Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[janey]

Slief the bearing were intact. I unscrewed it and bearing came off.. They look look like they should have some grease in them ? But as for the shaving .. That"s the QUESTION.. where did it come from , or off of ?
I was researching too for a replacement pump. Yeah I seen that one on ebay , but its different. and the wiring too.

oh you saying for in the inner parts > I see..

[slief]

Originally Posted by janey

Slief the bearing were intact. I unscrewed it and bearing came off.. They look look like they should have some grease in them ? But as for the shaving .. That"s the QUESTION.. where did it come from , or off of ?
I was researching too for a replacement pump. Yeah I seen that one on ebay , but its different. and the wiring too.

oh you saying for in the inner parts > I see..

Yea, I was thinking inner parts. Bearings in particular. That one bearing that came apart, probably should not have come apart like that. First think I would do is call Cole Pamer. Depending on what repair they offer, then I would consider my next course of action be it buying a new pump, a motor to cannibalize or finding an electric motor repair place to try to fix it.

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by janey

Slief the bearing were intact. I unscrewed it and bearing came off.. They look look like they should have some grease in them ? But as for the shaving .. That"s the QUESTION.. where did it come from , or off of ?

Nice! Well not nice but you found your problem. Keep going!

That bearing is shot and that sliver of metal is from the bearing retainer itself. There is more like it wedged in the motor.

Continue breaking it down, clean it up, have new bearings put in (probably will need to be pressed in/out). No point in stopping now and thank you for the pictures. This is helpful, i've never been into them this deep.

I'd say look for new parts if the thing didn't function properly at all but since its just getting jammed from a bad bearing I see that as a sign of promise. I look forward to seeing you fix this pump! You've pretty much already done the hard part. Save all the bearing parts and take it into a motor shop or bearing house. Bet they will put them in for you for about $25 total. Doesn't look like the roller bearing in the gear housing is in bad shape so I would likely just focus on the two in the motor. If they have the parts to replace the roller bearing more power to them but I would probably be inclined to leave it, it looks well greased.

[janey]

Hi, Mark. Ohh your welcome with the photo's . I was like i hope no one gets mad at me posting so many photos and vids.. But Heck this is how we can learn as we Go.. Right ..!

Ok I'm waiting on the Mirco hex set i ordered. so i can take this part off. see 1st pic. I'm hoping maybe i can pull off the shaft ?/


On 2nd pic see the washer got all bent too.

[tkeracer619]

Yup, pics are worth a thousand words.

I assume once you remove that collar the guts will slip out. Try not to remove the black plastic part, that is the timing sensor. If you do need to remove it carefully mark it so you can place it back in the exact position upon reassembly.

That isn't a washer I don't think, IMO it looks like a bearing shield. The other sliver of metal is what keeps the bearing balls properly spaced, and the washer looking part is what keeps the bearing balls and grease from falling out.

[janey]

Called Cole-Parmer
Unfortunate the pump is discontinued and they have no refurbished. And if they did it goes for 1,100.00... Yeah Right .. Any way Looking for a motor shop or bearing house, near me. like "tkeracer619 " says..

Anyone Know of a place that repairs these pumps ???

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by janey

Anyone Know of a place that repairs these pumps ???

Any motor or bearing shop. The parts that are broken are not proprietary. There is no need to deal with CP on this unless it is under warranty/still in production. There is no need to find a shop that repairs cole parmer motors (doubt one exists that actually specializes in this), you may not even need a shop at all if the bearings come out on their own. That was merely a suggestion if the bearings were pressed in or needed to be pressed out.

Folks keep in mind these pumps are 2 grand new and when they reach the end of their useful life the companies who use them fork over a bunch of cash. Just because they are old doesn't mean the parts are cheaper, it is the opposite. You would pay more for one little part than you did for the whole thing. It's similar to kids going out and buying a 300zx twin turbo or supra turbo for 8 grand thinking they got a deal. Until they go and try to upgrade anything and realize the upgrade costs are based on the age, how few of them exist, and the original $$$. You buy non consumable parts for these surplus, not direct. Luckily you don't need any of that Janey, you just need some bearings .

