Salt Mixes--is it Ford or Chevy?

[FireViper]

After reading a ton of posts, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on which sea salt mix is better to use. Personal opinions and preferences abound, kinda like which truck is better: Ford or Chevy

Here's a recap looking at the two main brands:

Instant Ocean Salt is cheaper and seems to work just fine, though you may have to dose Mg to obtain elevated levels that corals seem to like.
Instant Ocean Reef Crystal mix has added elements you may or may not need and could lead to excesses in the tank. Sometimes leaves a build up of gunk in the mixing bucket/barrel.
Red Sea Salt is 30% more expensive and seems to have higher Ca, Mg, and dKH than Instant Ocean.
Red Sea Coral Pro has even higher concentrations of Ca, Mg, and dKH, to the point that the dKH may be almost too high, around 12.

Probably way too simplified, but are these fair assessments and did I miss anything important?

For a 55 gallon mixed reef tank with fish, I'm leaning towards using the either the IO or RS base salt, as I don't think I can go wrong either way. We've been using natural sea water from the Pacific and it's been strongly suggested that we switch to RODI plus salt. A distant fish store where I happened to stop, sold Red Sea Pro pre-mixed. I picked up 10 gallons and plan to use it to help get our numbers up a little (Ca 400, Mg, 1200, dKh 8), then going to our own mix. Any benefits to staying brand consistent with Red Sea?

Thanks!

[billdogg]

I've used pretty much every salt on the market at one time or another over the years. I use IO or (mostly) RC due mainly to the price and availability. I also dose Ca and Alk daily using BRS dosing pumps, Mg on a as-needed basis. If things start to trend upwards, I'll go with a round or two of IO until they get back to where I need them to be. I really don't see the point to spending more than needed on salt - you're going to end up dosing eventually regardless as your stony corals grow, and bulk supplements (yes, from BRS) are reasonably priced and easy to use.

And for this family, right now it's Nissan and Subaru!

hth!

[dkeller_nc]

You might want to watch this video. At least from the standpoint of their tests, the $$/gal that you'd calculate based on the box numbers may be fantasy.

[FireViper]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

You might want to watch this video. At least from the standpoint of their tests, the $$/gal that you'd calculate based on the box numbers may be fantasy.

Good info. Thanks! So with the exception of the basic IO, they're all about the same in cost.

So I guess in comes down to preference and whether the extra minerals are necessary. Decisions, decisions.

[FireViper]

Thoughts on the Tropic Marin Regular and Pro? Is that the GMC of salt?

[Kriegad]

One thing BRS didn’t consider is you can get the IO cheaper if you get it in the box instead of a bucket, making it even cheaper still. Big selling pt for tropic marine is its not suppose to leave as much residue behind so doesn’t gunk up your mixing tank as much over time.

[mcgyvr]

There is little to no proof any salt mix is better than the next...so pick whats cost effective and readily available to you...

[HumbleFish]

Instant Ocean is probably the most reliable and cost effective option. It's weakness is low calcium (if you're running a reef) - but that can be remedied by adding calcium chloride to it before doing a WC.

[scattered]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

There is little to no proof any salt mix is better than the next...so pick whats cost effective and readily available to you...

Proof neither empiric nor anecdotal.

New comers to the hobby would do well to use LFS supplied water for some time.

[FireViper]

Originally Posted by scattered

Proof neither empiric nor anecdotal.

New comers to the hobby would do well to use LFS supplied water for some time.

Therein lies the problem. Apparently, the water at both nearby stores are filtered sea water. Seemed reasonable to me, but the folks here recommended against that, as it can be quite variable and can potentially contain some bad stuff.

FWIW, our tank is doing fine, though the Mg and Calcium are a bit low. . . .

[dkeller_nc]

I'd strongly disagree with the advice that newbs should use LFS-prepared water. There's just too much variability in the quality of LFS in general and the quality of the water that they produce specifically.

The bottom line, however, is that the chosen salt mix doesn't make or break a reef tank. There are lots of very successful tanks that use IO, and lots of successful tanks that use HW Weigandt (my particular preference), Red Sea, Tropic Marin, etc...

