Is it about time to change the T5 light bulbs? Par meter readings - Page 23

DML08 · 03/06/2011, 02:31 PM

Wow Snaza, Awesome Numbers My friend....

kangym · 03/06/2011, 04:04 PM

Thanks for sharing snaza.
Could you tell us your T5 lamp combination? Are those 7 months old lamps blue+?

snaza · 03/06/2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangym

Thanks for sharing snaza.
Could you tell us your T5 lamp combination? Are those 7 months old lamps blue+?

2AB and 2B+ are older.

front

B+
AB
B+
B+
Fiji
AB
B+
AB
B+
AB

BHD · 03/22/2011, 10:05 AM

Hello Everyone,

I ordered a ATI Sunpower 6x54 watts and it will be here tomorrow. On page 19 or so of this thread, it was mentioned that all the end of the bulb with the label should on one side (the side of the power cord?) and the label facing upward toward the fan.

Is there any reason for this?
I never see a Sunpower on the outside but in the picture it only has 2 fans in the middle of the fixture. So even if I were to line up all my bulbs with the label ends on one side (the side of the power cord), there would be no fan blowing cool air directly on label ends right??

I am a bit confused, can someone clear this up for me? Whats the best way to put all the bulbs into the slots so it would work out properly.

Thanks

rtparty · 03/22/2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHD

Hello Everyone,

I ordered a ATI Sunpower 6x54 watts and it will be here tomorrow. On page 19 or so of this thread, it was mentioned that all the end of the bulb with the label should on one side (the side of the power cord?) and the label facing upward toward the fan.

Is there any reason for this?
I never see a Sunpower on the outside but in the picture it only has 2 fans in the middle of the fixture. So even if I were to line up all my bulbs with the label ends on one side (the side of the power cord), there would be no fan blowing cool air directly on label ends right??

I am a bit confused, can someone clear this up for me? Whats the best way to put all the bulbs into the slots so it would work out properly.

Thanks

When you get your fixture, look at it closely. You will see on one side there will be some holes. This is where the cool air comes in from.

The fans pull air into the fixture, over the ballasts and then through the vents to cool the cold spot on the bulbs. The air then travels the length of the bulb and out the side. There is a gap left between the fixture housing and the acrylic shield. When you get the fixture in your hands you will understand it all.

Which way the label faces doesn't matter. The labels can point up or down. It is important to have all the label ends on the same side where the vents are.

There is a picture of exactly what I described. Don't look at the bulbs because the person that took that picture had the bulbs in wrong. The labels should be over those vents.

BHD · 03/22/2011, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the quick reply.

So the bulb end with the label is the cool spot of the bulb that is needed to be cooled under the vent then?

If the temperature of this cool spot around the label is 95F then it is the ideal temperature?

I ordered 6 bulbs:
3 ATI Blue Plus
1 ATI AquaBlue Special
1 ATI Purple Plus
1 GE 6500K.

What would be the best line up for these bulbs to get the crisp white with some blue. The color around 14K phoenix bulb? or its doesn't really matter how they are line up, as long as those 6 bulbs in there, all line ups and combinations will produce the exact same color?

thanks alot for your time.

kangym · 03/22/2011, 10:12 PM

You can find the discussion on page 10 about the ideal lamp temperature. Sunpower has fewer fans than PM, you might need to increase the fan speed for better cooling. Do you have par meter at hand? It will help us to find out the difference between SP and PM. BTW, your combo is right on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Grim Reefer

According to everything I've read you want the ambient temperature around to lamp at 95 degrees and the metal cap on the label end about 113 degrees.

Unless you have a light meter it is impossible to say what the perfect amount of cooling will be on your setup but getting the metal caps as close to 113 as possible should be a pretty good place to be. Unfortunately with water proof endcaps that is hard to to. You can pull the locking rings off and measure the metal but it's hard to say how much hotter the lamp end will be once you place the ring back on.

Perhaps removing the rings at both ends, setting the fan so the optimal temperature at the cold spot metal cap is reached, then also taking a reading at the other end's metal cap would work. Then you could replace the ring at the cold spot end but leave it off the other side so you can monitor the temperature at that end. Then you can fine tune your fan(s) so you get that end back to the ideal temperature with the rings in place on the cold spot side. Then just button everything back up and in theory you would be near optimum temperature.

