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Unread 02/15/2018, 03:21 PM   #1
Dantique
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No emergency overflo....help!!!

I have attached a picture of my 90g overflo config. I currently have one drain and one return. Is there anyway I can have an emergency overflo, short of draining and drilling.
My only thought would be to use the return side as the emergency and have the return looped over the top edge of the tank?
I have had a small flood already from a partially obstructed drain valve. I'm not exactly sure what valve was placed on the drain. The guy I bought it from may have put a needle valve down there.


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Unread 02/15/2018, 03:38 PM   #2
Dantique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantique View Post
I have attached a picture of my 90g overflo config. I currently have one drain and one return. Is there anyway I can have an emergency overflo, short of draining and drilling.
My only thought would be to use the return side as the emergency and have the return looped over the top edge of the tank?
I have had a small flood already from a partially obstructed drain valve. I'm not exactly sure what valve was placed on the drain. The guy I bought it from may have put a needle valve down there.



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Unread 02/15/2018, 04:40 PM   #3
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yep...over the top return and use pipe 2 for the other drain..

A good replacement for a true emergency drain is to simply insure that the section of your sump where the return pump is small enough that the pump runs dry before your tank overflows..


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Unread 02/15/2018, 04:51 PM   #4
gonereefing654
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I assuming you have that valve in place to dial in the drain noise.
Look up plans for a better Dorso stand pipe. Yours is probably slurping like crazy. You can add a air valve to the top to let a controlled amount of air in. That will stop your noise
Then I would open that valve all the way.
You really can’t use a valve on a drain unless you have an emergency drain also.
I might even re do the the drain line after the bulk head in 1 1/2” just to insure no bottle necks.


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Unread 02/15/2018, 05:28 PM   #5
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Google Herbie overflow


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Unread 02/15/2018, 09:24 PM   #6
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+1 to using an over the tank return and turning the return you have now into an emergency drain.


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Unread 02/15/2018, 10:52 PM   #7
tkeracer619
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Go over the top.

Also, you need to put a screen on that drain. You must never have an obstruction in the drain pipe that is smaller than the intake. That gate valve inline without a screen on the intake is asking for disaster.


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Unread 02/16/2018, 12:28 AM   #8
laverda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeracer619 View Post
Go over the top.

Also, you need to put a screen on that drain. You must never have an obstruction in the drain pipe that is smaller than the intake. That gate valve inline without a screen on the intake is asking for disaster.
I agree. If you have a good screen an emergency drain really should not be needed.


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Unread 02/16/2018, 11:44 PM   #9
Dantique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonereefing654 View Post
I assuming you have that valve in place to dial in the drain noise.
Look up plans for a better Dorso stand pipe. Yours is probably slurping like crazy. You can add a air valve to the top to let a controlled amount of air in. That will stop your noise
Then I would open that valve all the way.
You really can’t use a valve on a drain unless you have an emergency drain also.
I might even re do the the drain line after the bulk head in 1 1/2” just to insure no bottle necks.
There is a hole drilled on top of the drain pipe that has a very small piece of acrylic tubing inserted. It doesn't seem to help with the noise at all.

Thanks for the screen advice tkeracer619. I do not have one currently


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Unread 02/17/2018, 12:56 AM   #10
tkeracer619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantique View Post
There is a hole drilled on top of the drain pipe that has a very small piece of acrylic tubing inserted. It doesn't seem to help with the noise at all.

Thanks for the screen advice tkeracer619. I do not have one currently
You're welcome!

You're going to want to get rid of your whole drain setup as it stands now. You should go over the top with the return, redo the drain to be a herbie full siphon, and setup an emergency drain. The valve... should be a gate valve and needs to be by the sump.

Basement sumps work best in full siphon. They are also silent and you will have a lot less salt creep since your drain output won't look like a skimmer pump. Watch videos on herbie drains.


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Unread 02/19/2018, 01:40 AM   #11
Dantique
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tkeracer619 I went to Youtube and watched some vids on Herbie Overflows. To be honest, I never found a good video that explains the setup. Mostly "this is what it looks like when I turn the valve". From what I am seeing, It looks just like a regular stand pipe with no fitting on the end. I will have to research more in the next few days.
Thanks, Dan


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Unread 02/19/2018, 07:57 AM   #12
TxAggie08
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Herbie is a full siphon with emergency drain system.

