Kessil A350

[lgull1]

Alex T,

I don't have a sps dominated tank but i do have some sps near the sand bed probably 5 inches off the sand bed. More of the monipora that covers the rocks. Porite variety. I could not tell you if you could actually grow them on the sand bed though. I had VHO lighting and MH before. I would say your Radiums are going to have more punch than the Kessil. That being said, i do have the wide angle variety that spreads more than punches down. I would think you would need 3 of them to cover your tank but i can't speak for the A350 that doesn't go wide. I have two A350W lights covering my 48" tank perfect. I can't complain. I have them going 100 percent though. I never thought i would like that blue but it brings the colors out nice and my corals are loving the new LED's. I have had some for over 10 years and they adjusted great. The temp drop is incredible though. Nice cool water here for my Florida tank and the corals love it.The only thing i will say about them is the converter gives off some heat. I thought they would be warm but they are quite hot. You put that underneath your tank anyway so it shouldn't be a problem. I would go with 3 A350W but you would have to be the judge of that one. Hope this helps. Oh, my lights are 9.5 inches off the water also. My rock structure? I would have to say i have an sps about the size of a softball or better and its about 8 to 10 inches below the water. I'm guessing though. The higher you go with them, the more they angle out for better coverage. For the size of the lights, they are bright. I am impressed.

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

lgull1,

How high is your rock structure? Is your tank SPS dominated? The reason I ask is that I started this thread so that I could gather information as to whether we could keep SPS anywhere in the tank like I can with my 400 watt Radiums. I have a very low rock structure...13 inches at its' highest point in a 24" deep tank and like to grow SPS inches off the sandbed. I also am planning an assortment of Maxima clams on the sand bed and wanted to know if the a350's would be up to the task.

I know it sounds like most people have been very happy with their Kessil A350s, but when mine arrived I was utterly disappointed by the lack of brightness. I got the wide version to light a 36 x 36 x 6 inch deep frag tank. Based on what others were saying I thought with such shallow depth this would offer excellent coverage and good par. That really hasn't been the case.

First of all, let me preface this by saying my tanks are almost all SPS and like you I am used to using lighting bright enough to easily grow them anywhere in the tank.

With that said, I was really underwhelmed by the light output of the A350w. The spread is ridiculously wide - too wide in my opinion. I have it mounted 9 inches off the water and it spans the full 36 inches, but the par on the sides is useless. At the water surface directly under the light at 9 inches par is 415. At the bottom of the frag tank 6 inches under water the par is barely above 100. The penetration is quite poor. If you move laterally just 9 inches in any direction the par drops to less than 50 6 inches under the water. Even for this super shallow frag tank I would need at least 2 but probably 3 of the A350W to get adequate par to grow SPS well across the full 36 inches.

The shimmer effect is the nicest looking I have ever seen, but the light is just too dim. I honestly am very surprised to see people stating they are running 2 of these over a 4 foot aquarium and are happy with the brightness. There is simply no way that would be enough par to grow SPS well throughout a standard sized tank. The regular version is going to get better penetration, but in the end you still have the same amount of light output so you would still need multiple units to get adequate output.

Based on the spread and par I am getting on my frag tank I believe you would need roughly 6 of the regular 350s to approach the brightness of 2x 400 watt radiums for a 48x24x24 tank. As I said, I really like brightly lit tanks and in my opinion to grow SPS well on the sand and acheive the brightness level I am used to I think it would take 8 of them over a 120 for me to be happy.

Hope this helps answer your question.

[lgull1]

Aimforever , You might be right seeing that you are used to really bright tanks, but i am strictly speaking from My opinion. My corals are really looking good under the light and yes you can say the light is not AS bright as you would typically see. I had VHO's and MH's and i expected to see a drop in what the light put out. For their size. they put out a lot of light. I am eventually going to put mine inside a finished wood top that i am constructing and i might be able to capture more light, but i will respectfully disagree you would need 6 of them on a 48" tank. I would burn my corals up, and i have had some for ten years. I DO NOT GROW sps on the sand bed, but i have not had a problem growing my sps. Maybe i will comment more in the months ahead if this thread stills exist. Everyone has their opinion of what is great and what is crap. I bought them because they were in my price range. I would love to buy other leds, but unfortunately they are not in my budget. I might in the future get a third light, but if my corals are happy, then i might not. If i have to, hopefully they will be a tad bit cheaper since that would put me into the Radion's i wanted or the Orpheks. There are others out there coming out on the market that are going to be in the 450.00 range.

