What the H happened?

hkgar · 10/19/2017, 02:27 PM

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ncZeZb7p1oQqUbsU2

I am guessing water splashed on it.

Before you start with the GFI, the outlet is on a GFI protected circuit.

The plug is from my EB8 (Apex) and controls 3 250 W MH, 2 T5 ballasts each of which control 2 80 W t5 bulbs and a cooling fan.

I am thinking I can buy a new plug and splice it to the Apex EB8.

homer1475 · 10/19/2017, 02:35 PM

Funny you post this.

Had a plug burn up in an EB8 last night. Luckily I smelled it before it actually caught fire.

Replaced the plug, put plug on relayed outlet, all is good now.

HippieSmell · 10/19/2017, 03:53 PM

This is why I went with Profilux. Glad your houses are still standing.

Lsufan · 10/19/2017, 04:14 PM

I would plug the apex straight into the outlet. If I had to guess it was the wall plug in splitter that caused it & not the apex. I wouldn’t run much off of a splitter like that, especially your apex with all of your tank equipment. I don’t use those splitters unless it’s for small things like phone chargers or lamps or something small. They just aren’t made for high loads.

Instead of a gfci breaker, I would consider using a gfci outlet & a afci breaker at the panel. That way u have both ground fault & arc fault protection. It’s no guarantee but I bet one of them would have tripped in that situation, probably the afci breaker.

I misread your post, I thought u posted it is on a gfci breaker. U actually said it was a gfci protected circuit though.

slief · 10/19/2017, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

This is why I went with Profilux. Glad your houses are still standing.

This isn’t an Apex issue. This is something at the outlet whether it was water or a problem with the wall mounted splitter or something else that caused the plug to melt. The same would likely have happened with any power bar under the circumstances. If this was specific to the powerbar or more particularly, the EB8, it would have cooked inside the EB8 and friend the wiring there or burnt the traces since the Energy Bars utilize a printed circuit board for the entire power bar with each outlet soldered onto the PCB.

mcgyvr · 10/19/2017, 04:52 PM

It happens.. Likely corrosion over time combined with the decent load on it and it started to arc/overheat..

Pop that biatch open and lets see a closeup of the contacts,etc...

2000se · 10/19/2017, 05:36 PM

Dude that's almost 7.5 amps..That's a lot of power. I don't think that rinky dinky outlet splitter is made for constant high amperage duty. My 2 cents.

coralfish · 10/19/2017, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkgar

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ncZeZb7p1oQqUbsU2

I am guessing water splashed on it.

Before you start with the GFI, the outlet is on a GFI protected circuit.

The plug is from my EB8 (Apex) and controls 3 250 W MH, 2 T5 ballasts each of which control 2 80 W t5 bulbs and a cooling fan.

I am thinking I can buy a new plug and splice it to the Apex EB8.

You had all this plugged into one EB8 outlet? That’s way too much for one outlet!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mark Bianco · 10/19/2017, 08:47 PM

If you add up the total wattage of what the OP stated he had plugged into the EB8 it equals 910 watts 910 without the fan an unknown say we add 90 watts (More then likely 10 watts if its a small muffin fan) it equals 1000 watts. 1000 watts at 120 volts is only 8.3 watts the EB8 will handle up to 15 amps before tripping out its circuit breaker Granted when starting up the metal halide bulbs the inrush current will climb but not to the extent that would cause the failure pictured. I agree with most probably caused by corrosion or a faulty outlet splitter

2000se · 10/20/2017, 05:39 AM

I agree the EB8 would probably be fine handling the current, but not that little splitter. It cost 0.97¢ to make probably. Just not rated for that high duty. .. And yes your math is correct in I forgot he had 2 T5 connections..good catch

mcgyvr · 10/20/2017, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000se

but not that little splitter. It cost 0.97¢ to make probably. Just not rated for that high duty. ..

Its highly unlikely that it carried anything less than a 15 Amp rating..

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsufan

I would plug the apex straight into the outlet. If I had to guess it was the wall plug in splitter that caused it & not the apex. I wouldn’t run much off of a splitter like that, especially your apex with all of your tank equipment. I don’t use those splitters unless it’s for small things like phone chargers or lamps or something small. They just aren’t made for high loads.

Instead of a gfci breaker, I would consider using a gfci outlet & a afci breaker at the panel. That way u have both ground fault & arc fault protection. It’s no guarantee but I bet one of them would have tripped in that situation, probably the afci breaker.

I misread your post, I thought u posted it is on a gfci breaker. U actually said it was a gfci protected circuit though.

