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Unread 02/23/2012, 12:17 PM   #26
brandon429
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The thesis of the thread is that the action taken to remove an invader isn't the same as what you do to prevent them

the prevention stage for this tank comes after the removal stage

at least you have some really good actions given to you in this thread! If you run both the removal and prevention methods given by everyone ha should never be a problem again for ya


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Unread 02/23/2012, 12:27 PM   #27
Bluetangclan
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I had this problem years ago on my first tank. I was using tap water. What I did was switch to store bought water(I have later gotten a RO/DI). This helped slow it down. Then I added a sump(20 gallon tank) with an overflow off to the side(store bought stand and undrilled tank). I had two BAK-Pack2 skimmers on it and added a light to grow macro under. Brought it under control within 2 months. I try to stay as low tech as I can.


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Unread 02/23/2012, 01:45 PM   #28
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I have to agree with Brandon. You can have GHA in a tank with extremely low po4 and no3 and it wont necessarily starve it off. Many of us have removed the GHA from the tank and cooked the rock and after a month the algae persists regardless of not having light, and fresh RODI water every so often. There are different types of GHA and some are nearly impossible to get rid of without manual removal and then making sure nutrients are low as so it doesnt return like it did in the first place. Once you have it, your battle has begun..

Peroxide does work really well at removing GHA, its just not always practical depending on tank size.

Again to OP.. Check your PO4 and NO3, if they are high then you know where to start. Reduce them and your problem MIGHT go away, and it MIGHT not. If it doesnt, then manual removal is in order


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Unread 02/23/2012, 01:51 PM   #29
Allmost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrawr View Post
I have to agree with Brandon. You can have GHA in a tank with extremely low po4 and no3 and it wont necessarily starve it off. Many of us have removed the GHA from the tank and cooked the rock and after a month the algae persists regardless of not having light, and fresh RODI water every so often. There are different types of GHA and some are nearly impossible to get rid of without manual removal and then making sure nutrients are low as so it doesnt return like it did in the first place. Once you have it, your battle has begun..

Peroxide does work really well at removing GHA, its just not always practical depending on tank size.

Again to OP.. Check your PO4 and NO3, if they are high then you know where to start. Reduce them and your problem MIGHT go away, and it MIGHT not. If it doesnt, then manual removal is in order
yap gotta remove all the algae, manually

even dead pieces would leack out po4.



Last edited by Allmost; 02/23/2012 at 02:05 PM.
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Unread 02/23/2012, 02:04 PM   #30
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Let me ask you this , how old are your light bulbs? I had a HUGE outbreak in my 150 and come to find out by luck (one of the bulbs blew) it was my halides. I put 2 brand new bulbs in and it was all dead within 72 hours. Plus If you want get yourself a small tang. Those things love it.


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Unread 02/23/2012, 02:06 PM   #31
jimrawr
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while it MIGHT work at KILLING ALGAE AND OTHER STUFF, saying you dont have to worry about water quality is a wrong, and useless statement.

if there is nutritions, light, and no algae, there is problem !

leave a bucket of water outside, under sun for a week, see what happens.

now add bleach to it and leave it outside, nothing would happen, yes, correct, but that just means nothing is alive in there

of course, the algae hs to be MANUALLY removed, no algae walks out of water and leaves. even if water nutritions are lowered, and algae dies, it will release its toxins and nutritions, soit HAS to be removed, you are right on that.

but removing algae, withouth caring for water quality, means algae would come back, in another form or shape maybe.

its wrong to make new ppl think one way is the BEST or ONLY way, I just hate seeing that ... give the option to the OP, and let him/her decide
Not sure if you are directing this at me(assuming so since you quoted me), but all my posts here stated that the first thing he has to do is check his PO4 and NO3..So not sure why you are saying I made a useless statement, when I never made it at all. My point was simply that if you have GHA you can starve your tank of PO4 and NO3 to the point that is capable for us in reef tanks, and you aren't guaranteed that it will go away. Many have run GFO extremely aggressively only to see SPS all die before GHA. Also you can export without manual removing in some cases, like building a turf scrubber that will out compete the algae in the display.

I have seen multiple tanks with my own eyes and testing kits with PO4 > .5 and ZERO algae in the tank, great SPS growth and colors. I have also seen tanks with .01-.04 PO4 and algae growth.