I took my old brushed drive offline the other day and replaced it with a newer drive. So after you are done with this repair I will follow up with mine . My drive is noisy, floppy, all sorts of worn out. Good candidate for a rebuild.

[slief]

Originally Posted by janey

Called Cole-Parmer
Unfortunate the pump is discontinued and they have no refurbished. And if they did it goes for 1,100.00... Yeah Right .. Any way Looking for a motor shop or bearing house, near me. like "tkeracer619 " says..

Anyone Know of a place that repairs these pumps ???

Here is one potential repair source that is somewhat close to you.
http://www.bduinc.com

[slief]

Originally Posted by janey

Called Cole-Parmer
Unfortunate the pump is discontinued and they have no refurbished. And if they did it goes for 1,100.00... Yeah Right .. Any way Looking for a motor shop or bearing house, near me. like "tkeracer619 " says..

Anyone Know of a place that repairs these pumps ???

Here are a couple places that say they repair Cole Parmer pumps.
http://www.acsindustrial.com/mfrs/co....google.com%2F


This place is where I bought my new brushes for my CP. They also say they repair the pumps.
http://www.plccenter.com/

That said, I still think a motor repair place like the one I linked to in my post above may be the most practical solution. Also, search for "Bearings" in your local area and you might find a bearing supplier in your area. There are several listen in Allentown.

[tkeracer619]

Awesome Slief! I am surprised (though I probably shouldn't be) that there are shops out there specializing in these. They probably love them compared to some of the junk they see on a daily basis .

[janey]

OOOOO Thanks Slief
I emailed 4 company's ..and sent them pics to show what im talkin about..


Thank you Guys so much...

[BrettH]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

I bought a Stenner dosing Pump Model 85M/170DM for ….wait for it …Fourteen Bucks!
This pump has a range of 1.5-514.8 Liters per Day.

congrats on a $14 stenner pump purchase, there are all sorts of things you can use that for....that's the good news...

I was going to buy that stenner pump (New) since it's about the same price as buying a used CP setup off ebay. I called stenner and asked a few questions and they directed me to an entirely different pump. They said that model/series of pumps are not meant for 24/7 continuous use. I can't remember all the specifics, since I spoke to him back in late Jan/ early Feb.

Here is what stenner recommended (~$900 and you can find for about $700):
http://stenner.com/products/pumps/svp-series

Is anyone else using the stenner pump continuously? If so, for how long?

I ended up finally buying a CP 7520-50 off ebay yesterday and a 7518-10 head! I went with this model because CP has all the wearable parts that are likely to fail- brushes and few gears, so it is easy to fix if there is a problem. Hopefully the one I bought is in good condition. I had also been holding out for a brushless, but my patience has worn out...I must say, the people at CP are incredibly helpful and answered a lot of my questions. Great company. Stenner too. Just solid, helpful people.

BTW, I also remember reading somewhere in this thread the 6-600 rpm motor is preferable because in theory it is a stronger motor (due to higher RPM capability) and we are only running these units at about 17rpm, so why not get the higher RPM, stronger motor. IIRC from my discussions with CP, the 6-600 rpm has a gearing system that can wear and the comparable 1-100 RPM units have the same motors as the as the 6-600, so no need to hold out for the higher RPM motor. The gearing system is easily replaced. Maybe I'll give CP a call to confirm to make sure I am not mistaken. If I am, I apologize. Either way, both are very solid units!

Thanks to Dennis as I originally found out about this idea from his build thread! And thanks to everyone else, particularly tkeracer619, for the effort with this thread. Good stuff. Just an awsome thread

[janey]

ARRRGGGG
Only 2 company emailed me back.
1. wants more info as too who makes the pump.and what the the size of the bearing.
I gave the info Masterflex pump model # is E-67909 S/n 16044 .
as for size , I have a Digital Caliper.. Gotta Love Harbor Freight.. LOL
Ok this what i gave them.
bearing thickness is 7.02mm , outside is 0.867 mm , inner is 11.40mm
washer width .42mm, outer 21.46mm , inner 17.26mm

[METZCOOL]

Cole Parmer 77200-12 with 7021-24 Quick load pump head?
I have a GEO reactor and a Aquarium Plants Regulator.

