Keeping the treated carpet in treatment or in the second tank is definitely an option, but those daily 100% water changes are rough.

[OrionN]

I think that in out tank there is always potential of having pathogens. Usually in a well run tank the pathogens level is low and the chance of infection is minimal. I think when there is a sick anemone, the concentration of pathogen is a lot higher. Basically the sick anemone is full of bacterial and when he deflated he dump all these pathogen out into the water.

I think once you removed the sick anemone from the tank the bacterial population should go back to normal. The competition of microorganism in the environment is extreme. Obligatory pathogen will not last long. I am sure you can put a healthy anemon back in your DT and he will be just fine. Providing that you got your tank back to optimal condition. I just do water change and reassess your equipments. Once your DT is back to normal it would just put the anemone back

BTW, I think I got my green Gigantea/Haddoni hybrid from you several years ago. He is doing great

[Agioniko]

How long do you QT an new anemone arrival?

[OrionN]

I keep him in QT for a few days to make sure he is healthy. I can keep them in my QT indefinitely since it is set up for anemone, but as soon as I am sure that he is healthy then I can put him into my DT. You can tell, or at least I can, that an anemone is healthy within one week.

[Agioniko]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback

[raythepilot]

When I first saw this post on treating nem decline with Cipro I knew right away that this was a breakthrough. My personal experience with BTA indicated that the anemone were being attacked by a bacteria that eventually killed them.

Since then I have been able to move the disease from tank to tank and cure it at will. While the equipment and techniques I describe here may be beyond what the average hobbyist has available, I’ll describe them and maybe someone can modify them. This method is specifically designed for a small tank environment of about 10 gal.

The anemone are treated in a small holding tank that fits into a 10 gal tank (see picture in link). Putting the holding tank in the larger tank isolates the anemone, while maintaining thermal stability. The bubbler is adjusted to keep the water circulating but not regulated so high that the anemone is carried away.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/pi...ictureid=64535

The measured volume of the holding tank is 1.7 L. A typical 500 mg Cipro tablet weighs 770 mg with a label strength of 500 mg.
The required final concentration is: 250 mg Cipro/10 gal.
The amount of Cipro tablet to add to the holding tank is:
250 mg/10 gal * 1 gal/3.79L *1.7 L * 770mg/500mg = 17 mg

So for every liter of holding tank volume, you need 10 mg of Cipro tablet.

I have an analytical balance; so, measuring small amounts like this is easy but I’m not sure how you can do this without an accurate balance. You can try grinding up a whole 500 mg tablet and suspending it in 500 ml of water. This will have a concentration of 1 mg/ml so you would use 1.0 ml for each liter of holding tank. You should store this in your refrigerator. I do not know what the stability of Cipro is in water; so, this may not work. Maybe someone can comment on this.

Next you need good accurately made sea water at the right temperature. I have access to some lab equipment; so, I can make synthetic water to a salinity of 35.0 ppt +/- 0.1 ppt. My target SG is 1.02635. You can get around this by making up enough water in advance that is equivalent to 10x the volume of your holding tank. Make up this amount of water and adjust it to as close to 1.0260 (or whatever your target SG is) as you can with your equipment. So if your holding tank is 1.7 L. Make at least 10x or 17L (approx. 5 gal). of water adjusted to a SG of 1.0260.

Now you need a digital thermometer that can read to 0.1 deg. C. I use an Omega HH74K. I don’t think you can get around having an accurate thermometer if you are going to follow this method.

Check the temperature in the nem tank and your newly made synthetic water. Adjust the new water to +/- 0.2 C. of the anemone water. For example, if the anemone is in water with a temperature of 26.0 deg C the new water must be between 25.8 – 26.2 C. I usually heat the new water in a clean stainless steel pot on my stove or in a clean polypropylene container in the microwave oven.

When the temperature of the new water is OK, I fill the holding tank, add the correct amount of Cipro and put the anemone in the holding tank. I put the holding tank into the primary tank to maintain the correct temperature and adjust the bubbler.

Just before lights out, I add a second dose of Cipro. This is to maintain the Cipro level overnight.

The following morning, I adjust the temperature of my new water to agree with the water temperature of the holding tank and when it is correct, I dump the water out of the holding tank, rinse the tank twice with a small amount of new water and the refill it to the correct level and add a fresh dose of Cipro. At lights off I again add a second dose.

I continue this process for 7 days.

This method always keeps the anemone in good water and allows for the natural decay of Cipro. In addition, the overall dose is never greater than 2x the required dose.

As I’ve said, I have had 100% success rate using this method. The only down side is that the anemone will bleach slightly because of the toxicity of Cipro for the natural algae found in the anemone. The animals usually recover to full color after about a month.

[Gig 'em]

Has anyone experimented with using ozone in treatment? I know that ozone isn't real great for treating bacteria, but I've read that it is very effective in killing viruses. Not sure if these anemones succumb to viral or bacterial infections more, it may be impossible from the level of a hobbyist to know for sure. Seems like something worth experimenting with.

