DIY LED Fixture - Pointers for future build - Page 3

lingwendil · 10/25/2017, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapelan

5 pennies from designing a LED fixture:
1. make it is in standard way:
all drivers should be the same, like all of them 1000mA or all of them 700mA. It will save tons of time when one channel burn out.

Sort of agree. Especially if everything is to be adjustable, it is a lot easier if they are all the same. Socketed drivers (like the LDD series) are also a godsend for troubleshooting purposes. Also makes it easy to simply swap to a lower current driver if you wanted to for better dimming resolution at lower drive currents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapelan

2. About spectrum: somewhere here it was a nice article, in a short: usually 80% royal blue, cyan +red + white = 20%.
I'm actually constantly changing the spectrum because all day blue water is boring - we are enjoying the color of corals, right? So let's change the light to make it nice.

Sort of agree. Red can be overpowering even in small amounts with individual emitters. That's one of the driving reasons behind choosing a high CRI base white. Looking at a warmer white in the 3000-4500k range that is high CRI will naturally have better color rendition than a cooler white usually will. If we already have adequate red spectrum in our white, we don't have to "add it back" by using separate reds for most applications.

Cyan is a good thing, and in conjunction with lime and regular blue helps counteract the pinkish color many of these setups get when using so much royal blue and warmer whites or red supplementation. Cyan is at the edge of a good photosynthetic sweet spot, as well as regular blue, so definitely worth having. Added benefit is the light will appear "brighter" to the eye.

Regular blue is useful for photosynthesis, and for bringing out colors that royal blue can't. Definitely worth having along for the ride. Too much can look like Windex though. Standard cool and neutral whites are usually lacking in both cyan and regular blue (but abundant in royal blue due to the base LED "showing through") so adding them is useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapelan

3. From datasheet they usually note the maximum current. So if it says 700mA - that means 700mA maximum if temperature of heatsink less then 60%. In other words if I have driver for 700mA I will chose LED for 1000mA just to have some buffer.

Definitely. You encounter some diminishing returns once you push them too hard anyway. Going with 70% of the max current is usually a good starting point. For Luxeon series LEDs in particular 700mA is a great point for longevity and efficiency. Going from 700mA to 1A isn't as useful for the near 50% increase in current you only get like ~20% increase in output at much more heat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapelan

4. Heatsink should be big enough to release the heat from LED. So the heatsink should stay warm. Trying to minimize the size will require active air movement, that means noisy cooler.
For each cooler they usually note a nose in dB. Would say > 20dB is unacceptable. Also the size of cooler - the bigger the size the more air flow and less nose.

Definitely. A big fat heatsink and a set of quality 120mm PC fans is a good way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapelan

5. They recommend 5W per gallon. to reduce the light by dimming it is a 5 minute job, but to add some power is a big trouble. So it is better to have a buffer -the bigger the better. At least to make picture - nobody likes blue picture, so this 20% of red+cyan+white should be enough to make a nice daylight picture.

Watts per gallon is largely irrelevant when it comes to LED... PAR and coverage are more important. With so many different types of LED on the market the differences in efficiency can be huge.

Definitely agree on oversizing the capabilities of the fixture. You can always dim it down, or swap drivers out as needed.

MrMan · 10/26/2017, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Might get a little tight for wiring, I really could use a PCB that had 8 drivers on it that are functionally compatible with the LDD series, but the only source I know (O2surplus) has gone dark, so I'm trying to shoehorn everything in the fixture as is.

I actually designed a 6-channel PCB designed to fit in the RapidLED heatsink a while ago but didn't have the funds to build my DIY light so it got shelved. My thought was to have everything inside the enclosure so only 48V input was needed. PCB has a built-in DCDC converter to step down to 6-12V (so you can adjust the max fan speed), 6 channels using the LM3414 (each with pot to adjust current) and Wemos/PCA9685 for PWM dimming. Everything is surface mount so you can mount the board directly to the heatsink to cool the drivers.

If you're interested i could swap the Wemos out for 2 extra channels, although you'd need an extra connector then for PWM.

lingwendil · 10/26/2017, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMan

I actually designed a 6-channel PCB designed to fit in the RapidLED heatsink a while ago but didn't have the funds to build my DIY light so it got shelved. My thought was to have everything inside the enclosure so only 48V input was needed. PCB has a built-in DCDC converter to step down to 6-12V (so you can adjust the max fan speed), 6 channels using the LM3414 (each with pot to adjust current) and Wemos/PCA9685 for PWM dimming. Everything is surface mount so you can mount the board directly to the heatsink to cool the drivers.

