'Wild' juvies in my tank

Fredfish · 08/26/2006, 09:47 AM

Thought I would post this. I have two 2+" juviniles in my seahorse system. One is in the refugium and one is in the main tank. I am guessing they are about 3 months old at this point.

I have known about the one in my refugium for a month now, but just saw the one in the main tank last night.

I have had fry survive in the tank for a couple of months before, but never this long. Both are looking quite full bodied, so are getting lots of food.

I am quite surprised to see the one in the main tank as it has to compete with the adults for live food.

At the moment, both tanks are chock full (and I mean FULL) of macro algae so there are lots of places for pods to hide.

One more week and I will be out of summer vacation mode and will try to catch and train them on frozen.

Oooh, the one in my refugium is right by the front glass right now! He is just over two inches in length and definately male. Just saw him snick and miss an adult amphipod.

Fred

cmsargent · 08/26/2006, 10:40 AM

Hey Fred

That's really cool that the babies survived in your tank. What species are they?

pledosophy · 08/27/2006, 10:18 PM

Your nutz man. You don't spend nearly as much time as you should staring at your tank if you missed a juvie for so long. Your not out there having a life again are you. You know it's against the rules.

I think it's amazing. How much macro are we talking about? Other tankmates. Would love to know more. If it wasn't you I probably wouldn't believe it, but since it is you, I want to know how your doing it. Sounds great.

Fredfish · 08/28/2006, 12:04 PM

cmsargent. I am not certain of the species, but it may be H. fuscus. The horses are small, fry are benthic. If you search on my screen name in this forum you will find several discussions on identifying the species.

pledosophy. Nope, not getting a life, working too hard.

We are talking 2 40g tanks of wall to wall macro. Actually, there is a little swimming room in the main tank. but not much. The only tank mates are two Bangai (ant the 3 adult horses) in the main tank.

I guess they are getting enough live food in the form of copepods and amphipods. I don't skim and rarely do water changes so the tank has plenty of nutrient input to support a thriving pod community. It looks like as the tank is matureing it is able to support a larger pod community.

Fred

pledosophy · 08/28/2006, 10:00 PM

What and how much are you feeding to support all that macro?

What is your lighting like?

What species of macro do you have?

Fredfish · 08/28/2006, 10:06 PM

Mostly feed pe mysis to the horses. I don't worry too much if there is a little extra hanging around for the worms etc to scavenge. I try to feed twice a day, but don't always manage.

I was also feeding the tank golden pearls for a while but havn't for the last two months.

The macro has increased slowly over time. There are two species of caulerpa and chaeto.

Fred

Fredfish · 08/29/2006, 02:02 PM

After reading a thread in the breeding forum on copepods I thought I would post here again.

The reason I can have fry survive to the juvenile stage is because I have two live foods they need. The first is a small canaloid copepod that is an excellent first food for fry. The second is amphipods which the juvenile is now feeding and surviving on.

Interstingly, the juvenile is appears to no longer be interested in the small copepods and their numbers have been steadily increasing for the last month or so.

Without a skimmer, any nutrients that go into the tank become available to the macro for growth. I also do not rinse my pe mysis when feeding. I just pop a frozen chunk into the tube leading to the feeder and let it thaw in the tank.

The macro makes for a good home and refuge for amphipods and probably ups the number of pods the tank can support. That would explain why my juveniles have survived so much longer this time around. Both tanks have much more algae present.

Fred

Samala · 08/29/2006, 02:16 PM

Fred its so great to see you back! I'm thrilled for your success with the second juvenile. It really makes you wonder how well this type of system would work with other species.

>Sarah

Fredfish · 08/29/2006, 02:52 PM

Thanks Sarah, its been a while.

It would work for other species only if there were enough copepod juveniles to keep them going for a week until they were large enough to feed on adults.

Now all you need to do is set up a tank to test this out.

Fred

Fredfish · 09/07/2006, 07:42 PM

Finally got a few pics of junior.

From the second picture you can tell its definately a male.

It still amazes me that this guy has survived so long. Just goes to show what a mature refugium can support.

Fred

whatnot45 · 09/09/2006, 05:38 PM

Have any full tank pics? I would like to see just how much macro there is

pledosophy · 09/09/2006, 09:45 PM

You don't have to convince me about how great fuges are. That pic of Junior is stunning.

Great job keeper.

sunfishh · 09/10/2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whatnot45
Have any full tank pics? I would like to see just how much macro there is

I second this. I would love to see a full tank shot

Fredfish · 09/10/2006, 03:54 PM

Pics coming tonight, but they wont be very quality.

