My Ultimate Multi Mantis System(s)

[Kharn]

Ok so I have just had confirmation from Dr. Caldwell that if the spearers are kept too long without sand in which to build burrows they will loose the ability to build burrows in the future and loose the ability to produce the mucus to make burrows....

So time is against me and with no "die hard" figures to go off as in how long can a spearer be kept from sand before it looses its ability to construct burrows with mucus....

I have a problem.....possibly a VERY VERY BIG PROBLEM! potentially detrimental to all of STAND C, if the spearers can't burrow then that whole STAND is virtually useless....

[Kharn]

Hopefully I can get water in the tanks by mid next week....by then I hope to have everything practically done I only hope that its not too late for the large spearers else I do not know what I will do....

[GeorgeMonnatJr]

I don't know much about reef tanks, yet, and even less about mantis shrimp. This may be a stupid question. Can you take a QT tank (yours or borrowed) and dump a bunch of sand in it to allow them temporary places to burrow?

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by GeorgeMonnatJr

I don't know much about reef tanks, yet, and even less about mantis shrimp. This may be a stupid question. Can you take a QT tank (yours or borrowed) and dump a bunch of sand in it to allow them temporary places to burrow?

You could. However being temporary, getting it out of its burrow (again) will make for another stressful transaction (hence why I didn't give them sand again) also I had heard that they would be fine without sand, it was only after that I realized I remember how if they DO NOT get sand for X amount of time, they loose the ability to produce mucus and hence make burrows in sand....which is 1/2 of the whole aspect for keeping these magnificent animals... lol

[Kharn]

Should have STAND C up and running/cycling by tomorrow in order to get the large spearers back into a DSB where they belong before its too late for them to create burrows ever again....

[TundraGuy]

Hehehehehehe

[Kharn]

STAND C has been a success!

Although everything is running and operational, the water in there at the moment is just freshwater from the tap to give it all a good "test" and we have run into 2 problems although neither of them are detrimental to the performance of the stand overall.

Firstly (and I need help here from you guys ) when the power goes out, the natural siphon reaction from the canister starts to act in REVERSE aka it sucks water from its output (top tank) and pushes it back out in its intake (bottom tank) which causes the bottom tank to fill, the only way I can prevent this from happening is to do the same thing you do with a typical sump return pumps plumbing where by I drill/cut a hole in the Output tube (top tank) so that when there is a power out and the water starts to get sucked into the OUTPUT, the water drains till it reaches that hole in the tube where by air is sucked and it breaks the siphon effect.

Would this work the same way as a sump return pumps plumbing setup or would I run into a problem ?

Secondly (this may be solved with the top problems solution), the water coming down the Poly Pipe and going into the tank at the bottom is quite fast mostly in part because there is not as much water in the bottom tank (to account for back flow when the power goes out) if I can get the water line up to where it should be in the bottom tank this problem goes away.

So I am thinking I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here by just drilling a hole through the OUTPUT tube JUST under the water line of the Top tank where the OUTPUT tube goes, that way reducing back flow going into the FX5 and back down into the bottom tank since when the water drains to that drill hole, in theory it should break the siphon effect since it is now sucking air.

STAND C overall


STAND C top tank


STAND C bottom tank


We ran out of time today took us 5hrs to get it all going and done, also running into this slight problem (I am virtually 99.9% positive that i just need to drill a hole or 2 high up in the output tube to prevent this happening is all, in theory the canister IS just a "over the top" return pump xD.

MUCH more to come

P.S. Ironically ALLLLL day both Morgoth & Leviathan were out of there burrows staring at me, I got a feeling they know whats up and are getting excited xD

[Kharn]

I hope this makes clearer what I am talking about, there is a current output setup and what I am describing above output setup, like I said above its exactly the same as a normal return pump design basically.....

Also for the curious few, the FX5 has automatic purging, once a day (or at power out) it will pump all the air out of itself.

I really hope this fixes the problem as it would not only be easy but it would solve the problem with the bottom tank having too little water hence the bulkhead is quite above the water line and it dumps the water coming from the above tank creating splashing etc and a lot of water disturbance.



As I said above I am 99.9% positive this should solve my issues on both ends (drilling a hole in the output means I don't have to compensate for as much air gap in the bottom tank that there currently is in order to take on the water from the top tank incase of power outtage).

sorry for repeating myself a lot lol just want to be as clear as possible!

cheers for any help or advice you can give.

[Kharn]

drilled hole in FX5 OUTPUT hose above its bulkhead worked a charm!

[MantisO_o]

It looks good!

[Bluemon]

it looks really nice.

just put the mantis in already -__-

[Kharn]

The freshwater in there is a test, the Poly Pipe started to leak last night!!

So I pulled the piping apart, wrapped some teflon tape around the threads and used PVC cement to help bond it all and make it water tight.