I hope that wasn't too confusing.

snaza · 03/22/2011, 10:47 PM

Hey Guys,

Just did some testing on my mates tank while I had the PAR meter. Sorry but i dont have a photo. Tank was 24 inch tall and had 6 bulb sunpower.

B+
Actinic
B+
PP
AB
B+

PAR reedings are from the centre of the fixture and was about 8inch from the water

950 under fixture
520 1 inch under water
400 12 inch under water
290 Sand Bed

I was actually suprised as my ATI PM had WAY more PAR. check back a few pages for my photo

cheers

Aaron

DML08 · 03/23/2011, 01:31 AM

Which way does the ATI fans run? Do they blow air in or out?

snaza · 03/23/2011, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DML08

Which way does the ATI fans run? Do they blow air in or out?

Blow in

BHD · 03/23/2011, 08:02 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Honestly I had no idea what Par was until I read this thread. So what do you guys think of the SunPower 6x54watts for a 75 gallons tank with dimension of 48"L x 18"W x 21"H.

Will I be able to keep SPS on the Sandbed or about 3 inches above the sandbed?

I will be hanging the light about 6-7 inches above the water. From the Par reading of snaza's friend's Sunpower 6x54 watts, the Par on the sandbed is only 290 which kind of worry me a bit. I think I read somewhere that in order to keep SPS, I need 300-500 Par.

rtparty · 03/23/2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHD

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Honestly I had no idea what Par was until I read this thread. So what do you guys think of the SunPower 6x54watts for a 75 gallons tank with dimension of 48"L x 18"W x 21"H.

Will I be able to keep SPS on the Sandbed or about 3 inches above the sandbed?

I will be hanging the light about 6-7 inches above the water. From the Par reading of snaza's friend's Sunpower 6x54 watts, the Par on the sandbed is only 290 which kind of worry me a bit. I think I read somewhere that in order to keep SPS, I need 300-500 Par.

290 PAR will pretty much melt LPS.

I have found that SPS can thrive with PAR 100+. I wouldn't recommend throwing a bunch of SPS in that PAR range but they can live with it. Growth might not be as great compared to having that same piece in like 400 PAR though.

rtparty · 03/23/2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaza

Hey Guys,

Just did some testing on my mates tank while I had the PAR meter. Sorry but i dont have a photo. Tank was 24 inch tall and had 6 bulb sunpower.

B+
Actinic
B+
PP
AB
B+

PAR reedings are from the centre of the fixture and was about 8inch from the water

950 under fixture
520 1 inch under water
400 12 inch under water
290 Sand Bed

I was actually suprised as my ATI PM had WAY more PAR. check back a few pages for my photo

cheers

Aaron

Aaron,

What were the fan settings?

Also that actinic is killing PAR. A Blue Plus puts out 3-4x more PAR than an actinic. I remember kangym mentioning that if he turned off 2 of the Blue Plus bulbs, PAR dropped 200 points!

I would bet with a Blue Plus in place of an actinic, his PAR gets up to 1050 at the surface.

JPMagyar · 03/31/2011, 10:30 AM

Been lurking on this thread for some time and just want to say "Thanks" for such an informative body of work. All you guys deserve major kudos for the time and effort that's gone into collecting information here, and since I love numbers myself I thought I'd add a tiny data point to the collection already here. I don't know how to put those fancy red numbers on a photo, but I promise to learn soon, but in the meantime here's my tiny addition.

The fixture in question is a real cheapo horticulture fixture (C.A.P Maxlume) that I bought as part of another project I'm working on to find ways to make reefing more affordable, and of course the readings are umol/m2/sec taken with an Apogee MQ-200. With the lamps 4.5 inches above the water I get:

dead center 600
center right 510
center left 530

bottom of tank dead center 110
center right 90
center left 100

also I used a temp gun to check the label side "cool spot" temps when the fixture was in steady state on. The order is also the bulb order back to front.

ATI AquaSpecial 42* C
ATI Blue + 36* C
KZ Fiji Purple 36* C
ATI AquaSpecial 46*c
ATI Blue + 37* C
ATI New Gen 37* C

The bulbs are 4 weeks old, and the pictures below are 4 week old frags, the fixture in question, and the infrared temp gun I used to take the lamp readings.

Thanks again for such a great thread!