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Unread 02/23/2012, 02:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jimrawr View Post
Not sure if you are directing this at me(assuming so since you quoted me), but all my posts here stated that the first thing he has to do is check his PO4 and NO3..So not sure why you are saying I made a useless statement, when I never made it at all. My point was simply that if you have GHA you can starve your tank of PO4 and NO3 to the point that is capable for us in reef tanks, and you aren't guaranteed that it will go away. Many have run GFO extremely aggressively only to see SPS all die before GHA. Also you can export without manual removing in some cases, like building a turf scrubber that will out compete the algae in the display.

I have seen multiple tanks with my own eyes and testing kits with PO4 > .5 and ZERO algae in the tank, great SPS growth and colors. I have also seen tanks with .01-.04 PO4 and algae growth.
sorry jimrawr, I agree with ure post didnt mean to quote you, so I edited it


my statement about water quality was with regards to brandons post. but dont want to start an argument so ...

my bad about the misquote

about scrubber ... the scrubber will not remove the dead pieces of algae, so those need to be removed still.[ ôr get eaten by fish or snail]

the tanks with algae and no po4 TESTABLE, make sense, as the algae is taking up the free po4

po4 of BIGGER THAN 0.5 and healthy and happy SPS ? hmmm, testing error.


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Unread 02/23/2012, 02:23 PM   #33
Leena2674
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I have two cowries, a Chestnut Cowrie and a Tiger Cowrie... both love GHA. They have gotten into all the hard-to-reach places.


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Unread 02/23/2012, 03:55 PM   #34
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I would check NO3 and PO4, and when they are both down to 0 get a sea hare, Mine ate up the stuff like there was no tomorrow


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Unread 02/23/2012, 03:57 PM   #35
brandon429
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I agree with the tang idea too, in larger tanks its so nice to have a little beastie that will pick all the nooks and crannies. The peroxide is just a super form of manual removal if its worth the effort to rid the tank of the pest in one fell swoop.

We still have a few large tank keepers on the thread (Simon for one) who did the big work of removing rocks and spot treating, several from the nr thread too, thats when I feel sorry for large tank keepers. Nano reef keepers have it so much easier!


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Unread 02/23/2012, 04:00 PM   #36
ganjero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cidcaltrop View Post
I would check NO3 and PO4, and when they are both down to 0 get a sea hare, Mine ate up the stuff like there was no tomorrow
They might be at zero already. Most of the time when you have that much HA, the algae is eating them up and your readings show 0.

I would check the Algaefix Marine thread in Chemistry Forum for a quick removal of the algae, and do one or some of the mentioned methods for regular maintenance and control of nutrients .


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Unread 02/23/2012, 08:03 PM   #37
Crush Coral
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No NO or PO. Bults T5s are changed every year. 5 hour photo period makes them good that long. I have a BRS reactor that I run carbon in. How much GFO do I need in the reator? 75 gal tank.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 01:23 AM   #38
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You have algae because you have the correct environment for them to grow, light and nutrients. It takes both light and nutrients to grow algae. It is not because your lights got old and magically transported algae spores into your tank once the right spectrum was reached, algae spores are airborne and are in everyone's tanks. You have algae because you have excess nutrients that are not being exported and you have lights for your corals. These nutrients can be soluble in the water column or bound up in rock and sand. You may get the water clean but as soon as you do, your rock and substrate will begin to give up some of that po4, which is usually the main offender for nutrients, so you have to keep up the water changes, carbon, GFO and manual removal to help curb the growth. It can take many months to get enough po4 out of the rocks and substrate. In a really bad case of HA and a neglected tank, the HA grows on everything, this indicates it is in the water and the rock, when it is getting better it will be on the rock only, it can access the po4 from the rock surface, but you must keep up the manual removal and absorbtion. You can beat it, but it takes some dedication to the cause and an understanding of why it is happening.

You add nutrients every time you feed, so don't over feed. Most fish do not have to be fed daily, I usually feed mine every few days. Using creatures to eat HA isn't solving anything, they may eat it, but it isn't magically beamed into outer space, the animals will use a small amount for their dietary needs and guess where the rest of it goes?