There is a GFI outlet breaker on the circuit but no at the outlet where the plug was. But it is between the panel and the outlet.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 07:06 AM

Thanks everyone for the help. I think the problem was most likely the splitter, and what is truly ridiculous is that I only had two devices plug into the splitter, the EB8 and my Gyre. I really didn't need it - the splitter,

Why does spell check think that there is no word splitter?

I have a Kill-A-Watt and do from time to time check the amps on outlets.

FoothillCorals · 10/20/2017, 07:18 AM

Too many amps though that cheap splitter. That is a fire waiting to happen.

I learned this a long time ago. I had a 9 amp load on a cheap extension cord rated for 13 amps and it melted and cot fire just like that.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

This is why I went with Profilux. Glad your houses are still standing.

I only have one house.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

It happens.. Likely corrosion over time combined with the decent load on it and it started to arc/overheat..

Pop that biatch open and lets see a closeup of the contacts,etc...

Here are the contacts

mcgyvr · 10/20/2017, 12:21 PM

Tip:
Never place electrical outlets near anywhere that can get wet (salt creep,etc.. included) nor in higher humidity areas..
Every stand I've ever built always has the electrical section closed off from the sump area..
Over time corrosion happens due to moisture.. Most outlets are brass contacts and they corrode over time.. Not nearly what a steel part would (rust) but they still corrode over time.. Corrosion causes increased resistance.. Increased resistance causes arcing/overheating..arcing causes carbon build up... blah blah.. blah.. yeah.. fire Beavis..fire in my bunghole..

Exactly what happened there

I never reuse power strips on tanks either.. and after a few years I will inspect and replace as needed..

homer1475 · 10/20/2017, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkgar

I only have one house.

I think he meant my house as well.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 12:43 PM

Ouch. I put a new plug on the end of the EB8 cord, plugged it in an after 1/2 hour it was warm and I pulled it. The prongs were untouchable. Very hot. Hot enough to burn my skin a bit. Checked with the Kill a Watt and the draw was about 12 amps. The circuit is a 20 amp circuit.

Any idea what guage wire the EB8 plug would be? I think the plug I attached may be 14 and the EB8 might be 12. Would that cause a problem?

Turning off the MH light and will see what happens.

homer1475 · 10/20/2017, 12:52 PM

I would go to the hardware store and just buy a heavy duty plug end. Something like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-15-...e-Plug/3739251

That way your using the existing wiring.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

I would go to the hardware store and just buy a heavy duty plug end. Something like this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-15-...e-Plug/3739251

That way your using the existing wiring.

Would 20 amp be better?

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer1475

I think he meant my house as well.

Yup, I think you are right. My apologies. I am just too self involved

homer1475 · 10/20/2017, 01:23 PM

If you can find one, yes.

I only ever see 15amp in normal 3 prong plugs. 20amp and higher usually have a weird blade setup.

hkgar · 10/20/2017, 01:35 PM

Could the outlet be corroded? It is directly behind the aquarium and did not have a cover plate on it.

mcgyvr · 10/20/2017, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkgar

Could the outlet be corroded? It is directly behind the aquarium and did not have a cover plate on it.

yes its entirely possible..

I'll admit I'm not sure what an acceptable temp rise is at the blade/receptacle contacts and I'm a bit too busy to check...I do lots of electrical/thermal testing but not on residential devices... However if its burning to your skin I know its too hot as safety requirements wouldn't allow that without a burn warning/symbol..

A simple test would be to plug in a hair dryer to another outlet and let it run for 10 minutes then check its terminal temps (soon after being unplugged )..

You can try that in another outlet.. Then this outlet and compare.. If the blades are too hot in this outlet then that outlet is faulty/corroded or the wires are loose on the outlet itself.

10/19/2017, 02:27 PM	#1
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	What the H happened? https://photos.app.goo.gl/ncZeZb7p1oQqUbsU2 I am guessing water splashed on it. Before you start with the GFI, the outlet is on a GFI protected circuit. The plug is from my EB8 (Apex) and controls 3 250 W MH, 2 T5 ballasts each of which control 2 80 W t5 bulbs and a cooling fan. I am thinking I can buy a new plug and splice it to the Apex EB8. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels Last edited by hkgar; 10/19/2017 at 02:34 PM.

