AlgaeFix Marine to control Hair Algae

[HighlandReefer]

Originally Posted by hobbzz

Should you continue the use of a skimmer, gac, and gfo while dosing? If not, how long after dosing should you wait to run the skimmer and reactors?

I have the same stuff that CeeGee had here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ghlight=fungus

Yes, you should continue skimming, running GAC & GFO while dosing. It is important to get as much algae out of your system just before each dose. Keep in mind that AF breaks down within 24 hrs. If you don't remove dead, dieing or new algae, it will simply break down and release more nutrinets into your water.

With this Ghost algae, as I call it, it is important to scurb it off and filter it out as much as possible.

[HighlandReefer]

Brandon,

I agree. Prevention (through a quarantine system) is a major control measure to prevent possible heart aches down the road. Jumping on the pest is important as well. Nothing replaces scrubbing & filtering out the pest and debris & if this is done immediately, one can hopefully prevent it from getting out of control.

It is nice to have some other options when hobbyists find themselves hopelessly lost as to where to begin to start. Your H2O2 thread seems to have some credence as well.

[hobbzz]

Thanks Cliff.

[HighlandReefer]

You're welcome.

Let us know how it works out.

[hobbzz]

Will do. Petsmart lists it on their website, hopefully they'll have some in stock in town.

[hobbzz]

Just checked the website and it doesn't say anything about online only. Just in case, where is everyone else getting it? Online I'm assuming?

[HighlandReefer]

For online look at these prices for AlgaeFix Marine and compare prices:

http://www.google.com/#pq=algaefix+m...w=1344&bih=702

[hobbzz]

I'd prefer local, but some is better than none lol.

[1sirjustis]

Me Babcock? I've used MA in the past w great success but now I want to know I'm on my 3rd dose. Will it clear up my Dino's? It's really bad or should I drop the po4 first? My HA is gone but Dino's remains...

[HighlandReefer]

Dinos are not on the AF label. I have not heard that it will work on them.

[Crush Coral]

I have been dosing 6 ml every three days for 5 treatments now and it has not touched my HA. The only detrimental effect I had was that where my extra flow from my pump was pointed at my montipora cap, the live tissue blew off the skeloton, I redirected the flow and no more problems. Some of my corals are not extending their tenticals like normal but seem OK. I put a call into Algafix to ask how long to keep dosing before giving up.

[HighlandReefer]

From the posts in this thread it seems most hobbyists will at least start to see results after the 5th or 6th dose of AF. If it does not work by the 10th dose I would definitely call it quits.

I would be interested to hear what the manufacturer has to say.

I would love to see some good quality, preferably close-up pics of your pest if possible.

[biecacka]

i have a bit of cyano and a bit of GHA, I'm using chemiclean for the cyano. i assume this will have no real affect on the GHA. the problem i have is i have a foam wall and some of it is attached to the rocks on the foam wall. so i can't take them out and scrub them or use h202 or anything. i guess ill try the AF after i let this chemiclean run its course and do a big water change.... who knows a 50 gallon change might really help!!
corey

[biecacka]

do i turn my skimmer off during this? stop running carbon? for how long??
my lfs is telling me that the AF and the AF marine are the same and that either will work. is this true?
corey

[HighlandReefer]

Sorry I missed your first post.

I would not use AF and ChemiClean at the same time. There are enough problems reported when using ChemiClean alone.

You want to continue to skim, run carbon and GFO if you run it, during the AF treatment process. It is important to remove as much algae before each application as possible, otherwise the algae will simply die and release nutrients back into your water and possibly enhance the current problems. Remember AF only last about 24 hrs at most, since it breaks down quickly. Additional filtration methods such as filter socks or perhaps a diatom filter will help collect dead and dieing algae parts that get into the water from cleaning.....etc.

We have had a couple posts in this thread by an employee that works for the manufacturer. He inquired within the company and stated that both AlgaeFix Marine and AlgaeFix for fresh water are the same product, however the labels on the product are different. The dosing rate is the same.

[biecacka]

thank you cliff. i am done using the chemiclean and i seen little results in it. but the good thing is i seen no stress on the fish. does AF stress fish out. mine seem to be all in hiding!!! and not very active
corey

[HighlandReefer]

If the fish are hiding it is possible they were stressed by the chemiclean treatment (reduces oxygen and can cause heavy breathing in fish).

Perhaps wait a week for full recovery of your system before you start the AF treatment.

I don't recall any significant reports of fish losses.

Seaslugs have died after AF treatment, which may be an issue or perhaps a side-effect from loss of a food source.

Very few coral losses that I recall from AF treatment, but there were a few, which may be significant for a few sensitive species. Some coral withdrawal for a while.

[HighlandReefer]

Strictly follow the label on the AF regarding dosing periods and amounts. Increasing the dosage amount has caused problems for a couple of hobbyists who tried it. When I called the rep for AF, he stated one accidental double dose, should not cause problems, but I would not intentionally try this. From the posts here you should see results by around the 6th dose. If after 10 doses and no results I would stop. Extended dosing has caused loss of some macroalgae like Chaeto, which I experienced. Remeber, AF does not work on all species of algae.