If you're interested i could swap the Wemos out for 2 extra channels, although you'd need an extra connector then for PWM.

That is rad!

I wouldn't mind one of those as is! I can always piggyback another board or two off of the PWM pins of the Wemos, since I need several identical channels anyway. One of those boards as is, and another with a couple additional drivers instead would be extremely handy. I need 8 drivers total, but only six channels of control. One of those boards with a blueacro two-channel driver board piggybacking along work be perfect.

Do you have any finished boards yet, or just the files? I'm definitely interested either way.

TimmyD16 · 10/26/2017, 10:26 PM

Those boards do look great, is the fan DC controllable at all? I'd love to see a driver board that had something like a "if I am drawing so much current then switch on my fan output"... Would like to not have an extra board but still have the fan controllable in the event you have to use a two wire fan...

MrMan · 10/27/2017, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

That is rad!

I wouldn't mind one of those as is! I can always piggyback another board or two off of the PWM pins of the Wemos, since I need several identical channels anyway. One of those boards as is, and another with a couple additional drivers instead would be extremely handy. I need 8 drivers total, but only six channels of control. One of those boards with a blueacro two-channel driver board piggybacking along work be perfect.

Do you have any finished boards yet, or just the files? I'm definitely interested either way.

Just the files at this point, never had them made since after pricing out everything it was too much. The parts cost ~$50 and cheapest cost for PCBs is $24 although not sure if that's with shipping. How are you soldering skills? Or would you prefer to buy a populated one?

I did some code based on Blynk although haven't had a chance to really test it yet. I think the board would also be compatible with the SSLAC16 software O2 mentioned before. Also considered replacing the Wemos with a Bluefish mini which would cost more but then i wouldn't have to worry about the software side of things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyD16

Those boards do look great, is the fan DC controllable at all? I'd love to see a driver board that had something like a "if I am drawing so much current then switch on my fan output"... Would like to not have an extra board but still have the fan controllable in the event you have to use a two wire fan...

My plan was to have two connectors for DS18B20s to monitor heatsink/LED temperatures and use that to control when the fan turns ON/OFF. Didn't plan on PWM for the fan since the fan for those premium heatsinks isn't PWM enabled.

The board is 50mm wide and designed to sit at the edge of the heatsink so the barrel plug sticks out, but it could also sit in the middle if the LEDs are right up to the edge of the heatsink.

lingwendil · 10/27/2017, 10:09 AM

I can solder, and can do surface mount components, as long as they don't require reflow type work. Depending on difficulty/cost I would definitely be interested on one or two.

Is that 24$ for a single PCB, or a set?

MrMan · 10/27/2017, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

I can solder, and can do surface mount components, as long as they don't require reflow type work. Depending on difficulty/cost I would definitely be interested on one or two.

Is that 24$ for a single PCB, or a set?

The LM3414 have thermal pads which should be re-flowed, might be possible with a hot air gun. See LM3414HVMRX/NOPBCT-ND on digi-key. Would you want the wemos or Bluefish socket?

MrMan · 10/27/2017, 10:40 AM

The $24 was for 10 pcs, looks like the minimum order is actually 5 pcs for $19 though so not as bad.

lingwendil · 10/27/2017, 09:04 PM

Wemos socket for sure.

19$ for five ain't bad at all! Might be worth ordering ten and splitting them though. I could find a use for that many for sure.

I've got a few wemos on hand to fool with as it is.

What pcb house?

Heat gun huh? I've never actually tried it that way.

MrMan · 10/31/2017, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Wemos socket for sure.

19$ for five ain't bad at all! Might be worth ordering ten and splitting them though. I could find a use for that many for sure.

I've got a few wemos on hand to fool with as it is.

What pcb house?

Heat gun huh? I've never actually tried it that way.

Ok I'll go with the Wemos socket, worst case the SSLAC16 code should work if my Blynk code doesn't. Just finishing a couple things before I order them, was busy over the weekend so didn't get a chance.

lingwendil · 11/01/2017, 07:18 AM

Is there a provision to bring a couple of the existing channels PWM off board to "double up" drivers for multiple strings per channel? Is there a way to bring a couple additional channels of PWM out to external drivers for applications that need more than six channels?

Not asking for changes, just curious.

MrMan · 11/01/2017, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Is there a provision to bring a couple of the existing channels PWM off board to "double up" drivers for multiple strings per channel? Is there a way to bring a couple additional channels of PWM out to external drivers for applications that need more than six channels?

Not asking for changes, just curious.

I wanted to add a connector to bring out more of the PWM signals (we have 16 why not make them available) but I ran out of space to fit anything. I figured since it was designed to be an all-in-one solution (dimming, fan control and 6 channels) i figured it was OK to cut it.