You install a standpipe that is sealed, no air enters, and it pulls a full siphon. Zero noise, more flow than 2 or 3 dursos could give even remotely silent. You install a GATE valve near the end of the siphon line, and the end of that line is at least 1" below the surface. Once the siphon is established, you adjust the gate valve to control the flow in the siphon line to match that of your pump. It's very simple to tune, and once it's set you're not going to be fiddling much with it.

The second stand pipe is at a height below the point the tank will overflow, and remains dry unless the primary siphon becomes blocked, at which point it starts draining. If it completely submerges, it should pull a siphon as well.

I prefer the redundancy of the bean animal style, but that's not an option for you. Herbie's design is meant for someone in the same boat you are, with only two holes.

If that gate is on the current primary drain, plug the airhole, submerge the end in the sump 1/2 to 1" and tune the siphon. Convert the other to be a dry emergency stand pipe, and you have a herbie


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Unread 02/19/2018, 05:44 PM   #13
Dantique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxAggie08 View Post
Herbie is a full siphon with emergency drain system.

You install a standpipe that is sealed, no air enters, and it pulls a full siphon. Zero noise, more flow than 2 or 3 dursos could give even remotely silent. You install a GATE valve near the end of the siphon line, and the end of that line is at least 1" below the surface. Once the siphon is established, you adjust the gate valve to control the flow in the siphon line to match that of your pump. It's very simple to tune, and once it's set you're not going to be fiddling much with it.

The second stand pipe is at a height below the point the tank will overflow, and remains dry unless the primary siphon becomes blocked, at which point it starts draining. If it completely submerges, it should pull a siphon as well.

I prefer the redundancy of the bean animal style, but that's not an option for you. Herbie's design is meant for someone in the same boat you are, with only two holes.

If that gate is on the current primary drain, plug the airhole, submerge the end in the sump 1/2 to 1" and tune the siphon. Convert the other to be a dry emergency stand pipe, and you have a herbie
TxAggie08, your explanation was well written and answers my questions. Thanks for taking time to help me out.
Dan


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Unread 02/19/2018, 06:06 PM   #14
Dantique
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May sound like a stupid question....but? Will my corner overflow hold back the water if I drain it to work on the stand pipes and bulkheads? Just never tried it before.


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Unread 02/19/2018, 11:30 PM   #15
TxAggie08
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No problem, I'm glad it made some sense

That's a good question tbh, and one I'm not 100% sure on. Acrylic to glass bonds with silicone are not terribly strong, but since it's compressing not expanding, I think you would be ok. I would test the theory first by training the overflow with the pipe in place, and the tank as low as you can get it safely. if it doesn't fail I THINK you could be ok. I would just work quickly and have the new standpipes pre-cut and installed on the bulkheads. get them in and sealed off as fast as possible, and get the overflow with water back in it as quickly as practically possible up to the top of the standpipes.

I THINK you should be ok, but I'm not making guarantees, and others may chime in that have worked on one before. I have never, in the several tanks I have had drilled, owned a bottom drilled unit before the 200 I'm getting this week, they've all been back overflows.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 12:50 PM   #16
sethd12
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Yes, the overflow will hold the water back just fine. I have done it several times when cleaning/repairing things in tanks.


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Unread 02/20/2018, 11:43 PM   #17
Dantique
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Will I have issues creating a full siphon when I go to a Herbie overflow, I will have a 10 to 12 foot downward sloping run to the sump? Not vertical but a gradual 8 foot drop.


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Unread 02/21/2018, 04:16 PM   #18
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@dantique in my experience as long as the sump is below the water and flows downward you should have no issues


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Unread 02/21/2018, 08:36 PM   #19
Dantique
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@dantique in my experience as long as the sump is below the water and flows downward you should have no issues
Thank you gmneil


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Unread 02/22/2018, 10:44 PM   #20
tkeracer619
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Oh yeah it will drain just fine. Try to put the gate valve as close to the sump as you can which will help restart the siphon after power out.

I actually keep water trickling down my emergency drain. The emergency is setup as a Durso with a strainer and the air vent that if the main drain clogs for some reason the emergency will become a full siphon.

My run is over 25ft. Dead silent.


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