Instead, reefers usually choose their salt based on more esoteric factors. I used to use IO, but the alkalinity was too inconsistent, and I have SPS tanks that require stability. I got tired of having to test every new batch of saltwater and adjust the alkalinity and calcium, and I also got tired of the excess precipitate of (probably) sulfates and the frequent cleaning out of the mix tank that required. That said, though, I used IO successfully for many years, so for folks where saving a few bucks is important, it's probably the most appropriate choice.

The main things about making saltwater is to a) have a good RODI unit that's well maintained, equipped with a TDS meter so that you can confirm that it's producing high quality water b) a refractometer made for seawater that you know how to accurately calibrate and read. It's for this reason that I generally recommend the Milwaukee digital refractometer, since there's no guessing about correct reading, c) having a good setup that allows you to make the water, leave it circulating for a few hours to ensure complete dissolution and heating, and d) if you have SPS or are contemplating a large water change, the ability to measure and adjust the water parameters.

Note - you mentioned low magnesium and calcium. Along with alkalinity, these are the "big three" that must be dosed to maintain stability. Magnesium may not require dosing if the tank gets frequent water changes since it's consumed at a much lower rate than Ca and Alk. Dosing can take the form of manual addition of properly made Ca and Alk solutions. That's the cheapest option, but it does tend to require more testing to ensure stable parameters.

So most reefers eventually go to an automatic dosing system like the Neptune D.O.S. for stability and ease-of-use, but it's certainly not required in the beginning.

[scattered]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

I'd strongly disagree with the advice that newbs should use LFS-prepared water. There's just too much variability in the quality of LFS in general and the quality of the water that they produce specifically.

My primary reason for that recommendation is the initial lack of RO/DI for a new reefer. That is a real problem for a lot of new reef keepers 6-12 months in. Starting with bad water is a really hard problem to overcome. The flip-side is the variance in quality of water LFS which (in my experience) even in the worst of circumstances is lightyears better than the aquarist new to reef keeping.

:shrug: I bought my pump for water mixing today as I'm finally ready to start making RO/DI on the regular. I'll make my own from now own but I'm grateful I was able to get the ~20G I needed to start from my LFS. They are using IO Reef Crystals and salinity tested solid on every jug at 1.026. The same SG can be said of any livestock I've purchased.

[Green Chromis]

Originally Posted by FireViper

After reading a ton of posts, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on which sea salt mix is better to use. Personal opinions and preferences abound, kinda like which truck is better: Ford or Chevy

Here's a recap looking at the two main brands:

Instant Ocean Salt is cheaper and seems to work just fine, though you may have to dose Mg to obtain elevated levels that corals seem to like.
Instant Ocean Reef Crystal mix has added elements you may or may not need and could lead to excesses in the tank. Sometimes leaves a build up of gunk in the mixing bucket/barrel.
Red Sea Salt is 30% more expensive and seems to have higher Ca, Mg, and dKH than Instant Ocean.
Red Sea Coral Pro has even higher concentrations of Ca, Mg, and dKH, to the point that the dKH may be almost too high, around 12.

Probably way too simplified, but are these fair assessments and did I miss anything important?

For a 55 gallon mixed reef tank with fish, I'm leaning towards using the either the IO or RS base salt, as I don't think I can go wrong either way. We've been using natural sea water from the Pacific and it's been strongly suggested that we switch to RODI plus salt. A distant fish store where I happened to stop, sold Red Sea Pro pre-mixed. I picked up 10 gallons and plan to use it to help get our numbers up a little (Ca 400, Mg, 1200, dKh 8), then going to our own mix. Any benefits to staying brand consistent with Red Sea?

Thanks!

If you have a chance to use NSW that is clean, then keep using it, maybe the LFS is just trying to sell you the salt, as the LFS will not make a dime if you use NSW. I have been using NSW for every system I have ever set up, and never had a problem with it. After all this is where 99% of our Fish and Corals come from.

[hottuna]

BRS uses TM pro-reef...fwiw

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by scattered

My primary reason for that recommendation is the initial lack of RO/DI for a new reefer. That is a real problem for a lot of new reef keepers 6-12 months in. Starting with bad water is a really hard problem to overcome. The flip-side is the variance in quality of water LFS which (in my experience) even in the worst of circumstances is lightyears better than the aquarist new to reef keeping.

I generally agree with you - poor quality water isn't appropriate for a reef, which is why I generally tell people not to start the hobby until they're prepared to buy a water purification system. That used to be pretty unrealistic, but a basic system is now so inexpensive it's hard not to recommend this route.

And, rather unfortunately, we have a particular LFS around here that doesn't do the required maintenance on their systems, so their water is a bit worse than using tap water, since it contains all of the ammonia and chlorine that tap water does, and newbs actually think it's purified. They'd be much better off buying distilled water from the grocery store.

[FireViper]

Originally Posted by Green Chromis

If you have a chance to use NSW that is clean, then keep using it, maybe the LFS is just trying to sell you the salt, as the LFS will not make a dime if you use NSW. I have been using NSW for every system I have ever set up, and never had a problem with it. After all this is where 99% of our Fish and Corals come from.

Actually, it was some of the folks here that were recommending not using NSW due to the lack of consistency and concern of pollutants. . . .

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by FireViper

Actually, it was some of the folks here that were recommending not using NSW due to the lack of consistency and concern of pollutants. . . .

Thats all about the source... Collect it at the shore and who knows what you are getting... Collect a few miles out and it should be very good.

[scattered]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

I generally agree with you - poor quality water isn't appropriate for a reef, which is why I generally tell people not to start the hobby until they're prepared to buy a water purification system. That used to be pretty unrealistic, but a basic system is now so inexpensive it's hard not to recommend this route.

And, rather unfortunately, we have a particular LFS around here that doesn't do the required maintenance on their systems, so their water is a bit worse than using tap water, since it contains all of the ammonia and chlorine that tap water does, and newbs actually think it's purified. They'd be much better off buying distilled water from the grocery store.

Distilled from the store is not a bad option. Not the auto fill stations but bottled water. It regularly tests at 0-1 TDS on my meter. My tap is not drinkable and I use bottled to brush my teeth. I end up using a lot of RODI.

The regular new reef keeper is often intimidated by the money and water is a common place to cut corners.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by scattered

Distilled from the store is not a bad option. Not the auto fill stations but bottled water. It regularly tests at 0-1 TDS on my meter. My tap is not drinkable and I use bottled to brush my teeth. I end up using a lot of RODI.

The regular new reef keeper is often intimidated by the money and water is a common place to cut corners.

Yep, and they will pay a heavy price for cutting that corner. I find that a bit odd, though, since a basic RO/DI is $90.

[FireViper]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

Yep, and they will pay a heavy price for cutting that corner. I find that a bit odd, though, since a basic RO/DI is $90.

Only $90. Where can I find one that cheap? I sent our tap water parameters to the folks at BRS, and they recommended a 5 stage set up at around $300 (with the gauges). Our tap has chloromines so the micro carbon filters are apparently necessary.

[dkeller_nc]

Aquatic Life RO Buddy. Like everything else, it's a get what you pay for sort of thing, and with chloramines the carbon cartridge might not last as long as you want.

I cannot comment on the cost of replacement cartridges, either. It may be a thing like printer ink - you can buy the printer for next to nothing, it's the ink that will cost you.

But if you have a small tank, I'd personally say that getting the AL 4-stage RO buddy beats the stuffing out of hauling buckets back and forth to the LFS, and possibly taking a chance on whether they maintain their system or not. And the gas and time to go to the LFS is, of course, not free.

And, btw, the 5-stage BRS systems aren't that much - they're $200. That's without a TDS meter, which is something I'd recommend, but if you're cash constrained, it's possible to just monitor the resin - when about half of the canister changes color, change it.

Full disclosure - I use the BRS system (custom configured), but I also make a fair bit of RODI water, and take extra steps to ensure that there's nothing (and absolutely nothing) in the water. But that's a bit of overkill; I'm a chemical engineer, so purifying water is a "thing" with me.

[lpsouth1978]

I use RO water for everything in my life. The water where I'm at is GARBAGE, so we have to have RO units in the home just for drinking and cooking. I recently picked up a 400GPD light commercial RO system, with a 20g storage tank, and added the BRS dual canister DI to it. I currently only have a 40g reef, but I LOVE that I can have almost 15g of 0TDS water virtually on demand. I feel like this was the best $600 I have spent on my "Oceanic" hobby.

I was one of those that learned the hard way that not starting with the best water possible, will only lead to problems later. Can it be done without an RO? Sure, but it is SOOOO much easier with one.