What I could do is just add solder pads in between the outputs for the PWM signals of the main 6 channels. This would let you add additional drivers using the same PWM (ie if you wanted 6 COBs to run off channel 1).

lingwendil · 11/01/2017, 12:12 PM

That's perfect.

Six channels of control is plenty for 99% of the uses I would have in mind anyway. Simply running some wire off board to another set of drivers will work just fine.

Anybody want to split a pack of ten PCBs?

MrMan · 11/02/2017, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

That's perfect.

Six channels of control is plenty for 99% of the uses I would have in mind anyway. Simply running some wire off board to another set of drivers will work just fine.

Anybody want to split a pack of ten PCBs?

Hey I have a quick question for you, how wide are the T-Slots? I got a few drawings from RapidLED but they didn't include that dimension so just want to make sure the holes I make are the correct size.

Also, I was able to fit a small pitch header on the PCB to bring out 8 PWM signals (first 6 used on PCB plus 2 extra).

oreo57 · 11/02/2017, 11:49 AM

suggest the HV version of the driver chip..

lingwendil · 11/02/2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMan

Hey I have a quick question for you, how wide are the T-Slots? I got a few drawings from RapidLED but they didn't include that dimension so just want to make sure the holes I make are the correct size.

I'll try to get some dimensions for you once I'm home from work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMan

Also, I was able to fit a small pitch header on the PCB to bring out 8 PWM signals (first 6 used on PCB plus 2 extra).

Cool. Easier to have it if it's needed later, and being able to plug in a harness to feed offboard components is a nice thing for sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by oreo57

suggest the HV version of the driver chip..

They are pin-compatible, right?

oreo57 · 11/02/2017, 03:44 PM

Should be..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1hiW6xxM5bpk6a

MrMan · 11/03/2017, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

I'll try to get some dimensions for you once I'm home from work.

Cool. Easier to have it if it's needed later, and being able to plug in a harness to feed offboard components is a nice thing for sure!

They are pin-compatible, right?

They are pin compatible, plan on using the high voltage version of the LED driver and DC-DC driver so the input range is 20-60V with output current range of 350-1000mA.

From what I found the T-slots are designed for 4-40 screws so I went with what I found for them.

lingwendil · 11/03/2017, 01:44 PM

Sorry, didn't get a chance to dig it out last night or pull the working one to check. Just finished moving and the house is in chaos.

I really wish rapid would post up some real dimensional drawing of these sorts of products they carry, would be much nicer for planning things out.

When I was in there in person a couple weeks ago (benefits of living in the SF Bay Area

) I brought up the issue with fitting drivers into these, and they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said best bet is to run the drivers in a separate enclosure, since most of their solutions include LDD-LS drivers on the main array PCB these days (hey Theatrus, how about throwing a pair of drivers on your acrostar pucks?

definitely a market...) and may eventually offer something similar for DIY, but have no current plans to.

MrMan · 11/08/2017, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lingwendil

Sorry, didn't get a chance to dig it out last night or pull the working one to check. Just finished moving and the house is in chaos.

I really wish rapid would post up some real dimensional drawing of these sorts of products they carry, would be much nicer for planning things out.

When I was in there in person a couple weeks ago (benefits of living in the SF Bay Area

) I brought up the issue with fitting drivers into these, and they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said best bet is to run the drivers in a separate enclosure, since most of their solutions include LDD-LS drivers on the main array PCB these days (hey Theatrus, how about throwing a pair of drivers on your acrostar pucks?

definitely a market...) and may eventually offer something similar for DIY, but have no current plans to.

Sure would be nice to live within driving distance instead of paying 30+ for shipping anything cuz you're in Canada

Had a fever/cold the last few days so didn't finish the PCB till today. After putting everything into the site the cost was $50 with shipping and an unknown import duty. Since you're the only one planning on building one at this point wanted to make sure you're OK with the few extra bucks per PCB before ordering and I can't PM you yet.

saf1 · 11/09/2017, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyD16

Not sold on much of anything at this point, and those 48W Pro Blue boards do look pretty slick....

I might just have to pivot to two of those... It looks like it will be a bit more expensive, but if the light will be more versatile and future proof then I'll probably be all for it... I really like those RapidLED enclosures, but anyone know of a controllable fan that fits in that area? Something I can control with the Storm LED controller?

Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

TimmyD16 · 11/11/2017, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saf1

Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

That is what I've been primarily looking at, it is the only pre-built LED module board that has the features that I am looking for, primarily the use of warm/nuetral white, and lime light spectrums.