[slief]

Originally Posted by METZCOOL

Cole Parmer 77200-12 with 7021-24 Quick load pump head?
I have a GEO reactor and a Aquarium Plants Regulator.

It will work. You will be running the pump at a very slow RPM. You can control the RPM via the dial on the front of the pump. The RPM coupled with the tubing size will determine the ml/min. You will want to stick with the LS17 tubing as it will keep the RPM lower on the pump compared to the thinner LS16 tubing.

Depending on your tank size and Ca/Alk uptake, you will probably want to start out around 25 ml/min (8.4 RPM) -50ml/min (17.7 RPM) flow through the CaRx and 1 Co2 bubbles per 1 -2.5 seconds depending on the flow. That bubble rate should get you to 6.6 and 6.7 pH in your reactor. but you obviously need to measure that. The bubble count will depend greatly on the media you as different media breaks down at different pH levels. The calcium and alk levels in your tank will determine how much flow you need through the reactor as well as the pH level needed in the CaRx. Once you get the pH level in the reactor stable, then you will need to adjust the flow rate and Co2 bubble rate up or down based on your tanks consumption.

[naterealbig]

Hey guys, great thread! I'm planning on building a dual stage regulator setup with a quality metering valve. Would there be a significant benefit to the AP doser over a quality metering valve?

[janey]

Need help again.
Alot of places i emailed dont sell parts. Only place so far , that im getting close is
here http://www.plccenter.com/en-US/Searc...tNumber=6082rs
Just sent them pics , too see if they can fig it out. Thanks Sleif

Can someone help me fig which one i need ??
As you you can see on the pic i had posted the bearing i took out , Is it missing the inner metal part ??/ Cause looking at the site i linked they all have the metal inner part.

[Dapg8gt]

Who was the poster that said they had a bunch of ls/16 tubing?I'm using the compact pump and would like to try it out to see if I can have a wider range of flow to dial in my c02..

Long shot but if you read this and you still have an abundance of it can you shoot me a Pm I'd like to either buy some or we can trade/swap for some 17..

Thanks Daniel..

[slief]

Originally Posted by janey

Need help again.
Alot of places i emailed dont sell parts. Only place so far , that im getting close is
here http://www.plccenter.com/en-US/Searc...tNumber=6082rs
Just sent them pics , too see if they can fig it out. Thanks Sleif

Can someone help me fig which one i need ??
As you you can see on the pic i had posted the bearing i took out , Is it missing the inner metal part ??/ Cause looking at the site i linked they all have the metal inner part.

That's where bringing it to a bearing supplier would be your best bet. They could take a caliper to what's left of the bearing to determine the OD/outer race as well as the thickness of the bearing and measure the motor shaft thickness to determine the inner race. It could end up costing you $15-$20 in parts if that vs a $100+ from a CP repair house. That said, I would check on that needle bearing too. You might as well replace that too if the bearing place can match it. I think I gave you some bearing places in Allentown to check. Send them some pictures of the bearings and ask them if they think they can match them if you bring the motor in.

[zachts]

Originally Posted by Dapg8gt

Who was the poster that said they had a bunch of ls/16 tubing?I'm using the compact pump and would like to try it out to see if I can have a wider range of flow to dial in my c02..

Long shot but if you read this and you still have an abundance of it can you shoot me a Pm I'd like to either buy some or we can trade/swap for some 17..

Thanks Daniel..

PM sent

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by Dapg8gt

Who was the poster that said they had a bunch of ls/16 tubing?I'm using the compact pump and would like to try it out to see if I can have a wider range of flow to dial in my c02..

Long shot but if you read this and you still have an abundance of it can you shoot me a Pm I'd like to either buy some or we can trade/swap for some 17..

Thanks Daniel..

Dialing in your reactor should be done by changing the co2 to raise or lower ph and the ALK of the effluent.

It is not generally changing the flow as increasing flow will decreasing the ph so then you increase flow and once again decrease ph. Reverse, of course happens if you are trying to lower ph.

[Dapg8gt]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Dialing in your reactor should be done by changing the co2 to raise or lower ph and the ALK of the effluent.

