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Unread 07/21/2018, 12:35 PM   #1
Sk8r
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How does ich operate?

To take the mystery out of ich, think of it as having fleas. The problems are similar. It's not a disease, it's an ittybitty parasite, so small our eyes can't see it, which (as fleas don't) gets under the skin and raises a pimple. Once this bursts, the pest, having fed on fishy fluids, heads for the sandbed (particularly where fish may sleep at night) to complete its life cycle and reproduce. In time, a horde of little swimmers launch forth, a new crop of little fleas looking for a fish. They'll settle in the gills, on the body, wherever they can, and the pimples will form, and that's the way it goes, round and round.

A fish's natural defense against this pest is slime. A healthy slime coat stands it off, and a fish is easiest prey to it when a) stressed b) when the alkalinity is below 7.9 [I like 8.3 as a setting] ---and c) when a fish's slime is compromised by shipping, moving, being in a bag, being netted, being starved, or generally messed with---that fish is the best target for it to penetrate his skin successfully and find a home.

On the ich's side of things, the little parasites have one need in order to reproduce: they have to have a fish. And they have to get through its slime coat. Once they do---you're in for another round, as the pest drops off, and comes back tenfold.

TTM (tank transfer) uses its own strategy against it. You change the fish's tank once the pest has dropped, and you clean that tank, killing the pest, and keep that exchange of tanks going until you can pretty well say your fish has calmed down after its adventure and fed up and gotten healthy. In simple terms, we've thinned the herd, and the fish has its barriers up. After a time of observation, you can put your fish back in the tank.

How long can ich wait for a fish? Once it's launched looking for one it has to latch on within hours, or die. But it can wait in the sandbed or rock for about 72 days before it needs to make its run for a fish. No fish around for 72 days---and our invaders fizzle and die. Poor things.

ONLY a fish can serve. Only a fish will do, when it comes to ich's reproduction. It can travel in a water drop, so keep fish store water out of your tank: I give my inverts a little swish in old tank water and toss that before putting them in. With fish, qt them and watch for pimples. With corals---dip them: they have their own problems; and keep soft coral under observation in their own qt, because their pests lay eggs.

I hope that this makes things a little more sensible. It's not true that tanks always have ich---it's also not true that it develops spontaneously from fish being stressed. It's like fleas. They can ride in on you and hop onto your dog. In this case, fish. But it's very similar. Wish we had 'flea powder' for fish, but unfortunately, what kills the ich would do in your tank biostructure, so to protect the tank, we do our treatment in a different tank. And you're not about to say my spaniel has fleas but I'm sure my terrier doesn't. Nope. Not real likely in the fish tank either. If your clown has ich, bet your other fish either has it or will be the next target.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/21/2018, 05:07 PM   #2
Uncle99
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Good synopsis, good timing, seeing a lot of Ick questions.
Thanks!


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Unread 07/23/2018, 01:33 PM   #3
Icewing726
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Can someone post the link to the study that says Ich survives 72 days at normal temperatures? To date the only study I've seen says the life span went that duration at a temp of around 54 degrees.


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Unread 07/23/2018, 04:56 PM   #4
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72 days is the standard this hobby has ad hoc agreed upon as a time after which you are PROBABLY safe. "d. A minimum quarantine period of 3–6 weeks at 24–27°C (75.2–80.6°F), is advised, and longer time frames (e.g., 7–11 weeks) may be necessary."from http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164 THe same is fairly true of trying to outwait brooklynella.


Once you know 100% that you HAVE it, it's a good idea to go to the wide side of the recommended treatment, because having a second round is just a downer.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/24/2018, 08:54 AM   #5
shaginwagon13
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Question:

I have read that ICH can also attach to the gills, which has nothing to do with the slime coat. So even if the fish is healthy (slime coat is nice and thick) / fish is not stressed, is it also not plausible that your fish can carry since ICH can be in the gills?


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Unread 07/24/2018, 11:31 AM   #6
Sk8r
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The gills also involve slime, at least as far as my lake fishing experience goes---ditto the inside of mouth and gullet, and probably all the way down. It is definite that you might miss it, and it could happen, but there is one clue that ich IS in the gills, which is the protrusion of gill tissue (filmy-looking) from beneath the gill-cover (operculum), or the 'flaring' of gills, ie, outward movement of the operculum, like a shrug. This is kind of like a cough in a human---trying to clear the gills. It may do it after inhaling grit. But if it is running around habitually with the operculum flared a little or if gill tissue is showing an edge, it is time to suspect ich OR flukes in the gills.

Gills are one thing to look at specifically when buying a fish. If flared, don't buy.

For an absolute answer on slime protection in the gills, you'd have to consult a fish biologist... But watching behavior of the fish in its breathing is a pretty good clue.

Good question, that.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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Unread 07/24/2018, 11:33 AM   #7
shaginwagon13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
The gills also involve slime, at least as far as my lake fishing experience goes---ditto the inside of mouth and gullet, and probably all the way down. It is definite that you might miss it, and it could happen, but there is one clue that ich IS in the gills, which is the protrusion of gill tissue (filmy-looking) from beneath the gill-cover (operculum), or the 'flaring' of gills, ie, outward movement of the operculum, like a shrug. This is kind of like a cough in a human---trying to clear the gills. It may do it after inhaling grit. But if it is running around habitually with the operculum flared a little or if gill tissue is showing an edge, it is time to suspect ich OR flukes in the gills.

Gills are one thing to look at specifically when buying a fish. If flared, don't buy.

For an absolute answer on slime protection in the gills, you'd have to consult a fish biologist... But watching behavior of the fish in its breathing is a pretty good clue.

Good question, that.
I had no idea. I had ICH about a year ago and did Hypo for 85 days and it got rid of it.

Great thread here; lots of awesome information!


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Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
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Unread 07/24/2018, 11:36 AM   #8
Sk8r
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Just as a footnote---to avoid damaging your fish's slime coat, it is preferable to catch fish in a bucket or cup, so that the fabric doesn't snag a fin or gill cover (some species have a spike on the gill cover that can catch netting rather badly) or grate over the skin.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
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