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Unread 02/18/2018, 08:24 AM   #1
Fredfish
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Metal stand cleanup

I just picked up a used system and want to clean up the surface rust.

Has anyone tried a rubberized paint on a stand? I'm wondering if it would help with salt penetration. Salt seems to get through most other paints.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 08:50 AM   #2
mcgyvr
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You really don't need anything fancy for a stand..
A few coats of any regular enamel paint (rust oleum,etc...) for metal is just fine.

But you can certainly go crazy if you want..


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Unread 02/18/2018, 08:51 AM   #3
davocean
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I'd probably hit it w/ wd40 and give a good wipe down to remove the surface rust, and then you will want to use something like laquer thinner to remove the residue from that just before prepping for whatever you use as a protective coating.

There are lots of choices, everything from having it powder coated, which is probably best but not cheapest, to something like rhino liner spray, which is another good option.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 09:43 AM   #4
Fredfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
You really don't need anything fancy for a stand..
A few coats of any regular enamel paint (rust oleum,etc...) for metal is just fine.

But you can certainly go crazy if you want..
I'm not going crazy, but rustoleum is not particularly effective against salt water on its own. If another $50 will prevent rust down the road, I'll spend it now. I consider it preventative maintenance.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 10:25 AM   #5
Fredfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davocean View Post
I'd probably hit it w/ wd40 and give a good wipe down to remove the surface rust, and then you will want to use something like laquer thinner to remove the residue from that just before prepping for whatever you use as a protective coating.

There are lots of choices, everything from having it powder coated, which is probably best but not cheapest, to something like rhino liner spray, which is another good option.
Dave. Have you used something like rhino before? Since this is not the intended application, it would be nice to hear some first hand experience.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 10:32 AM   #6
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I personally have not, I'm a carpenter so it's just too easy to build wood stands, though I have to admit a metal stand is superior in most ways.

I have however seen many people on here using the rhino liner or similar products and it seems to work pretty well.

The key for longevity though is to get a grip on that rust, surface rust usually is not too hard to remove if it is indeed just surface rust.

WD40 is usually very good at doing this, and the main ingredient in it is actually fish oil.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 03:43 PM   #7
Fredfish
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Interesting observations on cleaning up rust. I plan to start with a wire wheel. That should get the loose stuff. I can follow up with WD 40 since I have some on hand.

The guy I got the stand from gave me his left over tremclad. If its still good, I'll start with that, otherwise I can pick up some rust primer.

I've pretty much decided to give the truck bed liner a go. The two products easily available here in Canada are EZ liner and Dupli-Colour liner. Don't know how good either of those are.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 06:40 PM   #8
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I'm sure most likely fine as long as you prep properly, prep is 90% of any good paint or finish.
Laquer thinner has always been a good go to for me for a pre cleaner to remove any oils or waxes or anything that prevents things from really sticking.
Also if you wire wheel try to get something on it to protect bare metal asap, primer or whatever, surface rust can come back very quickly.


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Unread 02/18/2018, 09:56 PM   #9
Fredfish
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Hmm, good point. If I go to bare metal I need a primer.


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Unread 02/19/2018, 09:36 PM   #10
Salty Waffles
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For rust removal, look at Naval Jelly.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 01:04 AM   #11
Fredfish
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This is going to be a little more difficult than I thought. Turns out whoever painted it did not prep properly. I've got rust under what looks like good paint and there are sections where the paint flakes off to bare metal.

Sigh. If this were summer I could just take it outside and strip it down with industrial paint stripper. Not sure what my options are.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 01:19 AM   #12
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Just saw Homedepot has cans of spray on bed liner. I might even try that stuff for inside my stand.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 09:45 AM   #13
davocean
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If you want it to last a long time, it's probably going to need to be stripped


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Unread 02/20/2018, 11:19 AM   #14
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Find a product called Extend. It bonds with the rust. I've used it on several things and I like it. You wire brush off the loose stuff and paint it on. It bonds with the rust somehow and seals. Then just paint it with anything.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 01:55 PM   #15
Fredfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davocean View Post
If you want it to last a long time, it's probably going to need to be stripped
That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to.

To last: Strip it, prime with a marine primer, topcoat with epoxy. I might be able to get away just using something like Owatrol marine corrosive primer. Just have to pretend the stand is a bilge.

Good enough??: strip what's loose, prime with anti rust primer, topcoat with truck bed liner.

Unfortunately, the appropriate epoxy paint needs to be applied in a well ventilated place, ie: not my appartment.

Tremclad or similar are not going to do squat. Salt will work its way through typical household paints, probably within a year.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 03:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbow View Post
Find a product called Extend. It bonds with the rust. I've used it on several things and I like it. You wire brush off the loose stuff and paint it on. It bonds with the rust somehow and seals. Then just paint it with anything.
I admit I don't know this product, but I'm not sure anything really bonds to rust, it may just lay over it and bury it pretty well, but I doubt it's a permanent solution.

We typically nickname rust cancer, and in the same way, if you don't remove it all, it will come back.


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Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD
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Unread 02/20/2018, 03:04 PM   #17
Fredfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbow View Post
Find a product called Extend. It bonds with the rust. I've used it on several things and I like it. You wire brush off the loose stuff and paint it on. It bonds with the rust somehow and seals. Then just paint it with anything.
The surface rust is the easy part. Getting to all the rust under paint and then keeping the salt out are the challenges, the last one being the biggest.