I disagree with the spread also. You might get the light to reach that far but it fades as it gets farther away from the light.What is your definition of "well"? I have my sps under it and we will see how big they get after i changed it over. I never had sps under the lighting you have, maybe you are used to really fast growth, but mine have grew pretty well so far. I don't agree with 6 though.

If anyone has questions on kessil LED's, i have had good success going on their website and directly contacting them.

[Alex T.]

Originally Posted by Aimforever

I know it sounds like most people have been very happy with their Kessil A350s, but when mine arrived I was utterly disappointed by the lack of brightness. I got the wide version to light a 36 x 36 x 6 inch deep frag tank. Based on what others were saying I thought with such shallow depth this would offer excellent coverage and good par. That really hasn't been the case.

First of all, let me preface this by saying my tanks are almost all SPS and like you I am used to using lighting bright enough to easily grow them anywhere in the tank.

With that said, I was really underwhelmed by the light output of the A350w. The spread is ridiculously wide - too wide in my opinion. I have it mounted 9 inches off the water and it spans the full 36 inches, but the par on the sides is useless. At the water surface directly under the light at 9 inches par is 415. At the bottom of the frag tank 6 inches under water the par is barely above 100. The penetration is quite poor. If you move laterally just 9 inches in any direction the par drops to less than 50 6 inches under the water. Even for this super shallow frag tank I would need at least 2 but probably 3 of the A350W to get adequate par to grow SPS well across the full 36 inches.

The shimmer effect is the nicest looking I have ever seen, but the light is just too dim. I honestly am very surprised to see people stating they are running 2 of these over a 4 foot aquarium and are happy with the brightness. There is simply no way that would be enough par to grow SPS well throughout a standard sized tank. The regular version is going to get better penetration, but in the end you still have the same amount of light output so you would still need multiple units to get adequate output.

Based on the spread and par I am getting on my frag tank I believe you would need roughly 6 of the regular 350s to approach the brightness of 2x 400 watt radiums for a 48x24x24 tank. As I said, I really like brightly lit tanks and in my opinion to grow SPS well on the sand and acheive the brightness level I am used to I think it would take 8 of them over a 120 for me to be happy.

Hope this helps answer your question.

It does. Thank you. It's why I started the thread. Sticking with 400 watt Radiums for now, and currently have 3 Kessil a150w Ocean Blues for actinic affect only (dawn/dusk). It makes a great shimmering actinic light...I'll give them that much.

[lgull1]

I guess soon my whole tank will be dead then. I just wrote Kessil. I am waiting for their response on this. Hope you don't mind Aimforever, i used your readings that you got from PAR to ask Kessil about this. let you know what they say.

[franklypre]

From what I understand SPS grow in 100 par with LEDs, granted these are not 400w LED equivelent. They are stated to be close to a 300w Radium, which is about what a 250w Radium likes to run at, seem to me it's 283w or so. How do the coral in the 36X36 frag tank react? I understand you are used to extremely bright lighting I'm much the same way but LEDs have a different look all together. I'm sticking with my halides for the time being that's for sure.

[lgull1]

franklypre, you are absolutely correct. My light intensity is no where near i had it with my other lights but as you stated, LED's have a "different" look, but i will say these mimic halides as close as you are going to get. they shimmer exactly the same way.

[Aquatron]

Hello,

I believe the reason so many hobbest sold their 150s was because of tank not looking as bright as T5s, MHs, and so on. I sold my unused Apollo lights for that reason since all my builds have used MHs in the past and the 120 watt Apollos really didn't look very bright.
With that said i plan on using (2) 350s along with some Cree and Bridgelux mix in a custom built 30" x 15 fixture BUT i will still have (1) 250 watt MH 14k on each side since my tank is 8' long.
I have been keeping reef tanks for twenty plus years and when it come to lighting we are always trying to streach a fixture to cover more tank space than it is able to do. I have no problem buying from Kessel since they have been making things grow for many years but will i believe everything they clam the light will do.....NO my years in this hobby tells me different.
I am by far no LED expert and didn't even know about LEDs for aquariums untill 1 1/2 years ago but through research, viewing tanks and forums i know alittle more now and think the 350s will be proven a good light and will do well in our hobby.

Our corals will tell us if they are crap or gold

Best of Luck!