Picking up sand, water and live rock today to get it cycling ASAP

As far as the Live Rock goes in this tank I am not sure if I am going to keep it in there long term, I am more likely to just use the Live Rock for the duration of the cycle and maybe sometime after, the current plan is to divide both tanks on STAND C with eggcrate sheeting (neatly) running a length along the bottom of the tank then running a length up the middle of the tank (upside down 'T'), Morgoth is going in the top tank whilst Leviathan shall reside in the slightly larger bottom tank, the live rock in each tank will be in the vacant half that isn't being occupied by a spearer currently but when I get another 2 the live rock will have to go cause there will be next to no space....

There is a good 2 feet of open space behind each stand for future modifications like if I want to add sump(s) behind the stands.

Lol you can see Randy Couture in the reflection of the top tank and even he is cheering for me =P

I really want to get water in this or more importantly the 2 large spearers so it MUST start cycling today! I just need to go to a greek food festival we got on down here first as it only comes around once a year and the food is to DIE for!

EDIT: I do not want Live Rock in the spearer tanks (in the end) because it will also create places for "prey" to run and hide in which is def going to happen when ever I give them live food and the primary design of the tank is for maximum live food viewing, filming, photographing etc.

[Kharn]

Ok so today I went and got the sand / water to start cycling the new tanks, I forgot to get Live Rock so I just chucked a piece in each compartment from my current 'temp tank' although it is "practically" done, I still want more sand in both tanks particularly the top tank its just that.......I bought all of my LFS aragonite sand lol so now they have none left till there next shipment, admittedly they were low on it anyway something I prayed to not happen -_- so I got 100Kg's of Aragonite sand splitting it into 2/3 (bottom tank) 1/3 top tank, I'll top them both up this coming weekend.

Here is how STAND C looks now and will look in the end with a bit more sand lol.... (- live rock in each compartment and + mantis in each compartment ).

STAND C (overall)


STAND C (top tank) (needs twice the amount of Aragonite sand currently in it).


STAND C (bottom tank) (needs about another 7.5cm -10cm depth of Aragonite sand)


More to come can't wait for this baby to be cycled and ready to take on my current large spearers and by dividing the tanks well its obvious that I want 2 more large spearers .

[Kharn]

One thing I have noticed which is a good & bad thing I guess.....

The FX5 output is to powerful for a 32mm dia hole to push water through, if the FX5 is left on full flow, the top tank overflows because the 32mm dia cannot handle the amount of flow coming from the FX5 if the FX5 is on full, by halving the flow of the FX5 (twisting the knobs on top) I have slowed the flow down dramatically and I kept fidgeting with it last night to get the most flow I can but at the same time retaining a static (not changing) top tank water line.

What this tells me is that I will need to do the same with the other 2 stands in order to slow there flow down, SO basically what I am getting at is........I DO NOT need those DIY difusers that I got in and made up since the FX5 itself can slow the incoming water down, this is good because it gives a lot more room in each of the compartments that were going to house the DIY difusers!

To my knowledge (I'm about 75% sure about this) as far as canister filters go and there mechanics, is that you can slow the OUTPUT down to as much as needed but you CANNOT change the INPUT because it can damage the canister filter internally, luckily the INPUT doesn't fall into any problems being on full "suck".

[TheFishTeen]

Originally Posted by Kharn

To my knowledge (I'm about 75% sure about this) as far as canister filters go and there mechanics, is that you can slow the OUTPUT down to as much as needed but you CANNOT change the INPUT because it can damage the canister filter internally, luckily the INPUT doesn't fall into any problems being on full "suck".

The concept applies to all pumps or pump-driven units, not specifically canister filters. Usually (if not always), the output can be valved down and restricted without putting damaging pressure on the pump or the impeller. But restricting the input can and in most cases, will.

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by TheFishTeen

The concept applies to all pumps or pump-driven units, not specifically canister filters. Usually (if not always), the output can be valved down and restricted without putting damaging pressure on the pump or the impeller. But restricting the input can and in most cases, will.

I thought so I just can't recall where I read about it.

Thanks for clarification though makes me feel more comfortable now.

[Bluemon]

Looks great! couldnt you just get a huge refugium with rocks from established systems for an insta-cycle?

[Kharn]

Originally Posted by Bluemon

Looks great! couldnt you just get a huge refugium with rocks from established systems for an insta-cycle?

Whilst it may be possible to do that, I do not have it nor can I get it from anywhere local, however I did get some of that Seachem "Stability" which kick starts the cycle with bacteria, so I am not sure how long it will take but I do know that the full 4-6weeks won't necessarily be needed for the cycle, if I recall rite..............I actually added Morgoth (my first spearer) to its tank 2 weeks after setup and well its obvious he wasn't phased since he is still with me now =).