Joe

kangym · 03/31/2011, 04:05 PM

Thanks for sharing JPMagyar.
I add the red color numbers at photobucket.com under edit/docorate/text/, and select the red color, check the transparent background.
How deep is your frag tank? What wattage is your T5 fixture? Looks like there is no active cooling fan, but the PAR readings are great for your 6 bulbs T5.
BTW, you have a gorgeous tank. TOTM pretty soon......

dixiedog · 03/31/2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangym

Thanks for sharing JPMagyar.
I add the red color numbers at photobucket.com under edit/docorate/text/, and select the red color, check the transparent background.
How deep is your frag tank? What wattage is your T5 fixture? Looks like there is no active cooling fan, but the PAR readings are great for your 6 bulbs T5.
BTW, you have a gorgeous tank. TOTM pretty soon......

Good ol' Paint will do it too.

JPMagyar · 03/31/2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangym

Thanks for sharing JPMagyar.
I add the red color numbers at photobucket.com under edit/docorate/text/, and select the red color, check the transparent background.
How deep is your frag tank? What wattage is your T5 fixture? Looks like there is no active cooling fan, but the PAR readings are great for your 6 bulbs T5.
BTW, you have a gorgeous tank. TOTM pretty soon......

Thanks for the notice. I'm afraid I made a few fatal poor personal choices that may preclude such honors for awhile, but I certainly appreciate notice from accomplished aquarists like yourself! Anyways, thanks for the tip. I got it figured out now. What do you think about a post showing my readings on my Radium lit tank as a simple point of reference?

Also, and this is getting slightly off topic here, but what do you think about a major experiment where I switch to an all T5 setup? I look at tanks like yours and wonder if T5s don't make for unbelievable color and keep wondering if I could "Kick It Up a Notch" colorwise. The problem is I'm so dedicated to Radiums that I can't seem to make the leap, but . . . if you guys thought it would work I might be willing to give it a try. It certainly would make for one heck of an experiment! In any case, thanks for the recognition.

Joe

P.S. The frag tank is 24 inches deep, and the fixure is 6 x 24 watt with no fan which was the big surprise when I checked the temps. Makes me think the lamps are designed to operate with no cooling close to their optimal temperature since the manufacturers of T5 HO certainly did not have aquarists in mind when the developed the technology, and the majority of their customers would never add cooling to their lighting. I really wonder who they developed this technology for?

kangym · 03/31/2011, 08:01 PM

I desperately would like to see your tank picture with PAR readings here. You can also compare the PAR readings between your Radium setup and T5. IMHO, Radium bulb is very unique and difficult to beat. To match the Radium look with T5, you have to add a few actinics in the T5 lineup. But that will also kill the PAR. I switched from MH to T5 with NO REGRET.

kangym · 04/01/2011, 05:39 PM

PAR readings
ATI PM 10x54W T5 HO, fixture 9 in. from water line, fan speed at 9v.
Front to back
ATI Blue+
ATI Blue+
ATI Purple+
GE 6500k
ATI Blue+
ATI Blue+
Aquablue spec.
ATI Blue+
ATI Purple+
ATI Blue+

PAR readings of new T5 lamps on 12-18-2010

PAR readings of 3.5 months old lamps on 4-1-2011

reefknight · 04/02/2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangym

PAR readings
ATI PM 10x54W T5 HO, fixture 9 in. from water line, fan speed at 9v.
Front to back
ATI Blue+
ATI Blue+
ATI Purple+
GE 6500k
ATI Blue+
ATI Blue+
Aquablue spec.
ATI Blue+
ATI Purple+
ATI Blue+

PAR readings of new T5 lamps on 12-18-2010

PAR readings of 3.5 months old lamps on 4-1-2011

Thank you for taking the time to post such useful information and if I haven't stated it before, your display is gorgeous!

I am starting me new system currently and am going to be using the same fixture. Do you find that with your current bulb selection that you can sustain clams on the sandbed? I noticed that between your two photos that the two to the left are no longer there. I'm a sucker for a nice T. crocea or T. maxima and am creating a space to the side for a few LPS and clams. I'm just curious if there is enough PAR to keep them happy and healthy?

kangym · 04/02/2011, 12:50 PM

Thank you reefknight.
I don't have good luck of keeping the clam in my tank. Mostly they are killed by fish nipping, esp. yellow tangs. Recently, I found the long-nose butterfly were nipping my clams and it had killed two of the T. Maxima.
To my observation, PAR ranges from 150 to 200 is sufficient to keep the clam at the sand bed, but the color will look pale. Personally, I like to keep the PAR over 200 for clams.

dixiedog · 04/14/2011, 05:22 AM

I'm at the ten month mark now. Here are my readings - new, at 6 months, and at ten months. I think I'm gonna relamp soon.