Though I have recently been contemplating with the idea of a panel type of arrangement to better increase the spread of light for SPS...

Let us know how it all goes! they seem like great lights.

lingwendil · 11/11/2017, 07:53 PM

^ same. I love the two on my 20 long, and would love to see a nice build with the big boys. When I pull the fixture soon to put on the big build, they are coming out and going into a pair of Aavid Thermaloy heatsinks, with a pair of synjet coolers for pendant use...

bblumberg · 11/12/2017, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saf1

Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

You will like those. I am running 3 on my 150g with 4 x 80W T5 supplements. I have 3 more and 4 LumiLEDs high CRI neutral whites to add when I can find the time to take the canopy off and fiddle with it.

If you want good penetration to 30", it might be necessary to leave the diffusers off.

saf1 · 11/12/2017, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblumberg

You will like those. I am running 3 on my 150g with 4 x 80W T5 supplements. I have 3 more and 4 LumiLEDs high CRI neutral whites to add when I can find the time to take the canopy off and fiddle with it.

If you want good penetration to 30", it might be necessary to leave the diffusers off.

Thanks for the tip - will compare on/off and see. I'll have the 4 with a pair of the Borealis Luxeon Z from RapidLED mixed in. Like I noted I'll probably order another pair of the Acrostar's just to be safe. I can always tone down intensity via controller anyway and they are not that expensive

I'll check the diffuser - ty.

10/26/2017, 10:26 PM	#54
TimmyD16 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 280	Those boards do look great, is the fan DC controllable at all? I'd love to see a driver board that had something like a "if I am drawing so much current then switch on my fan output"... Would like to not have an extra board but still have the fan controllable in the event you have to use a two wire fan... __________________ ~TimmyD “Jellyfish are 97% water or something, so how much are they doing? Just give them another 3% and make them water. It's more useful.” Karl Pilkington

10/27/2017, 10:09 AM	#56
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	I can solder, and can do surface mount components, as long as they don't require reflow type work. Depending on difficulty/cost I would definitely be interested on one or two. Is that 24$ for a single PCB, or a set? __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.

10/27/2017, 09:04 PM	#59
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	Wemos socket for sure. 19$ for five ain't bad at all! Might be worth ordering ten and splitting them though. I could find a use for that many for sure. I've got a few wemos on hand to fool with as it is. What pcb house? Heat gun huh? I've never actually tried it that way. __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.

11/01/2017, 07:18 AM	#61
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	Is there a provision to bring a couple of the existing channels PWM off board to "double up" drivers for multiple strings per channel? Is there a way to bring a couple additional channels of PWM out to external drivers for applications that need more than six channels? Not asking for changes, just curious. __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.

11/01/2017, 12:12 PM	#63
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	That's perfect. Six channels of control is plenty for 99% of the uses I would have in mind anyway. Simply running some wire off board to another set of drivers will work just fine. Anybody want to split a pack of ten PCBs? __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings. Last edited by lingwendil; 11/01/2017 at 12:20 PM.

10/27/2017, 10:40 AM	#58
MrMan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20	The $24 was for 10 pcs, looks like the minimum order is actually 5 pcs for $19 though so not as bad.

11/02/2017, 11:49 AM	#65
oreo57 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,793	suggest the HV version of the driver chip..

11/02/2017, 03:44 PM	#67
oreo57 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,793	Should be.. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...1hiW6xxM5bpk6a

11/03/2017, 01:44 PM	#69
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	Sorry, didn't get a chance to dig it out last night or pull the working one to check. Just finished moving and the house is in chaos. I really wish rapid would post up some real dimensional drawing of these sorts of products they carry, would be much nicer for planning things out. When I was in there in person a couple weeks ago (benefits of living in the SF Bay Area ) I brought up the issue with fitting drivers into these, and they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said best bet is to run the drivers in a separate enclosure, since most of their solutions include LDD-LS drivers on the main array PCB these days (hey Theatrus, how about throwing a pair of drivers on your acrostar pucks? definitely a market...) and may eventually offer something similar for DIY, but have no current plans to. __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.

11/11/2017, 07:53 PM	#73
lingwendil Man who sold the world Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakley, behind enemy lines in communist occupied California. Posts: 254	^ same. I love the two on my 20 long, and would love to see a nice build with the big boys. When I pull the fixture soon to put on the big build, they are coming out and going into a pair of Aavid Thermaloy heatsinks, with a pair of synjet coolers for pendant use... __________________ LED snob. Unapologetic Luxeon Rebel and Bridgelux Vero fanboy. Every time a fluorescent or halide fixture is scrapped, an angel gets its wings.