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by lgull1

I guess soon my whole tank will be dead then. I just wrote Kessil. I am waiting for their response on this. Hope you don't mind Aimforever, i used your readings that you got from PAR to ask Kessil about this. let you know what they say.

I apologize, I didn't mean to insult or sound as if your tank was doomed. I'm sure we just have very different tanks and it sounds like for you 2 fixtures is working well. I was just trying to help Alex make a decision about what would be needed to reproduce a similar look with A350s that he currently is getting with 400w radiums. Based on my prior experience with different lighting and LED fixtures and the par I am getting with the 350 IMO you would need 6 of them to replace 2 400 watt radiums, but probably more like 8 to get the full perceived brightness. For people who aren't going for that "grow sps anywhere" high intensity lighting they could certainly get by with less. The 350s aren't bad lights by any means. They are built well and I love how compact and quiet they are. I think a large tank with a sufficient number of them would look amazing. I just think their brightness has been overstated a bit.

Originally Posted by Alex T.

It does. Thank you. It's why I started the thread. Sticking with 400 watt Radiums for now, and currently have 3 Kessil a150w Ocean Blues for actinic affect only (dawn/dusk). It makes a great shimmering actinic light...I'll give them that much.

Agreed, the shimmer is stunning!

Originally Posted by franklypre

From what I understand SPS grow in 100 par with LEDs, granted these are not 400w LED equivelent. They are stated to be close to a 300w Radium, which is about what a 250w Radium likes to run at, seem to me it's 283w or so. How do the coral in the 36X36 frag tank react? I understand you are used to extremely bright lighting I'm much the same way but LEDs have a different look all together. I'm sticking with my halides for the time being that's for sure.

That is interesting. I never gave the frags a chance with just the 350 since the par was so low and the tank just looked dark to me. I added 2 Sol Blues as well, and with all 3 am happy with the light output and the corals have been doing great.

I've always heard people discussing how the perceived brightness with LEDs is lower, which I certainly agree with, but on all my tanks I wasn't happy with the look until I added enough LEDs to increase the brightness to the level I was used to. I never waited to see how the corals would respond to the "dimmer" environment simply because I didn't like the way it looked. Maybe they would have grown fine, not sure.

Originally Posted by Aquatron

Hello,

I believe the reason so many hobbest sold their 150s was because of tank not looking as bright as T5s, MHs, and so on. I sold my unused Apollo lights for that reason since all my builds have used MHs in the past and the 120 watt Apollos really didn't look very bright.
With that said i plan on using (2) 350s along with some Cree and Bridgelux mix in a custom built 30" x 15 fixture BUT i will still have (1) 250 watt MH 14k on each side since my tank is 8' long.
I have been keeping reef tanks for twenty plus years and when it come to lighting we are always trying to streach a fixture to cover more tank space than it is able to do. I have no problem buying from Kessel since they have been making things grow for many years but will i believe everything they clam the light will do.....NO my years in this hobby tells me different.
I am by far no LED expert and didn't even know about LEDs for aquariums untill 1 1/2 years ago but through research, viewing tanks and forums i know alittle more now and think the 350s will be proven a good light and will do well in our hobby.

Our corals will tell us if they are crap or gold

Best of Luck!

I definitely think the 350s are great lights and I'm sure will be awesome for growing corals, I just think people will need to use multiple units together to get the look and results they are used to.

[Alex T.]

Well said Aimforever. I'm not knocking them for being able to keep SPS. If I didn't want such a low rock structure I might have made the switch. I could never justify six $400 pendants over my tank to achieve the same intensity. It would take 6 years of Radium bulb replacement and electricity usage for me to break even on that, and I already know the Radiums work well. Very well in fact.

Who knows what they'll have in six years. Dr. Evil says "laser beams".

[yongpanda]

Aimforever, may I ask if you have the regular version or the wide lens version? Also what size of a tank is it?

I was looking for a light to hang over an elos midi and am worried that it may not be bright enough. Would you say that a kessil a350 or a350w will lack brightness just the same on a large tank and a small tank?

[chad p]

He has the wide version and the tank dimensions are in his post.

[yongpanda]

^Thanks.

Any opinions on light spill? comparable to T5s?

[Frick]

Originally Posted by franklypre

From what I understand SPS grow in 100 par with LEDs, granted these are not 400w LED equivelent.

Which LEDs? There are too many you can't compare an apple to applesauce and to green apple jolly ranchers. This is where PAR is irrelevant. A PAR of 100 under a Kessil might be perfect for some SPS but take a China box Special LED and you could cook it with a PAR of 100.