I now have both juveniles in a small 1g fry rearing tank to try to get them onto frozen food.

I wonder if I should put them into a larger tank with one of my trained adults?

Fred

Fredfish · 09/10/2006, 06:26 PM

OK, as promised here is a picture of the tank.

Not much to look at really. Lots of algae.

Fred

Fredfish · 09/10/2006, 06:39 PM

One more try. I cropped the picture a little more to try to get a little more detail. Unfortunately I only have 50kb to play with.

You can see a male Bangai in the upper left part of the picture. He's not very happy right now because I took out 2/3 of the algae this afternoon.

As far as why my two juvies survived so long, I can only speculate, but I suspect that with the tank this jam packed with algae, there were places that the horses just couldn't get at the pods.

Fred

pledosophy · 09/11/2006, 10:06 PM

Damm you weren't kidding. that is a tremendous amount of macro alage in there. No wonder there are so amny pods. That really anwsers a lot of my questions.

I'm planning my 37g future horse tank now and have a 40g sump and a 20g that is going to be used as a gravity fed refugium, I wonder if I'll have half the macro of you in the three tanks combined

Fredfish · 09/12/2006, 02:14 AM

I never kid.

With lots of hard work, you to can have lots of algae like me!

Fred

sunfishh · 09/12/2006, 09:21 AM

You removed 2/3

That is a lot of macro in the tank.

Fredfish · 09/12/2006, 11:37 AM

I removed the algae after taking the picture.

fred

pledosophy · 09/12/2006, 11:19 PM

You never got an ID on those did ya?

It is good to have you back on the boards Fred. We missed you.

Fredfish · 09/13/2006, 12:25 PM

Identifying seahorses is not as simple as some would think, particularly for those that are part of 'complexes.

I still think they are H. fuscus (which is part of the kuda complex). The only way to know for sure would be genetic testing and to do that I would need $$$ and a database to compare against.

I had a fun summer, but its good to be back. I still have some things like finding a real job that keep me busy so I don't know how much time I will have to spend here, but I will be around.

Fred

pledosophy · 09/13/2006, 12:31 PM

Have you tried contacting Marc at Seahorse.org?

He has written a program that when different characteristics are given it can assign speceis. He may be able to help you. He is pretty busy guy though.

I have always thought your were fuscus, but definetly part of the Kuda complex.

08/26/2006, 09:47 AM	#1
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	'Wild' juvies in my tank Thought I would post this. I have two 2+" juviniles in my seahorse system. One is in the refugium and one is in the main tank. I am guessing they are about 3 months old at this point. I have known about the one in my refugium for a month now, but just saw the one in the main tank last night. I have had fry survive in the tank for a couple of months before, but never this long. Both are looking quite full bodied, so are getting lots of food. I am quite surprised to see the one in the main tank as it has to compete with the adults for live food. At the moment, both tanks are chock full (and I mean FULL) of macro algae so there are lots of places for pods to hide. One more week and I will be out of summer vacation mode and will try to catch and train them on frozen. Oooh, the one in my refugium is right by the front glass right now! He is just over two inches in length and definately male. Just saw him snick and miss an adult amphipod. Fred

08/27/2006, 10:18 PM	#3
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Your nutz man. You don't spend nearly as much time as you should staring at your tank if you missed a juvie for so long. Your not out there having a life again are you. You know it's against the rules. I think it's amazing. How much macro are we talking about? Other tankmates. Would love to know more. If it wasn't you I probably wouldn't believe it, but since it is you, I want to know how your doing it. Sounds great. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

08/28/2006, 10:00 PM	#5
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	What and how much are you feeding to support all that macro? What is your lighting like? What species of macro do you have? __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

08/29/2006, 02:16 PM	#8
Samala Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,930	Fred its so great to see you back! I'm thrilled for your success with the second juvenile. It really makes you wonder how well this type of system would work with other species. >Sarah __________________ "Seaweed is cool, seaweed is fun, it makes its food from the rays of the sun!"

09/09/2006, 09:45 PM	#12
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	You don't have to convince me about how great fuges are. That pic of Junior is stunning. Great job keeper. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

08/26/2006, 10:40 AM	#2
cmsargent Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 189	Hey Fred That's really cool that the babies survived in your tank. What species are they?