Remove the nutrients, that is the key. It is the reason why the majority of the tanks here don't have this problem, even with old bulbs and high powered lights, we have the same algae spores in our tanks, but the available nutrients are exported before algae has a chance to get a stronghold. It is that simple in theory, but once you let the nutrients accumulate, it gets much harder, but you can beat it. :-)


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Unread 02/24/2012, 08:01 AM   #39
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Get a couple golf ball sized turbo snails, reduce your light period to 5 hours a day, run GFO, and get back to regular water changes with RO/DI.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 08:50 AM   #40
Crush Coral
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Have 2 turbo snails, 14 Astrea snails, 12 hermits, 2 skunk shrimp, 1 fire shrimp, 1 sea hare, 1 tuxedo urchin, 1 emerald crab, 1 sand sifting starfish and tons of serpant starsfish.
Have always done monthly 40% ro/di water changes.
I do make my water ahead of time and it sits in a 32 gallon "Incredible Trash Can". Wonder if this could be the sourse of my problem? I did use the trash can for a couple years w/o an algae problem.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 08:59 AM   #41
sirreal63
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I doubt it is the can.
The only methods you are employing to export it is large monthly water changes, and the chemi-pure would be exhausted in a much shorter time. It would need to be changed every week or two for a while. Start using GFO, and replace the chemi-pure more frequently.

How much and how often are you feeding? The nutrients are coming from food, that cannot be avoided, but if you do not export or bind it, algae will continue to use it as food.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 10:05 AM   #42
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I feed a 1"X3" strip of seaweed select daily along with an eigth of a teaspoon of pelets. Then every other day I feed a cube of mysis or Rods or Rods fish eggs. Most of the time I rinse the frozen food.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 10:15 AM   #43
sirreal63
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Nori is a large contributor of PO4, just so you know. It isn't so much the amount you feed, but the amount that you export, it must balance because this is a closed system, whatever you add has to be removed or consumed or bound up. I believe in feeding heavy and exporting heavy, but that is something you have to figure out how to balance. Right now yours isn't balanced, you aren't adequately removing nutrients that you add. The result is algae. GFO is your best ally right now, along with manual removal, patience and time.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 10:56 AM   #44
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Ha

One thing I did not see mentioned is along the line of the nutrients. the HA will only grow well if you feed it. yes there is the food you add to the tank but there are other things as well. Do you add lyme to your tank for corals? Some lyme products DO leach phosphates. I had an issue with the red slime and as soon as I stopped using the lyme it went away.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 12:27 PM   #45
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You might try Spiny Sea Urchins. They'll eat the HA. They may also do a number on the Coralline algae.

You mentioned two hand-sized Tangs. Don't mistake me for the Tang Police here, but those fish are nutrient bombs. I've got a 4" Hippo Tang in my 75 that I have no doubt adds more bioload than the rest of the organisms in the tank combined. I can't imagine having two of them in there. You may have trouble maintaining low nutrient levels given the limitations of your filtration system and the bioload you have.


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Unread 02/24/2012, 01:17 PM   #46
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I used to have terrible HA in my tank. Covered probably 25-40% of my rocks. I would manually scrub it (in the tank) with a toothbrush, and then blast my powerheads, and clean all my filter sponges a few hours later once it had collected there.

I also got a Phosban reactor which helped stop additional growth, but didn't really kill what was already there. After this addition, every time I scrubbed it off with my toothbrush, it would grow back slightly less.

What ended up doing the trick for me was when I bought a Scopas tang which was in my QT for almost 6 weeks as this was occurring. I didn't think anything of it when I added my Scopas to the DT....then the next day HALF of my HA was gone. By the end of the week there wasn't a single thread left in the tank!!!

I don't endorse buying a fish specifically to battle nuisance algae, but if you want the fish anyway, then by all means go for it! In the meantime, keep scrubbing with a brush, and buy a Phosban reactor to keep any additional growth in check.


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Unread 02/25/2012, 02:23 PM   #47
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The only addional fish I wish to add are an ocellaris clown to pair up with the one I have, and a dwarf angel - flame or coral beauty. My tuxedo urchin did do a number on my coraline algae but has not eliminated it, and it is fun watching him carry around camaflage on him. I enjoy the invertabrates the most.


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