It is not generally changing the flow as increasing flow will decreasing the ph so then you increase flow and once again decrease ph. Reverse, of course happens if you are trying to lower ph.

I don't have a 1-600 rpm pump I have the 30-200 rpm one so with the l/s 17 tubing at the lowest setting ( actually lower than 30rpm in reality with the small motor and thicker tubing) and a higher flow rate I need more c02 to keep it in the sweet spot in turn lowering the Dt pH etc..

Overall I just want more flexibility and with the Cp compact I'm already running the PharMed tubing against the manufacturer recommendation in that size but thanks your advice is totally accurate =)..

[naterealbig]

Originally Posted by naterealbig

Hey guys, great thread! I'm planning on building a dual stage regulator setup with a quality metering valve. Would there be a significant benefit to the AP doser over a quality metering valve?

[tkeracer619]

Sorry buddy didn't see that, thanks for the kind words .

I don't doubt there are great solenoid valves that can make this setup work as intended. Simply adding one of these pumps to any setup makes it much more consistent. That was the original goal I had when setting it up years ago. However it turned out that taking the ph probe control out of the loop and delivering a metered amount of gas and a metered amount of effluent created a consistent output over the life of the media, regardless of media amount in the chamber. This happens because as the media dissolves the ph in the chamber goes down, this causes the media to dissolve quicker which balances out the fact that there is less media. In a typical system it won't work this way because the probe keeps the ph consistent. As media dissolves less gas will be supplied. It becomes more apparent the higher the demand.

The AP setup is great, it is a single stage reg body though. For some people that is a big deal, however it only takes a couple adjustments over the course of the bottle to keep it at a consistant gas pressure as well as a bit of playing when you first bring a new bottle online. Going with a high quality dual stage reg will keep that pressure no matter what. The best you could ask for the a dual stage reg with the ap add on box. A 2 stage reg with a high quality needle valve that can be tuned and stay consistent should work as advertised though as long as the solenoid valve can stay open 100% of the time and the needle valve can remain consistent. You could probably also program a controller to operate the solenoid valve like the ap box but unless it's a high quality continuous duty solenoid I would fear it getting stuck.

[slief]

I figured I would do an update here on my Cole Pamer Ca reactor setup. It's been about a month since I got it setup and I am absolutely amazed at the stability. It took me a few weeks to get my tank settled down. Before setting up the reactor with the CP pump, I dosed my tank to increase my Ca and Alk levels as they were low. I overshot things a bit and had to let it settle down. It took a week or so to settle down. Then I brought the reactor online and found that at 50ml/min and 6.6ph my Alk was again on the high side at about 10dkh and my Ca was high too at around 490. At that point, I shut my Co2 off for a week and allowed time and my automatic water changes to bring things back down. At that point, I slowed the flow through the reactor from 50ml/min to 42ml/min and increased the pH from 6.6 to 6.72ish which seems to be the sweet spot. After a week of running at that rate, my Alk is at 9.0dkh, my Ca at 450 and Mg at 1320 which are all about where I wanted them.

For those that are wondering why we use these Cole Parmer pumps on our calcium reactors, the comination of a good regulator coupled with the Cole Parmer pump makes setting up and maintaining a consistantly stable Ca reactor a dream. I've run Ca Reactors before use used a traditional feed pump and a needle valve which was a nightmare. The effluent lines would clog regularly and the pH would be all over the map and as a result, the controller was constantly intervening. With the Cole Parmer and a decent regulator (I use the AquariumPlants regulator), my Apex hasn't had to shut the solenoid off once. The pH in the reactor is a close to flatline as it could possibly be. The graph below covers 2 days and as you can see, the pH in the reactor only drifted by .02 pH. That is insanely stable and it shows what consistant flow coupled with consistant Co2 rate can do for a reactors stability. You cannot achieve that kind of pH stability in a CaRx without the intervention of a controller unless you use one of these pumps.

As it sits now, I am at about 42ml/min (15 rpm) flow and about 1 bubble every 3 seconds to maintain a 6.72'ish pH in my Geo 818 CaRx.

Here is the reactors pH graph.. I can't imagine pH being any more stable than that and it's due primarily to the use of my Cole Parmer pump that manages the flow through the reactor perfectly.