[franklypre]

You are correct Frick, then again nutrients can make a big difference in how much light you need as well. Time will tell and I'm sure Kessil is already planning another model, at least I certainly hope so.

[lgull1]

hello, everyone. No problems on anything here. All good comments. I hope the Kessil group does not mind me posting this response in me asking about some questions since Aimforever got those numbers.

Aimforever, hope you don't mind me giving those numbers to Kessil. here is his response.

Your feedback is appreciated and I have listed a few things below to help you feel better about bringing Kessil to your home. Also, keep in mind we did extensive testing over 12-18months before the launch of our A350 to make sure it will perform as a sole source of light for any tank.



First I would like to say those PAR numbers do not sound realistic, not to say that’s not what someone's meter read, but there have been others who have much higher readings not to mention feedback from our A150 with higher readings. In some cases there are just too many variables to get consistant readings (different meters, tanks, water conditions, etc..). Below are some links to PAR for the A350 and other info-

http://www.neptuneaquatics.com/suppl...olor-tune-able

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx_dI...eature=related Shows 200+/- at bottom of tank (This is off center as stated in the comments)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...t=lowry&page=9 Post 214 from Frick



Second is a quote from reef central that is very good advice- " PAR is just to give us an idea as to how powerful a light source is, it's not a definative answer as to whether it will grow coral or not"



And third, I recently just returned from a trip to Michigan and had the chance to visit one of the service companies there. He took me to a customer's house to show me how good the tank was doing after a few months of using our lights. His tank is the same size as yours and is mostly SPS, but does have LPS & soft coral along with some Clams at the bottom (photo attached). The customer commented on how much growth and color he has been getting from all his coral and how he couldn’t be happier with these results. Customers contact us all the time to give us this kind of feedback. Keep in mind he is only using 4 A150W Sky blue which would be like 2 A350W on about 80% power.



While nobody can guarantee a success in a reef tank, we have done all we can to make sure we provide everyone with a viable metal halide replacement.

That reassured me.

[lgull1]

hello, everyone. No problems on anything here. All good comments. I hope the Kessil group does not mind me posting this response in me asking about some questions since Aimforever got those numbers.

Aimforever, hope you don't mind me giving those numbers to Kessil. here is his response.

Your feedback is appreciated and I have listed a few things below to help you feel better about bringing Kessil to your home. Also, keep in mind we did extensive testing over 12-18months before the launch of our A350 to make sure it will perform as a sole source of light for any tank.



First I would like to say those PAR numbers do not sound realistic, not to say that’s not what someone's meter read, but there have been others who have much higher readings not to mention feedback from our A150 with higher readings. In some cases there are just too many variables to get consistant readings (different meters, tanks, water conditions, etc..). Below are some links to PAR for the A350 and other info-

http://www.neptuneaquatics.com/suppl...olor-tune-able

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx_dI...eature=related Shows 200+/- at bottom of tank (This is off center as stated in the comments)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...t=lowry&page=9 Post 214 from Frick



Second is a quote from reef central that is very good advice- " PAR is just to give us an idea as to how powerful a light source is, it's not a definative answer as to whether it will grow coral or not"



And third, I recently just returned from a trip to Michigan and had the chance to visit one of the service companies there. He took me to a customer's house to show me how good the tank was doing after a few months of using our lights. His tank is the same size as yours and is mostly SPS, but does have LPS & soft coral along with some Clams at the bottom (photo attached). The customer commented on how much growth and color he has been getting from all his coral and how he couldn’t be happier with these results. Customers contact us all the time to give us this kind of feedback. Keep in mind he is only using 4 A150W Sky blue which would be like 2 A350W on about 80% power.



While nobody can guarantee a success in a reef tank, we have done all we can to make sure we provide everyone with a viable metal halide replacement.

As you can see, I don't believe everything that a manufacturer says, but if they are going to charge 400.00 a light, they better back it up with something. I was kind of surprised by the numbers that's all,but i have never personally took par reading from my bulbs in 10 years so who knows what they were. Whatever light someone likes is all that matters. Of course, we all would like to keep corals as well. Alex T, i was kinda of surprised that it would take 6 years to pay off the lights but i guess you would of had to get quite a lot. Mine will be paid off in 2.5 years minus the electric and i have the peace of mind of not having to change my bulbs period. That i like. Good comments all.