10/19/2017, 02:35 PM	#2
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Funny you post this. Had a plug burn up in an EB8 last night. Luckily I smelled it before it actually caught fire. Replaced the plug, put plug on relayed outlet, all is good now. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

10/19/2017, 03:53 PM	#3
HippieSmell Occupy Reef Central Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Orbiting Posts: 4,141	This is why I went with Profilux. Glad your houses are still standing. __________________ Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas. Current Tank Info: 78"x36"x27" acrylic, 6 Orphek Atlantik V3+ Compacts, MRC Orca Pro II w/washdown, CalcFeeder Pro AC3, Emperor Aquatics 80w UV, 80/20 aluminum stand, Vortech MP60's, Theiling Rollermat, GHL Profilux 3.1T EX, Kessil H380

10/19/2017, 04:14 PM	#4
Lsufan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 1,410	I would plug the apex straight into the outlet. If I had to guess it was the wall plug in splitter that caused it & not the apex. I wouldn’t run much off of a splitter like that, especially your apex with all of your tank equipment. I don’t use those splitters unless it’s for small things like phone chargers or lamps or something small. They just aren’t made for high loads. Instead of a gfci breaker, I would consider using a gfci outlet & a afci breaker at the panel. That way u have both ground fault & arc fault protection. It’s no guarantee but I bet one of them would have tripped in that situation, probably the afci breaker. I misread your post, I thought u posted it is on a gfci breaker. U actually said it was a gfci protected circuit though. Last edited by Lsufan; 10/19/2017 at 05:58 PM.

10/19/2017, 04:52 PM	#6
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	It happens.. Likely corrosion over time combined with the decent load on it and it started to arc/overheat.. Pop that biatch open and lets see a closeup of the contacts,etc... __________________ Who me?

10/19/2017, 05:36 PM	#7
2000se Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: charlotte Posts: 532	Dude that's almost 7.5 amps..That's a lot of power. I don't think that rinky dinky outlet splitter is made for constant high amperage duty. My 2 cents.

10/19/2017, 08:47 PM	#9
Mark Bianco In Memoriam Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Infinity and Beyond Posts: 2,445	If you add up the total wattage of what the OP stated he had plugged into the EB8 it equals 910 watts 910 without the fan an unknown say we add 90 watts (More then likely 10 watts if its a small muffin fan) it equals 1000 watts. 1000 watts at 120 volts is only 8.3 watts the EB8 will handle up to 15 amps before tripping out its circuit breaker Granted when starting up the metal halide bulbs the inrush current will climb but not to the extent that would cause the failure pictured. I agree with most probably caused by corrosion or a faulty outlet splitter

10/20/2017, 05:39 AM	#10
2000se Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: charlotte Posts: 532	I agree the EB8 would probably be fine handling the current, but not that little splitter. It cost 0.97¢ to make probably. Just not rated for that high duty. .. And yes your math is correct in I forgot he had 2 T5 connections..good catch

10/20/2017, 07:06 AM	#13
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Thanks everyone for the help. I think the problem was most likely the splitter, and what is truly ridiculous is that I only had two devices plug into the splitter, the EB8 and my Gyre. I really didn't need it - the splitter, Why does spell check think that there is no word splitter? I have a Kill-A-Watt and do from time to time check the amps on outlets. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

10/20/2017, 07:18 AM	#14
FoothillCorals Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 522	Too many amps though that cheap splitter. That is a fire waiting to happen. I learned this a long time ago. I had a 9 amp load on a cheap extension cord rated for 13 amps and it melted and cot fire just like that. Last edited by FoothillCorals; 10/20/2017 at 07:25 AM.

10/20/2017, 12:21 PM	#17
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Tip: Never place electrical outlets near anywhere that can get wet (salt creep,etc.. included) nor in higher humidity areas.. Every stand I've ever built always has the electrical section closed off from the sump area.. Over time corrosion happens due to moisture.. Most outlets are brass contacts and they corrode over time.. Not nearly what a steel part would (rust) but they still corrode over time.. Corrosion causes increased resistance.. Increased resistance causes arcing/overheating..arcing causes carbon build up... blah blah.. blah.. yeah.. fire Beavis..fire in my bunghole.. Exactly what happened there I never reuse power strips on tanks either.. and after a few years I will inspect and replace as needed.. __________________ Who me?

10/20/2017, 12:43 PM	#19
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Ouch. I put a new plug on the end of the EB8 cord, plugged it in an after 1/2 hour it was warm and I pulled it. The prongs were untouchable. Very hot. Hot enough to burn my skin a bit. Checked with the Kill a Watt and the draw was about 12 amps. The circuit is a 20 amp circuit. Any idea what guage wire the EB8 plug would be? I think the plug I attached may be 14 and the EB8 might be 12. Would that cause a problem? Turning off the MH light and will see what happens. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

10/20/2017, 12:52 PM	#20
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	I would go to the hardware store and just buy a heavy duty plug end. Something like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-15-...e-Plug/3739251 That way your using the existing wiring. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

10/20/2017, 01:23 PM	#23
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	If you can find one, yes. I only ever see 15amp in normal 3 prong plugs. 20amp and higher usually have a weird blade setup. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

10/20/2017, 01:35 PM	#24
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Could the outlet be corroded? It is directly behind the aquarium and did not have a cover plate on it. __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels