Nov reefkeeping on scorpionfish

FMarini · 11/05/2002, 12:27 AM

Hey Guys:
if you haven't checked it out yet. This whole months issue is dedicated to scorpionfish. I got my way and everyone wrote an article on things w/ stings.
Hope it helps
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/

frank

RichSea7 · 11/06/2002, 01:54 AM

Great Article Frank ! Your article on Lionfish is one of the best I've ever read. It certainly answered a number of specificl questions I've had about various Lionfish species. (And all in one place too ! ) Ever consider writing an entire book on the topic ?

With your experience (and maybe a little extra research along with a few more pictures ) you could easily expand the material to fill at least 200 - 300 pages. Lionfish are one of the most interesting of all fish, and I don't know of any current or recent book that is devoted soley to Lionfish. The article answered many questions, but also raised many more. A full book on the topic by yourself could become a "classic" in the field of intelligent books for SW aquarists.

So how could you answer all the questions that beginning through advanced aquarists might have re: Lionfish ? Maybe expanding the section on potiential tank mates for Lions - by Lion species ? Obviously a Fuzzy Dwarf Lion would probably have a greater choice of tankmates than would P. Volitians. An expanded section with pictures of males vs. females in the species where gender can be identified. Perhaps a section on the natural environs of different Lion species in the wild with diving pictures of them in the proper reef zone and with the natural flora/fauna that they seek as camoflage in the wild ? Maybe a section on aquascaping for Lionfish ? Biotope Tanks where Lionfish are the "key" species that the tank is built around ? What about Reef Tanks for Lionfish ( Stressing hard and soft corals that specific Lionfish species are found with in the wild ) Vs. Reef Tanks with Lionfish.

Sorry, I just got carried away !

All I can say is that if you ever write and publish such a book, I'll be one of the first to buy it.

Sincerely,

Rich

mattsilvester · 11/06/2002, 06:13 PM

Hey frank, guys.

Well I just wanna puts my hands together for frank, great reading, no waffle, totally informative, and realistic. Also, not paddled out with the usual tripe that authors try to fill ion articles with.... i.e. rambling on more about systems and filters than the thing we wanna read about....the fish.

cheers,
Matt

PS. Be posting a volitans q in a minute ;-)

Mad Scientist · 11/09/2002, 05:29 PM

Frank,

Excellent article! Great pics too. That yellow fuzzy is unreal. It sure would be nice to have a quality lionfish book out there.....

M.Dandaneau · 11/09/2002, 08:41 PM

Very well done sir...my hat's off to you.
Actually there is a very good book out with extensive information about each lionfish species, with both wild and captive information.
"Reef Fishes" volume 1 by Scott W. Michael
Also contains the best species by species info I've yet found on scorpians and moreys.
A bit pricey, and I'm still waiting for volume 2, but very good.

Rollingman · 11/20/2002, 07:09 PM

Thanks Frank, great article. Could you tell me where i can get grass shrimp (harvested from
saltwater), fiddler crabs, small
shrimp or saltwater harvested
minnows .i'm sure nobody sells them in san antonio. thanks again david

FMarini · 11/20/2002, 10:04 PM

david:
thanks for the kind words.
To get those marine minnows and marine grass shrimp, you drive to Galveston w/ a net.
I am not aware of any place which sells then at a reasonable cost. I stumbled axcross a place a while back thats sold marine grass shrimp and minnows but wanted like $70 or 80 buck for 100.
You can search the web... I know not a good solution
frank

qwuintus · 11/27/2002, 11:19 AM

Cool article. Those fish look pretty wicked. Too bad they can only be kept with a few fish, but i think the lionfish would look good with it.

Grouperhead · 12/21/2002, 03:32 PM

Very nice Frank. Bo

mattsilvester · 01/12/2003, 05:52 AM

been here for a while now this post..........
every time I see it I think of my poor lion that I returned to the LFS - I'd nearly buy him back off him - he's getting quite big, and no one is guying him - dunno why he is a lovely specimen.

regards,
Matt

LionFish_au · 02/23/2003, 01:10 PM

Great article. Are lionfish good to start with as i'm new to sw, I have 2 tanks here with nothing in them, And i am looking at starting a sw tank.

Russel · 03/31/2003, 09:40 AM

I think that russells lionfish are one of the best starter sw fishes. They are very hardy, mine is extreamly friendly and of course the russells do not get to be as large as the volitans. The only two problems that i see with them is with weening them off feeder fish and the fact that they are venimous. Though, most people brush off the venimous part "i'll be extreamly cautious" I have often times found my hand less then an inch from the pectoral fin. Lionfish (in my opinion) are one of the best sw fish available.

haggplumb · 05/20/2003, 07:53 PM

Hey guys,

I also found Frank's article very informative... and GREAT pictures as well.

I am new to the hobby and the first fish in my 75gal FOWLR were two dwarf zebra lions. One doing excellent and one not accepting live ghost shrimp... I even dropped one with a wooden scewer right in front of him... nothing.

I was wondering about the need to wean these fish from live food... is it a health thing or is it a matter of availablity? I live in Tampa Bay and every LFS I go to has ghost shrimp for $1 per dozen. One place gave me about 20 the other day for $1!

Anyway it's sure is nice to have an expert among us.

Write that book Frank!

Thanks,

haggplumb

M.Dandaneau · 05/21/2003, 07:55 AM

Whoah.....ANOTHER Tampa Bay resident! Welcome!
The shrimp available in most local pet shops are fresh/brackish water, which brings up some issues as to completeness of nutrition, whereas local grass flats team with both ghost shrimp and mollies that are 100% marine and serve admirably for complete nutrition.
As an added plus, marine ghost shrimp that are kept in with the lions 24/7 are also the best hair algae removers/scavenggers that can be found anywhere, keeping your tank always looking as if the LR has been freshly scrubbed (they ignore soft corals and macroalgaes though, making them close to perfect)
I THINK the training to frozen food issue is inteended for the vast majority of the people not lucky enough to live by the sea.

haggplumb · 05/21/2003, 10:22 AM

Hey,

Thanks again for the reply... I just finished replying to your replay on another thread. I figured it was a logistics thing.

Thanks again... again,

haggplumb

FMarini · 05/27/2003, 01:10 PM

Hag:
I think both You and Mike have hit it on the head. There are many landlocked fish owners (myself included0 and the logistic/convience factors force us to use frozen marine foods. Would i like to catch daily shrimp and mollies for my critters, YUP. But until I move w/in 5 min of an ocean or tidal flat, I'll be weening piscavores onto frozen fair. Thats said I also thingk the live foods are prolly the better way to go, as its unclear what freezing does to micronutrients and I also have no idea how and what the frozen foods were fed before they were sac'd and frozen.

Glad you like the article, I'll let Mike start writing the book and i'll jump in
frank

haggplumb · 05/27/2003, 02:42 PM

Hey Frank,

Thanks for the input... I suspected something along those lines.

Don't feel too bad about not living in the beautiful Tampa Bay area... it's already about 300*F outside.LOL

Thanks,

haggplumb

M.Dandaneau · 05/27/2003, 06:56 PM

Hey Frank........not even TRYING to write the book, but if I can persevere enough to be able to contribute even occassionally with a helpful prologue to articles like your own, I'll be 300% satisfied.
At present, my cockiness has caught up with me in a major way and I'm battling a major infection that has attacked my lions, and honestly, with dubious success.
Having gotten overconfident, I was given a FuManchu lion (from a local LFS that wasn't having any success treating it) with what appeared to be an injury, possibly a puncture by another lion.
In reality, it's either a bacterial or virul infection that ends up very much like the flesh eating bacteria from Hell, and to make it worse, it seems to specifically target lions far worse than any other species.

know-it-all · 06/04/2003, 06:56 AM

great article

It answered almost all my questions

Only question left is how bad do the stings hurt

M.Dandaneau · 06/04/2003, 01:21 PM

REALLY bad! **grin**

kai · 07/02/2003, 04:29 PM

As for a Volitian Lions sting, it just makes your finger go numb for about a half an hour. Hurts a little but not too bad. It's similar to when you sit on the toliet reading an article for too long and when you get up your leg hurts. You can still use your finger. Never got up to my wrist or I might have headed to the doc's.

kai · 07/02/2003, 04:36 PM

As for a Volitian Lions sting, it just makes your finger go numb for about a half an hour. Hurts a little but not too bad. It's similar to when you sit on the toliet reading an article for too long and when you get up your leg hurts. You can still use your finger. Never got up to my wrist or I might have headed to the doc's.

MBvash · 09/13/2003, 06:14 PM

"Talk about a rare lionfish... this is the Ambon lionfish, a furry lion which utilizes its "fur' to hide amongst the plant life. Fortunately, this rare lion never makes it into the hobby."

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...CatId=280&cc=1

=(

M.Dandaneau · 09/14/2003, 12:56 PM

They actually DO make it into the aquarium trade, but as you can see, always at a high price.
The colored forms (red, yellow, purple) often run twice this much, and even at this price are eagerly sought.

ignite1402 · 09/15/2003, 09:22 PM

haha the sting do hurt alot man!!! it's almost like a bee sting to me!

11/05/2002, 12:27 AM	#1
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	Nov reefkeeping on scorpionfish Hey Guys: if you haven't checked it out yet. This whole months issue is dedicated to scorpionfish. I got my way and everyone wrote an article on things w/ stings. Hope it helps http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/ frank __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

11/09/2002, 05:29 PM	#4
Mad Scientist Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass Posts: 2,776	Frank, Excellent article! Great pics too. That yellow fuzzy is unreal. It sure would be nice to have a quality lionfish book out there..... __________________ "Failing to plan is planning to fail." DIVE SAFE Current Tank Info: Starting over

11/20/2002, 10:04 PM	#7
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	david: thanks for the kind words. To get those marine minnows and marine grass shrimp, you drive to Galveston w/ a net. I am not aware of any place which sells then at a reasonable cost. I stumbled axcross a place a while back thats sold marine grass shrimp and minnows but wanted like $70 or 80 buck for 100. You can search the web... I know not a good solution frank __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

02/23/2003, 01:10 PM	#11
LionFish_au Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Brisbane qld Posts: 3	Great article. Are lionfish good to start with as i'm new to sw, I have 2 tanks here with nothing in them, And i am looking at starting a sw tank. Last edited by LionFish_au; 02/23/2003 at 01:40 PM.

05/20/2003, 07:53 PM	#13
haggplumb Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 231	Frank's article Hey guys, I also found Frank's article very informative... and GREAT pictures as well. I am new to the hobby and the first fish in my 75gal FOWLR were two dwarf zebra lions. One doing excellent and one not accepting live ghost shrimp... I even dropped one with a wooden scewer right in front of him... nothing. I was wondering about the need to wean these fish from live food... is it a health thing or is it a matter of availablity? I live in Tampa Bay and every LFS I go to has ghost shrimp for $1 per dozen. One place gave me about 20 the other day for $1! Anyway it's sure is nice to have an expert among us. Write that book Frank! Thanks, haggplumb

11/06/2002, 01:54 AM	#2
RichSea7 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 64	Great Article Frank ! Your article on Lionfish is one of the best I've ever read. It certainly answered a number of specificl questions I've had about various Lionfish species. (And all in one place too ! ) Ever consider writing an entire book on the topic ? With your experience (and maybe a little extra research along with a few more pictures ) you could easily expand the material to fill at least 200 - 300 pages. Lionfish are one of the most interesting of all fish, and I don't know of any current or recent book that is devoted soley to Lionfish. The article answered many questions, but also raised many more. A full book on the topic by yourself could become a "classic" in the field of intelligent books for SW aquarists. So how could you answer all the questions that beginning through advanced aquarists might have re: Lionfish ? Maybe expanding the section on potiential tank mates for Lions - by Lion species ? Obviously a Fuzzy Dwarf Lion would probably have a greater choice of tankmates than would P. Volitians. An expanded section with pictures of males vs. females in the species where gender can be identified. Perhaps a section on the natural environs of different Lion species in the wild with diving pictures of them in the proper reef zone and with the natural flora/fauna that they seek as camoflage in the wild ? Maybe a section on aquascaping for Lionfish ? Biotope Tanks where Lionfish are the "key" species that the tank is built around ? What about Reef Tanks for Lionfish ( Stressing hard and soft corals that specific Lionfish species are found with in the wild ) Vs. Reef Tanks with Lionfish. Sorry, I just got carried away ! All I can say is that if you ever write and publish such a book, I'll be one of the first to buy it. Sincerely, Rich

11/06/2002, 06:13 PM	#3
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	Hey frank, guys. Well I just wanna puts my hands together for frank, great reading, no waffle, totally informative, and realistic. Also, not paddled out with the usual tripe that authors try to fill ion articles with.... i.e. rambling on more about systems and filters than the thing we wanna read about....the fish. cheers, Matt PS. Be posting a volitans q in a minute ;-)

11/09/2002, 08:41 PM	#5
M.Dandaneau Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 1477 S. Prescott Ave., Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 443-6459 Posts: 3,258	Very well done sir...my hat's off to you. Actually there is a very good book out with extensive information about each lionfish species, with both wild and captive information. "Reef Fishes" volume 1 by Scott W. Michael Also contains the best species by species info I've yet found on scorpians and moreys. A bit pricey, and I'm still waiting for volume 2, but very good.

11/20/2002, 07:09 PM	#6
Rollingman Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 20	Thanks Frank, great article. Could you tell me where i can get grass shrimp (harvested from saltwater), fiddler crabs, small shrimp or saltwater harvested minnows .i'm sure nobody sells them in san antonio. thanks again david

11/27/2002, 11:19 AM	#8
qwuintus Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pasadena Posts: 1,908	Cool article. Those fish look pretty wicked. Too bad they can only be kept with a few fish, but i think the lionfish would look good with it.

12/21/2002, 03:32 PM	#9
Grouperhead Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Shakedown Street, Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 1,477	Very nice Frank. Bo

01/12/2003, 05:52 AM	#10
mattsilvester Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 3,375	been here for a while now this post.......... every time I see it I think of my poor lion that I returned to the LFS - I'd nearly buy him back off him - he's getting quite big, and no one is guying him - dunno why he is a lovely specimen. regards, Matt

03/31/2003, 09:40 AM	#12
Russel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Redwood Falls, MN Posts: 237	I think that russells lionfish are one of the best starter sw fishes. They are very hardy, mine is extreamly friendly and of course the russells do not get to be as large as the volitans. The only two problems that i see with them is with weening them off feeder fish and the fact that they are venimous. Though, most people brush off the venimous part "i'll be extreamly cautious" I have often times found my hand less then an inch from the pectoral fin. Lionfish (in my opinion) are one of the best sw fish available.

05/21/2003, 07:55 AM	#14
M.Dandaneau Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 1477 S. Prescott Ave., Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 443-6459 Posts: 3,258	Whoah.....ANOTHER Tampa Bay resident! Welcome! The shrimp available in most local pet shops are fresh/brackish water, which brings up some issues as to completeness of nutrition, whereas local grass flats team with both ghost shrimp and mollies that are 100% marine and serve admirably for complete nutrition. As an added plus, marine ghost shrimp that are kept in with the lions 24/7 are also the best hair algae removers/scavenggers that can be found anywhere, keeping your tank always looking as if the LR has been freshly scrubbed (they ignore soft corals and macroalgaes though, making them close to perfect) I THINK the training to frozen food issue is inteended for the vast majority of the people not lucky enough to live by the sea.

05/21/2003, 10:22 AM	#15
haggplumb Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 231	Thanks again Hey, Thanks again for the reply... I just finished replying to your replay on another thread. I figured it was a logistics thing. Thanks again... again, haggplumb

05/27/2003, 01:10 PM	#16
FMarini 10 & Over Club Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 5,260	Hag: I think both You and Mike have hit it on the head. There are many landlocked fish owners (myself included0 and the logistic/convience factors force us to use frozen marine foods. Would i like to catch daily shrimp and mollies for my critters, YUP. But until I move w/in 5 min of an ocean or tidal flat, I'll be weening piscavores onto frozen fair. Thats said I also thingk the live foods are prolly the better way to go, as its unclear what freezing does to micronutrients and I also have no idea how and what the frozen foods were fed before they were sac'd and frozen. Glad you like the article, I'll let Mike start writing the book and i'll jump in frank __________________ Fish die belly-up and float to the surface: its their way of falling- Andre Gide

05/27/2003, 02:42 PM	#17
haggplumb Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 231	Thanks Hey Frank, Thanks for the input... I suspected something along those lines. Don't feel too bad about not living in the beautiful Tampa Bay area... it's already about 300*F outside.LOL Thanks, haggplumb

05/27/2003, 06:56 PM	#18
M.Dandaneau Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 1477 S. Prescott Ave., Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 443-6459 Posts: 3,258	Hey Frank........not even TRYING to write the book, but if I can persevere enough to be able to contribute even occassionally with a helpful prologue to articles like your own, I'll be 300% satisfied. At present, my cockiness has caught up with me in a major way and I'm battling a major infection that has attacked my lions, and honestly, with dubious success. Having gotten overconfident, I was given a FuManchu lion (from a local LFS that wasn't having any success treating it) with what appeared to be an injury, possibly a puncture by another lion. In reality, it's either a bacterial or virul infection that ends up very much like the flesh eating bacteria from Hell, and to make it worse, it seems to specifically target lions far worse than any other species.

06/04/2003, 06:56 AM	#19
know-it-all Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: in my now frozen chair (aka Wisconsin) Posts: 1,488	great article It answered almost all my questions Only question left is how bad do the stings hurt __________________ current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump

06/04/2003, 01:21 PM	#20
M.Dandaneau Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 1477 S. Prescott Ave., Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 443-6459 Posts: 3,258	REALLY bad! grin

07/02/2003, 04:29 PM	#21
kai Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: HB, Ca. Posts: 18	As for a Volitian Lions sting, it just makes your finger go numb for about a half an hour. Hurts a little but not too bad. It's similar to when you sit on the toliet reading an article for too long and when you get up your leg hurts. You can still use your finger. Never got up to my wrist or I might have headed to the doc's.

07/02/2003, 04:36 PM	#22
kai Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: HB, Ca. Posts: 18	As for a Volitian Lions sting, it just makes your finger go numb for about a half an hour. Hurts a little but not too bad. It's similar to when you sit on the toliet reading an article for too long and when you get up your leg hurts. You can still use your finger. Never got up to my wrist or I might have headed to the doc's.

09/13/2003, 06:14 PM	#23
MBvash Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 119	"Talk about a rare lionfish... this is the Ambon lionfish, a furry lion which utilizes its "fur' to hide amongst the plant life. Fortunately, this rare lion never makes it into the hobby." http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...CatId=280&cc=1 =(

09/14/2003, 12:56 PM	#24
M.Dandaneau Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 1477 S. Prescott Ave., Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 443-6459 Posts: 3,258	They actually DO make it into the aquarium trade, but as you can see, always at a high price. The colored forms (red, yellow, purple) often run twice this much, and even at this price are eagerly sought.

09/15/2003, 09:22 PM	#25
ignite1402 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 109	haha the sting do hurt alot man!!! it's almost like a bee sting to me!