Kangym, at the very beginning of this thread, I think you said you were running 2x blue+ bulbs for 11 hours, an all the rest for nine hours. Is this still the case?

[IMG]http://i52.*******.com/66lsbb.jpg[/IMG]

dixiedog · 04/14/2011, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangym

Thank you reefknight.
I don't have good luck of keeping the clam in my tank. Mostly they are killed by fish nipping, esp. yellow tangs. Recently, I found the long-nose butterfly were nipping my clams and it had killed two of the T. Maxima.
To my observation, PAR ranges from 150 to 200 is sufficient to keep the clam at the sand bed, but the color will look pale. Personally, I like to keep the PAR over 200 for clams.

+1, I was keeping a Maxima happy for several months (til I got pyramid snails) down on the far right where the PAR averages around 200, over the life of the bulbs. Now he's in my frag tank under cheap bulbs and he's not that pretty anymore.

StevieK · 04/14/2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixiedog

I'm at the ten month mark now. Here are my readings - new, at 6 months, and at ten months. I think I'm gonna relamp soon.

Kangym, at the very beginning of this thread, I think you said you were running 2x blue+ bulbs for 11 hours, an all the rest for nine hours. Is this still the case?

[IMG]http://i52.*******.com/66lsbb.jpg[/IMG]

dixie dog,

my setup is not dissimilar to yours so i will keep a close eye on kangym's response. would love to know.

StevieK · 04/14/2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaza

No problems. I was really suprised with my numbers on the sand. If i droped the fixture i could probably get 700 on the SB. i have no where for my zoas and LPS (-:

the fixture sits to the left of the tank. thats why the numbers are small on that side. good area for my lps i guess

Snaza,

with your fixture are you keeping the plastic shield on? if so, how often do you clean it.

great numbers

steviek

03/22/2011, 10:47 PM	#558
snaza Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 1,393	Hey Guys, Just did some testing on my mates tank while I had the PAR meter. Sorry but i dont have a photo. Tank was 24 inch tall and had 6 bulb sunpower. B+ Actinic B+ PP AB B+ PAR reedings are from the centre of the fixture and was about 8inch from the water 950 under fixture 520 1 inch under water 400 12 inch under water 290 Sand Bed I was actually suprised as my ATI PM had WAY more PAR. check back a few pages for my photo cheers Aaron __________________ T5 SPS 60x33x20 Display Tank + 50x16x8 Frag Tank - 10x54W ATI Powermodule \| 2 x Tunze 6205 \| Tunze 6105 \| 2 x modded Tunze 6025 \| Polario 15ML (Frag Tank) \| ATB white cone Skimmer with Airstar 1500 \| WM Ecobak in TLF 550 Current Tank Info: 60x33x20 SPS T5 DT + 52x16x8 FT, 4x2x2, 30x10x8

03/06/2011, 02:31 PM	#551
DML08 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: los banos, ca Posts: 994	Wow Snaza, Awesome Numbers My friend....

03/06/2011, 04:04 PM	#552
kangym Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Posts: 348	Thanks for sharing snaza. Could you tell us your T5 lamp combination? Are those 7 months old lamps blue+?

03/22/2011, 10:05 AM	#554
BHD Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: OC Posts: 267	Hello Everyone, I ordered a ATI Sunpower 6x54 watts and it will be here tomorrow. On page 19 or so of this thread, it was mentioned that all the end of the bulb with the label should on one side (the side of the power cord?) and the label facing upward toward the fan. Is there any reason for this? I never see a Sunpower on the outside but in the picture it only has 2 fans in the middle of the fixture. So even if I were to line up all my bulbs with the label ends on one side (the side of the power cord), there would be no fan blowing cool air directly on label ends right?? I am a bit confused, can someone clear this up for me? Whats the best way to put all the bulbs into the slots so it would work out properly. Thanks

03/22/2011, 11:53 AM	#556
BHD Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: OC Posts: 267	Thanks for the quick reply. So the bulb end with the label is the cool spot of the bulb that is needed to be cooled under the vent then? If the temperature of this cool spot around the label is 95F then it is the ideal temperature? I ordered 6 bulbs: 3 ATI Blue Plus 1 ATI AquaBlue Special 1 ATI Purple Plus 1 GE 6500K. What would be the best line up for these bulbs to get the crisp white with some blue. The color around 14K phoenix bulb? or its doesn't really matter how they are line up, as long as those 6 bulbs in there, all line ups and combinations will produce the exact same color? thanks alot for your time.