08/28/2006, 12:04 PM	#4
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	cmsargent. I am not certain of the species, but it may be H. fuscus. The horses are small, fry are benthic. If you search on my screen name in this forum you will find several discussions on identifying the species. pledosophy. Nope, not getting a life, working too hard. We are talking 2 40g tanks of wall to wall macro. Actually, there is a little swimming room in the main tank. but not much. The only tank mates are two Bangai (ant the 3 adult horses) in the main tank. I guess they are getting enough live food in the form of copepods and amphipods. I don't skim and rarely do water changes so the tank has plenty of nutrient input to support a thriving pod community. It looks like as the tank is matureing it is able to support a larger pod community. Fred

08/28/2006, 10:06 PM	#6
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Mostly feed pe mysis to the horses. I don't worry too much if there is a little extra hanging around for the worms etc to scavenge. I try to feed twice a day, but don't always manage. I was also feeding the tank golden pearls for a while but havn't for the last two months. The macro has increased slowly over time. There are two species of caulerpa and chaeto. Fred

08/29/2006, 02:02 PM	#7
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	After reading a thread in the breeding forum on copepods I thought I would post here again. The reason I can have fry survive to the juvenile stage is because I have two live foods they need. The first is a small canaloid copepod that is an excellent first food for fry. The second is amphipods which the juvenile is now feeding and surviving on. Interstingly, the juvenile is appears to no longer be interested in the small copepods and their numbers have been steadily increasing for the last month or so. Without a skimmer, any nutrients that go into the tank become available to the macro for growth. I also do not rinse my pe mysis when feeding. I just pop a frozen chunk into the tube leading to the feeder and let it thaw in the tank. The macro makes for a good home and refuge for amphipods and probably ups the number of pods the tank can support. That would explain why my juveniles have survived so much longer this time around. Both tanks have much more algae present. Fred

08/29/2006, 02:52 PM	#9
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Thanks Sarah, its been a while. It would work for other species only if there were enough copepod juveniles to keep them going for a week until they were large enough to feed on adults. Now all you need to do is set up a tank to test this out. Fred

09/07/2006, 07:42 PM	#10
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Finally got a few pics of junior. From the second picture you can tell its definately a male. It still amazes me that this guy has survived so long. Just goes to show what a mature refugium can support. Fred

09/09/2006, 05:38 PM	#11
whatnot45 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: san jose california Posts: 666	Have any full tank pics? I would like to see just how much macro there is

09/10/2006, 03:54 PM	#14
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Pics coming tonight, but they wont be very quality. I now have both juveniles in a small 1g fry rearing tank to try to get them onto frozen food. I wonder if I should put them into a larger tank with one of my trained adults? Fred

09/10/2006, 06:26 PM	#15
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	OK, as promised here is a picture of the tank. Not much to look at really. Lots of algae. Fred

09/10/2006, 06:39 PM	#16
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	One more try. I cropped the picture a little more to try to get a little more detail. Unfortunately I only have 50kb to play with. You can see a male Bangai in the upper left part of the picture. He's not very happy right now because I took out 2/3 of the algae this afternoon. As far as why my two juvies survived so long, I can only speculate, but I suspect that with the tank this jam packed with algae, there were places that the horses just couldn't get at the pods. Fred

09/11/2006, 10:06 PM	#17
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Damm you weren't kidding. that is a tremendous amount of macro alage in there. No wonder there are so amny pods. That really anwsers a lot of my questions. I'm planning my 37g future horse tank now and have a 40g sump and a 20g that is going to be used as a gravity fed refugium, I wonder if I'll have half the macro of you in the three tanks combined __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

09/12/2006, 02:14 AM	#18
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	I never kid. With lots of hard work, you to can have lots of algae like me! Fred

09/12/2006, 09:21 AM	#19
sunfishh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fullerton, Ca Posts: 1,875	You removed 2/3 That is a lot of macro in the tank. __________________ It's nice to be important, but important to be nice

09/12/2006, 11:37 AM	#20
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	I removed the algae after taking the picture. fred

09/12/2006, 11:19 PM	#21
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	You never got an ID on those did ya? It is good to have you back on the boards Fred. We missed you. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT

09/13/2006, 12:25 PM	#22
Fredfish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 2,661	Identifying seahorses is not as simple as some would think, particularly for those that are part of 'complexes. I still think they are H. fuscus (which is part of the kuda complex). The only way to know for sure would be genetic testing and to do that I would need $$$ and a database to compare against. I had a fun summer, but its good to be back. I still have some things like finding a real job that keep me busy so I don't know how much time I will have to spend here, but I will be around. Fred

09/13/2006, 12:31 PM	#23
pledosophy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton Posts: 5,290	Have you tried contacting Marc at Seahorse.org? He has written a program that when different characteristics are given it can assign speceis. He may be able to help you. He is pretty busy guy though. I have always thought your were fuscus, but definetly part of the Kuda complex. __________________ 120g mixed reef 90g QT