Whenever the tests read stable is when I will add them =).

[Kharn]

STAND C - officially finished (cycling).

Ok, so today I went back to the LFS and bargained with a different staff member into buying the rest of the Aragonite sand they had in stock which I saw in there warehouse yesterday whilst the member from yesterday took me out back (wrong move) to show me what they had stating how the bags I got today were to be sold with kits as total setups.

Anyway, I got a dif staff member today and asked him about the aragonite sand he said they had basically none but he thought he saw some out the back earlier I confirmed it stating it was actually rhetorical, making me gain a strange confused look from him.

So I took the last 100kg's of Aragonite sand they had out back too leaving the store with none xD but hey...they are there to sell stuff rite, if not I take my cash else where =P.

Funny thing is I actually forgot to get media for the canister filter yesterday so I got it today (the primary reason I went to the LFS) the typical FX5 has 3 levels (baskets) outter rim is foam, the bottom center compartment is full of dead coral chunks 1-2inchs long per piece, the middle compartment is a 50/50 mix of dead coral chunks and seachem matrix (1L) (they didn't have any left in stock so I bought what they had left of the matrix...in theory I wanted to fill the canister with seachem matrix media). In the top compartment is Seachem DeNitrate (1L) & a large (1 full unit) of Chemi Pure Elite

Here is stand c now, with the increase depth in sand.

STAND C - overall


STAND C - top tank


STAND C - bottom tank


So now that it is cycling the only thing left to do is add Morgoth (Top Left) and Leviathan (Bottom Left), you can see in the Bottom Tank that there is already a hitch hiker, a chiton about 2inchs long.

[Kharn]

STAND C was always going to be the most difficult system in all aspects from making the stands to setting it all up but now that it is done and cycling I can move to the easier, STAND A & B which are both slightly smaller in length (but hold 3 tanks instead of 2) also now that I have fidgeted with the FX5 more I have found my "Golden Zone Output" where by I can maximize the flow leaving the FX5 (since its not on full OUTPUT) whilst also maintaining the same level of water in both tanks along with getting the bulkhead of the bottom tank to be under water silencing it (if the bulk head is out of the water you hear a gluging/chugging noise).

I plan on getting both STAND A & B done this week and then running by the weekend, all I need to do is put the hoods on the stands drill the lights in the stands, the put each tank in place and I'm ready to fill them! Just that this whole spearers being without sand for long enough then dropping the ability to "manipulate" sand aka make burrows frightens me quite a bit and I want my spearers in there tanks ASAP!!

[TundraGuy]

super cool man!

[Kharn]

A few critters have crawled out in the night when I woke up this morning that large chiton was no where to be seen however I am now starting to see stomatellas in STAND C tanks, which is always a good sign to see them =)

[Kharn]

I can't help but wonder if I should put more Live Rock in the tanks to help aid in its cycling ?

Could there be anything else I could do to help aid the cycling (I don't want to say speed up xD cause it sounds negligent towards the stomatopods going in). Having said that anything I CAN DO to help "Aid/Speedup" the cycling process I would be willing to try for the sake of the spearers.

Seeing those stomatella made me wonder since they only really appear when tanks are healthy / cycled (or so I assume) I saw NONE in my large original tank that I had the spearers in DURING the cycle it was for 4-6weeks that I started to see them come out and then they just took over xD could see heaps everywhere, a welcome site in my view.

Not sure about chitons and how they tolerate things but I always assumed snails/slugs are very touchy and are the first (large) things to die off that you can see if things start to go bad/nasty, so seeing the stomatella made me wonder...

Any ideas / help be appreciated!

[Kharn]

OK

So I mentioned a while back about a certain product that can help me make a "man made mantis home" and its pritty good stuff too, basically its man made live rock and they come in cubes/balls, basically I just plan on boring 2inch holes throughout each one and place each one in there own compartment, then to give it a more natural look, I'll hack around the edges of the hole so it looses that "perfect circle" shape making it more natural, along with hack off the corners/edges of the cube and in general just make it look more "natural" like a normal rock, once the algae does its job it will essentially be a normal rock just.

On the webpage of the site you can see an example of the stuff in a tank with fish and how they have been drilled and warped to look more natural, there are lots of caves and holes which on my first look at them, they seem PERFECT for a smashers home.

The Site: http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure.php

I figured I would probably get 1 (8"x8"x4") block per compartment as the primary home for each mantis within the compartment, I will likely put Live Rock rubble on top of this block along with around it to help it all look natural but in the end algae will do its job.

[Kharn]

At an astronomical $100+ per 8x8x4 inch block this idea just got shot to hell!

All up I'd of needed around 12 blocks for $1200.........yeah rite lol

Back to the Live Rock idea.