There is no way to know if a particular bit of paint has adhered to metal or has rust under it.

There are a number of ways to solve this, its just a mater of cost and equipment/space access.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredfish View Post
That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to.

To last: Strip it, prime with a marine primer, topcoat with epoxy. I might be able to get away just using something like Owatrol marine corrosive primer. Just have to pretend the stand is a bilge.

Good enough??: strip what's loose, prime with anti rust primer, topcoat with truck bed liner.

Unfortunately, the appropriate epoxy paint needs to be applied in a well ventilated place, ie: not my appartment.

Tremclad or similar are not going to do squat. Salt will work its way through typical household paints, probably within a year.
Probably even rustoleum will be fine for primer, and then either epoxy or the vinyl liner spray over that.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 03:40 PM   #19
jimbow
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Here is a link to the extend website http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/s_t...eutralizer.htm

I have used it on boat trailers and several old items I wanted to use outside as decorations (old wagon wheel, old barrel rings ETC). It worked well and I didn't get any rust through. The wagon wheel was done like 10 years ago. It doesn't get direct weather but it does sit outside. It doesn't cover pits and things like that. I'd think you would not get rust through after painting it good. That said sand blasting and powder coating would work better. I've actually found the powder coating has gotten reasonable.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 01:43 AM   #20
Fredfish
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Probably even rustoleum will be fine for primer, and then either epoxy or the vinyl liner spray over that.
That is what I'm thinking, though I have no idea how much additional protection a truckbed liner spray will give.

If I could just convince the local Toyota plant to run my stand through their dip tank. Bet that would last a long time.

I finally found some info on the relative quality of various paint types posted by someone from the Rust-Oleum brand.

In harsh environments:
A good alkaloid paint will last 3-5 years
Epoxy paints are somewhat better
Two part polyurethane paint is much better, though no time span was given.

A two part marine poly is going to run me about double what rustoleum + bed liner would.

Jimbow, I don't doubt that the Extend product is good in regular environments, but salt is extremely corrosive and it gets through pretty much anything. There are some specialty products for highly corrosive environments, but they get very expensive.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 05:07 AM   #21
ReefkeeperZ
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one super important factor in rust removal is neutralizing it not just removing as much as you can, then if you want a tough finish that is extremely resistant to salt I would go for por 15 expensive but good for surfaces that were rusty.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 12:31 PM   #22
Sharpimage
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have you looked into a local sandblaster? I have found them to be cost effective for small stuff like this. Might be worth a google lookup and call.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 04:12 PM   #23
Fredfish
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I finally found something that provides a useful framework for evaluating the various products available and what they might actually do.

From this site: http://coating.ca/anti-corrosion-coating/
  • C1 – very low corrosion risk: Heated buildings with clean air, interiors only. Suitable for: offices, schools, hotels, shops and other heated premises.
  • C2 – low corrosion risk: Unheated buildings, rural areas. Suitable for: storage facilities, sports halls, garages, barns and other unheated buildings.
  • C3 – moderate corrosion risk: Buildings with high humidity, urban and industrial areas. Suitable for: laundries, breweries, kitchens, food processing sites and other buildings with moderate humidity.
  • C4 – high corrosion risk: Chemical manufacturers and swimming baths, industrial and coastal areas. Suitable for: industrial buildings, chemical plants, swimming pools, ports, and ship- and boatyards.
  • C5 – very high corrosion risk: Buildings with almost permanent condensation, offshore and industrial areas. Suitable for: Water pipes and other industrial applications (C5I – industrial). Offshore and maritime constructions (C5M – marine).

What I ideally want is a C4 product:

Inhibitor coatings (C1 – C4) – release a chemical which interferes with the electrolyte and stops the corrosion process.
For example: all oil based coatings with corrosion inhibitor additives such as zinc, aluminum, zinc oxide and so on.

A marine 'below the waterline' inhibiting primer would probably work. Cor15 probably fits into this category as well.

Trouble is that I'm in an apartment and will have a difficult time creating a "well ventilated area" of the right temperature.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 06:04 PM   #24
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I know this seems like overkill to a few people, but if you are going to settle for 'good enough', you should know what that means.

From the link in my previous post, salt seems to be classified as an aggressive chemical.

to me, the appropriate solution for bare metal would be a good quality (industrial or marine) corrosion inhibiting primer followed by a two part polyurethane paint. This requires a well ventilated work space.

Fancy would be starting with an acid etch and following up with a second topcoat material like truckbed liner, though so far I've only seen marketing claims about salt/chemical resistance for these products.

Good enough, probably what I'll end up doing, would be the best anti rust primer I can apply in my situation followed by a one part anti rust topcoat. Adding a second topcoat of some sort probably won't hurt.

From what I can see, the appropriate solution does not cost that much more, maybe $50, and would probably double the life of the coating. The only downside is finding a proper space to do the work.


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Unread 02/22/2018, 07:20 PM   #25
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I have made several stands and coated them with Herculiner. Several stands have been in use for over 10 years with no rust. It is easily applied with a brush. This is a rubberized product that is used to coat truck beds. Staqnds up great and is fairly cheap. Just make sure to buff down to bare metal clean off all residue and coat.


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