I wish you success with your pest.

[biecacka]

i dosed the chemiclean 5 days ago tho, i thought it'd be just about out by now. for the record it DIDNT help my algae at all. i am thinking its GHA i have as well as cyano or a turf algae of sorts. I'm wanting any method to eradicate it. can should i run gfo and dose carbon as well?
it is on my back wall and covered in my rocks
corey

[HighlandReefer]

I would run GFO during the AF treatment process. I don't see where dosing a carbon source during the process would hurt, many others have continued.

It is my understanding that Chemiclean has an antibiotic in it which will only kill bacteria and cyanobacteria that are suseptable to it, not algae.

AF will kill bacteria, a couple species of cyano (listed on the label) and species of algae listed on the label for certain and perhaps others not tested. AF seems to effect the simple string algae the most (called hair algae) and not the higher macro-algae as much. The siphonous algae are not effected by AF, for example Bryopsis.

[biecacka]

by saying chemiclean didn't help my algae i meant my cyano issue
each day i think about pulling all my rock out and dipping it in acid but its nor realistic
corey

[HighlandReefer]

Lights out for a few days repeated with lights on between seems to help in conjunction with reduced nutrients.

FWIW, this is Boomer's recommendations for cyano control:

"Some added thoughts from over the years from many

The only known fish to eat Cyano is Amblygobius stethophthalmus and it needs to be the real one not its close relative that is often Mis-ID with it.

A 2- 3 month scheme

1. Water changes. 25% weekly.

2. Bare bottom refugium only for cheato nutrient export and not for critters.

3. Siphon, sump, refugium, etc. every week during water change and clean all filter you have.

4. Blow off all the Cyano and settled stuff you can so it can be siphoned off.

5. Clean out skimmer and cup every week.

6. Carbon, 1 cup per 50 gallons / 2 wks. Try to use ROX

7. GFO -HC , change every month.

8. Purigen, every month

9. Soak frozen food in RO/DI and discard water before use. This is especially true for brine shrimp. Matter of fact I use to pour off the water, and then fill it back up, to repeat it until there was only whole brine shrimp in the container.

10. Read what is in the food and look for things low in phosphates.

11. Keep the pH in the very low 8's or very high 7's, as Cyano will out compete other algae's in higher pH water.

12. The # 1 limiting nutrient for Cyano is N, not P based on studies in various microbiology texts.

13. During these water changes and blowing stuff off and siphoning it up run a Diatom filter with a second cake of PAC (Powdered activated carbon).

14. Increase water flow where Cyano are growing, as they do not like high currents.

15. Shutting of all lights, almost total darkness for 48 hr. every few days.

Last resort is Chemi-Clean by Boyd."

[biecacka]

ok!!

heres a good shot of my other algae issue

corey

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I've read almost none of the 75 pages of this thread, I will note that the active ingredients listed by the various sellers of Algaefix are so utterly confused as to be ludicrous.

If you believed Dr. F&S you'd thing it contained dichloroethane
Active ingredients:
Poly Oxyethylene, Ethyl ENR, Ethylene Dichloride.

A correct name for the single ingredient is
Poly(oxyethylene) (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene dichloride

This is a picture of what the active ingredient looks like according the the PAN pesticide database:

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...Rec_Id=PC34167

http://www.lookchem.com/cas-315/31512-74-0.html

[HighlandReefer]

I appreciate your input Randy.


I would like to point out (has been done earlier in this long thread) that the active ingredient in AlgaeFix is a potent biocide used for other purposes to kill all micro-organisms at higher levels, hence my recommendation to strictly follow the label.

For those interested the active ingredient in AF was discussed in more detail in this thread:

Chemical Control of algae?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...light=algaefix

IMO, AlgaeFix should be used as a last resort after implementing the standard recommendations for algae control.

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This is my standard recommendations for algae control:

There is no miracle cure for algae, dinoflagellate, cyanobacteria & diatom pests in a reef tank.

The bottom line is that you want to reduce nitrate, phosphate, dissolved organics and suspended organics. You need to say no to all pests present in your tank and all debris in your tank. Keep a spick and span tank including the sand bed and glass. This will need to be completed often to erradicate these type of pests.


There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae and/or cyanobacterial pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of soft coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest even when phosphate and nitrate are extemely low. Vinegar dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either. It has been shown in research that vinegar will not promote cyano growth, whereas ethanol will.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a category correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these categories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algae, cyanobacteria or dinoflagellate type pest problem, it is best to implement an a pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or vinegar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) Running a diatom filter which has been suggested by Boomer, makes a lot of sense to me. It will help remove a lot of organic material in your water column.

16) Keep your sand bed clean if it is a shallow bed weekly by vacuuming it. Lightly vacuume deep sand bed surfaces.

17) Keep your tank glass clean all the way around regularly. Perhaps it will need to be done 2 to three times a week if growth is fast.

18) For some additional thoughts regarding switching an algae or cyano based system to a bacterial based system see this thread:

Why should you use just vinegar as your carbon source?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2101969

19) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.
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If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine for controlling hair algae, based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1595003

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.