[lgull1]

sorry for the double post. Hey Frick, they quoted you here in the e-mail. hey, small world.

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by yongpanda

^Thanks.

Any opinions on light spill? comparable to T5s?

No problems with light spill. Even the wide version has very crisp beam of light, beyond which the light abrubtly stops. I would imagine the regular version would be even better since it has the extra reflector to focus the light better.

I think these would look amazing over an Elos tank. They are super compact and sleek and like I said even with the wide version the shimmer is just incredible. As I discussed above though, you may need a couple of them depending on the size of your tank to get a good result.

Originally Posted by lgull1

Aimforever, hope you don't mind me giving those numbers to Kessil. here is his response.

...

First I would like to say those PAR numbers do not sound realistic, not to say that’s not what someone's meter read, but there have been others who have much higher readings not to mention feedback from our A150 with higher readings. In some cases there are just too many variables to get consistant readings (different meters, tanks, water conditions, etc..). Below are some links to PAR for the A350 and other info-

Thanks for posting the follow up. One thing is for sure, Kessil has really great customer service to write replies like that. I'm impressed. I just wanted to point out that the links he provided give par readings for the regular a350, which I would expect to have higher par readings than the a350w I was measuring. I'm using the standard Apogee par meter lots of people commonly use and have always gotten close to expected readings with other fixtures, so I'm fairly confident the readings I got are somewhat reliable.

I do agree that par readings aren't everything and there are countless other variables involved in growing sps. For me, the main factor that made me a little disappointed with the 350w was that when I put it solo over the tank everything just looked dark to my eye. Like I keep saying, the shimmer was incredible, but the overall brightness was lacking.

I'm really not trying to single out Kessil here either. The same holds true with other LED fixtures I have used. My 120G display is pretty packed with SPS and up until recently I was using 2x 250 HQI MH plus 4 T5s with great results but I wanted to switch to LED to save electricity and stop replacing expensive bulbs. Ecotech said their Radion should cover 24x24x24, so per their recommendation I got 2 for my 48x24x24 120 gallon display. It was not close to being bright enough and I was pretty disappointed initially. I wasn't happy until I added a total of 4 Radions + 2x Reefbrite XHO actinic LED strips. Since adding the extra LEDs the SPS are thriving and even the ones low in the tank are growing well and most important of all, it just looks right.

I have no regrets getting the a350w & I really do like it. I just think I set my expectations unfairly high in thinking that a single a350w could cover my 36x36x6 frag tank, and should have got at least 2 right off the bat.

[jbannick18]

Do you think a regular a350 would have the brightness you are talking about on a 34 gallon solana? I've noticed the darkness with every led I've seen and have been wary about making the switch from t5.

[Dazed1]

I've had my 350W over my 3' tank for about 1.5 weeks. And i kind of agree. Something feels a little dull. Specially the corners.
Luckily I do not have too many SPS or high light corals yet, since I recently started this tank. I'm thinking I'll probably have to go with 2 x radion's 6 months from now.

[Aimforever]

Originally Posted by jbannick18

Do you think a regular a350 would have the brightness you are talking about on a 34 gallon solana? I've noticed the darkness with every led I've seen and have been wary about making the switch from t5.

It depends how many T5 bulbs you have now and what kind of corals you have. You may be able to get by with 1.

Originally Posted by Dazed1

I've had my 350W over my 3' tank for about 1.5 weeks. And i kind of agree. Something feels a little dull. Specially the corners.
Luckily I do not have too many SPS or high light corals yet, since I recently started this tank. I'm thinking I'll probably have to go with 2 x radion's 6 months from now.

Or you could add a few more 350s

[franklypre]

Dazed I've had a 400w over my 58 3ft and it was still a little dim towards the sides, that's just point source lighting. Anybody running these with T5s to supplement?

[Dazed1]

Originally Posted by Aimforever

Or you could add a few more 350s

If they come up with a controller, yes. That's one thing missing from the kessil package.

[bwp]

Originally Posted by jbannick18

Do you think a regular a350 would have the brightness you are talking about on a 34 gallon solana? I've noticed the darkness with every led I've seen and have been wary about making the switch from t5.

I previously posted a pic and video of the A350 (not wide) over my Solana. I am still trying to get ahold of a PAR meter, but it feels like it is at least as bright as the 150MH it replaced with both channels at 100%. I have mine mounted 11.5 inches above water and it easily covers the entire tank

-Bryan