[OrionN]

Ozone is good at killing everything because it oxidized everything. Basically it sterilized the water. Ozone need to be neutralized before the water go back into the tank or else it will kill everything in the tank.
It is good at keeping the water column clear, but not usable to treat internal infection of any animal.

[Gig 'em]

Yeah. I heard running carbon on the return line will scrub out the compounds that are created from the oxidation reactions. If the anemone expels water and re-inflates while running ozone, I would think then that any viruses inside the anemone would be eliminated.

[Gig 'em]

Also, bacteria can be killed through ozone, but the concentration of ozone required to kill bacteria is much higher than what hobbyists have access to. I read that it needs to be in the 10-12 ppm range, which is incredibly high.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

[OrionN]

In general, Ozone just oxidized everything, the higher the concentration, the higher the damage. I think a LFS in England imported many Gigantea at the same time. This store treat the anemones with antibiotic in the same system, but use High dose UV to treat the water to prevent cross infection between the anemone. Essentially each anemone are in it's own cubicle but all the water flow from the cubicle were irradiated with UV before return to the sump.

IMO, Ozone should not be use as treatment for infection. It is ineffective in treating infection inside the anemone. Ozone will irritated all the animal in the tank, unless it is completely scrubbed from the post ozone chamber before t=return to the general circulation.

We need to treat these anemone with antibiotic and which will treat the infection in the water column and in the anemone.

[Blue spot]

Great reading orion. This may be a silly question but I am going to ask it anyway. Could I soak the anemones supliment feed in the antibiotic ? I have no quarantine system.

[OrionN]

There have been a few people who take the anemone out and put him a concentrated antibiotic solution for an hour or so and put him back into the DT. I have not done that.
If you want to save your anemone, you need to set up treatment tank.
It is not possible to treat anemone in DT because the havoc antibiotic does to your biological filtration needed for reef tanks

[Blue spot]

Hi Orion , I have some tetracycline hydrochloride , still trying to get cipro, could this be used ?

[Smite]

I have a question. I recently bought a blue carpet anemone. My water parameters are:
phosphate .02
Nitrate 2-3ppm
Calcium 400-420
Magnesium currently - 1400
Alkalinity 9.3
Temp 78-79 controlled by apex

I believe my carpet anemone has a bacterial infection. Its deflates several times a day, mouth is gaping at times and sometimes spews fluid.

I've set up my 10g QT with matching parameters. My only problem is the carpet attached to a rock I buried in the sand bed from the DT. Do I stress it further by removing it from the small piece of LR? Will it affect my dosing of Cipro if I were to allow it to stay on the lr? I just added it to the hospital tank, I have a small power head, blocked off, pointed in its direction. I'm hoping it will move but I planned on starting the cipro treatment asap.

Thanks for any help. I apologize if this was already covered in the thread.

Edit: A picture, just incase it helps.



or two

[marc price]

- no. Leave it on the rock.

[Smite]

thank you marc price. I'll start treatment tonight then. Wonderful thread, hopefully this all works out.

[m0nkie]

I have this blue haddoni in my tank for a month now... he was constantly moving, but inflated.. last week, he started deflating at night

day


night


this is my first time treating a carpet with Cipro. in 24 hours I will be doing a complete water change into another tank. Do I need some kind of live rock inside? to process ammonia?? even with the 24hr tank change?

-10 gal
-basic light
-tiny powerhead and a air pump
-heater

[m0nkie]

looking much better in day 2. not deflating at night anymore. Mouth is not 100% closed and has some tiny amount of clear nugs come out.

[KirbyBTF]

I'm about to start treatment on my bubbletip. Got the meds in the mail but it's Cipronatin. Is it the same as ciprofloxacin?

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by KirbyBTF

I'm about to start treatment on my bubbletip. Got the meds in the mail but it's Cipronatin. Is it the same as ciprofloxacin?

It should be fine. I think Cipronatin is a brand name with ciprofloxacin as the active ingredient.

[KirbyBTF]

Ok great, thanks.

[KirbyBTF]

Could I use tank water to fill the treatment tank?

[brewman1987]

I decided to go ahead and try to save my bta that I have had for 2 months.
The first month he was beautiful , long tentacles and always hungry, waving in the water. Then until recently it has had a decline over several weeks. The tentacles were turning into short nubs and would always deflate , inflate, feeding response was non existent and mouth would open for a bit then close tight. I decided to buy a bottle of fish flox (cipro) and attempt to treat it.

I am using a 10gal tank with small heater and hob filter for flow. It was still attached to the rock during transfer. After about 30 minutes into the ht I decided to medicate. Initially after 15mins medicated its mouth was wide open and foot was starting to detach. That is how it looked before went to bed.

This morning he moved to the other end of the rock and fully attached the foot. Mouth is still gaping with some stringy looking pieces at the end.

The only thing in the tank that could of bothered it would been a emerald crab as it was constantly annoying it.

[brewman1987]

This was day before tx.