03/23/2011, 01:31 AM	#559
DML08 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: los banos, ca Posts: 994	Which way does the ATI fans run? Do they blow air in or out?

03/23/2011, 08:02 AM	#561
BHD Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: OC Posts: 267	Thanks for the replies everyone, Honestly I had no idea what Par was until I read this thread. So what do you guys think of the SunPower 6x54watts for a 75 gallons tank with dimension of 48"L x 18"W x 21"H. Will I be able to keep SPS on the Sandbed or about 3 inches above the sandbed? I will be hanging the light about 6-7 inches above the water. From the Par reading of snaza's friend's Sunpower 6x54 watts, the Par on the sandbed is only 290 which kind of worry me a bit. I think I read somewhere that in order to keep SPS, I need 300-500 Par.

03/31/2011, 10:30 AM	#564
JPMagyar Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 2,072	Been lurking on this thread for some time and just want to say "Thanks" for such an informative body of work. All you guys deserve major kudos for the time and effort that's gone into collecting information here, and since I love numbers myself I thought I'd add a tiny data point to the collection already here. I don't know how to put those fancy red numbers on a photo, but I promise to learn soon, but in the meantime here's my tiny addition. The fixture in question is a real cheapo horticulture fixture (C.A.P Maxlume) that I bought as part of another project I'm working on to find ways to make reefing more affordable, and of course the readings are umol/m2/sec taken with an Apogee MQ-200. With the lamps 4.5 inches above the water I get: dead center 600 center right 510 center left 530 bottom of tank dead center 110 center right 90 center left 100 also I used a temp gun to check the label side "cool spot" temps when the fixture was in steady state on. The order is also the bulb order back to front. ATI AquaSpecial 42* C ATI Blue + 36* C KZ Fiji Purple 36* C ATI AquaSpecial 46c ATI Blue + 37 C ATI New Gen 37* C The bulbs are 4 weeks old, and the pictures below are 4 week old frags, the fixture in question, and the infrared temp gun I used to take the lamp readings. Thanks again for such a great thread! Joe

03/31/2011, 04:05 PM	#565
kangym Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Posts: 348	Thanks for sharing JPMagyar. I add the red color numbers at photobucket.com under edit/docorate/text/, and select the red color, check the transparent background. How deep is your frag tank? What wattage is your T5 fixture? Looks like there is no active cooling fan, but the PAR readings are great for your 6 bulbs T5. BTW, you have a gorgeous tank. TOTM pretty soon......

03/31/2011, 08:01 PM	#568
kangym Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Posts: 348	I desperately would like to see your tank picture with PAR readings here. You can also compare the PAR readings between your Radium setup and T5. IMHO, Radium bulb is very unique and difficult to beat. To match the Radium look with T5, you have to add a few actinics in the T5 lineup. But that will also kill the PAR. I switched from MH to T5 with NO REGRET.

04/01/2011, 05:39 PM	#569
kangym Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Posts: 348	PAR readings ATI PM 10x54W T5 HO, fixture 9 in. from water line, fan speed at 9v. Front to back ATI Blue+ ATI Blue+ ATI Purple+ GE 6500k ATI Blue+ ATI Blue+ Aquablue spec. ATI Blue+ ATI Purple+ ATI Blue+ PAR readings of new T5 lamps on 12-18-2010 PAR readings of 3.5 months old lamps on 4-1-2011

04/02/2011, 12:50 PM	#571
kangym Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CA Posts: 348	Thank you reefknight. I don't have good luck of keeping the clam in my tank. Mostly they are killed by fish nipping, esp. yellow tangs. Recently, I found the long-nose butterfly were nipping my clams and it had killed two of the T. Maxima. To my observation, PAR ranges from 150 to 200 is sufficient to keep the clam at the sand bed, but the color will look pale. Personally, I like to keep the PAR over 200 for clams.

04/14/2011, 05:22 AM	#572
dixiedog Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gainesville, Florida Posts: 1,626	I'm at the ten month mark now. Here are my readings - new, at 6 months, and at ten months. I think I'm gonna relamp soon. Kangym, at the very beginning of this thread, I think you said you were running 2x blue+ bulbs for 11 hours, an all the rest for nine hours. Is this still the case? [IMG]http://i52.*******.com/66lsbb.jpg[/IMG]