No sand or sand bed

[paulojbsilva]

Hi all.
I have a 150 liters tank setup and I have been trying to get it stable for the last year, with no success. I believe it's due to the poor quality of the rock I started with. I had about 20 kgs and about 6 kgs of fine sand. I cannot get rid of green algae although nitrates and phosphates are low (probably due to the algae). Yesterday I went crazy and took 90% of the rock to a plastic container on my tool shed and let it there with salt water and a power head. Hope to let the rock cure for a couple of months. The tank now just has sand and two small rocks. The inhabitants are 2 clowns and a blue damsel, 1 lysmata, 2 ceryth and a strombus. On the sump I have 3 hermit munching some leftovers of chaeto.
Can someone throw some ideas? I can't seem to get somewhere with this tank.


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[HaKs310]

Paulo, what's the history of the rock you used? What do your parameters look like? What does your feeding routine look like?

[paulojbsilva]

Well, part of rock I got came from a guy who was selling his setup, and other part from local fish store. Thought I was doing a good choice. I put it in the tank and until now I only have a xenya that was stuck on live rock. As for the parameters, phosphates reads 0 on Salifert test, and nitrates around 2...I believe that now I've removed lots of the rock and the green algae that was on it, those values will rise. I'll make some tests tomorrow and probably a wc after.
About the feeding, I give about a quarter of a cube of frozen shrimp/mysis mix, rinsed with water.
I forgot to mention I'm running a Chinese LED (that I believe is ok) for 6 hours and I have a tunze skimmer running 24/7.



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[bean2986]

Have you tried running GFO?

[paulojbsilva]

I've ordered a mesh bag and hope starting GFO this week, but I've been trying to go the more natural way possible. Do you guys think I can run GFO only on a mesh bag or I really need a reactor? Maybe I should add some active carbon too?


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[paulojbsilva]

Ok, routines updated. Cleaning filter sock every 2 days and getting a uv filter today. Changing 10% water volume twice a week. Let's see


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[paulojbsilva]

Got my uv filter! Hope it's not overkill, since my tank has around 150 liters with a 30 liter sump and I got the TMC Vecton 600...I'm putting it in tomorrow. Let's see. Should I expect a decrease in the algae situation? Should I keep it on 24/7 at this time, since I have this algae outbreak?


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[garethwood]

i hate to say it but removing your rock all at once is going to cause more harm than good. i appreciate what your trying to do by running a natural system, i also opted out of the tech side of reefing : ) but by doing that your rellying on the rock to be your filter which youve now removed! personally i would of left the rock in.. increased your w/c routine and added the carbon and some rowaphos to your sump. at this stage your now holding out that your sand bed is going to do all your filteting which im afraid it wont! personally ide scrub what growth you have on your rocks and return them to your DT. your bioload from what youve said you feed is on the low side so your rock should cope well with it. have you tried something like an algae scrubber or cheato in your sump to help with nutrients? some pictures of your setup would help people advice you further, but in my mind youve gone the wrong way so far sorry to say. Good luck : )

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[paulojbsilva]

Thanks garethwood. I'm starting to think I have to go as you said. I didn't dried the rock. It's still alive, and probably better than it was, since I gently scrubbed the algae, hopping to maintain the life in it. It's in the same water parameters that in the dt tank (roughly). I just wasn't thinking on adding it now to the dt, was thinking on curing it. But maybe you're right. I'll get the phosban or something like that and the carbon. And as soon as I get those, I'll put the rock back. I'm afraid that if I put it back now, the algae will win the battle again.
So, rowaphos or phosban? What the favorite out there?
And another thing. I have really small grain sand bed and rely on one strombus and two ceryth to take care of it. That takes me to two questions. Should I vacuum the sand bed or leave it as it is so the anaerobic bacteria don't be dislocated? Should I change it to another type of grain that don't get so compacted?


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[garethwood]

rowaphos is the best by far but is more costly, you can just put it in flow in your sump in a bag and change it monthly.
as for the sand most people recommend stiring and syphoning a small area each w/c and do it in sections as to not disturb the bacteria balance

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[homer1475]

Save yourself some money and just buy bulk GFO from BRS. At the amount your going to change, you'll appreciate the lower cost. Then once you have things cleaned up, maybe run the rowaphos.

I've run them all trying to clean up my algae mess. They all absorb(last) in my tank about the same amount of time, but I found the bulk from BRS to be the cheapest.

[paulojbsilva]

Originally Posted by garethwood

rowaphos is the best by far but is more costly, you can just put it in flow in your sump in a bag and change it monthly.
as for the sand most people recommend stiring and syphoning a small area each w/c and do it in sections as to not disturb the bacteria balance

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Can I run carbon the same way too? Run them both?
Tomorrow is WC day. Will do some siphoning.


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[paulojbsilva]

Originally Posted by homer1475

Save yourself some money and just buy bulk GFO from BRS. At the amount your going to change, you'll appreciate the lower cost. Then once you have things cleaned up, maybe run the rowaphos.

I've run them all trying to clean up my algae mess. They all absorb(last) in my tank about the same amount of time, but I found the bulk from BRS to be the cheapest.

Well I bet it would be a good bet, but I don't have access to BRS material here in Portugal. Only thing from BRS is the YouTube videos eheheh


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[Brock0019]

Originally Posted by paulojbsilva

Can I run carbon the same way too? Run them both?
Tomorrow is WC day. Will do some siphoning.


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You can def run both. Some people even mix them i the same reactor.

[paulojbsilva]

Originally Posted by Brock0019

You can def run both. Some people even mix them i the same reactor.

Mixing them isn't risky? They could be depleted in different times... anyway, GFO e carbon will be.


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[TYC]

Originally Posted by paulojbsilva

I've ordered a mesh bag and hope starting GFO this week, but I've been trying to go the more natural way possible. Do you guys think I can run GFO only on a mesh bag or I really need a reactor? Maybe I should add some active carbon too?


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I 2nd Garethwood. I got rid of green hair algae from rocks by keeping lights off for a week, could've been also all the CUC n Tang that also cleaned rocks during lights out. If its GHA, please read Meleev's article & watch his video for some good info on how to get rid of it. http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

[paulojbsilva]

Well, I intended that when I put the rocks on the plastic container in the dark. They are almost clean...maybe next week they're back in the dt.
Will dive into the article you suggested. Thank you very much.

Just finished a 15% WC. Uv is hopefully burning the floating algae spores. I tried to scrape as much as I could. It was a real mess. Tomorrow I'll clean the filter sock as it probably will be full of algae. I've ordered carbon and GFO.
If all this will be insufficient...I'll be totally lost here.


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[paulojbsilva]

Well, it seem I'm not that off Melev's method. I'm just 2 weeks away from the 1 month in a dark container and the amount of snail eheh
Maybe tomorrow I'll get a few


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[TYC]

Originally Posted by paulojbsilva

Well, I intended that when I put the rocks on the plastic container in the dark. They are almost clean...maybe next week they're back in the dt.
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good to hear

[paulojbsilva]

Ok...I'm a bit lost.
Today I did some tests. My phosphates are barely untraceable, but my nitrates are around 35ppm.
Could this be the algae dying in the uv filter that are rotting and producing the nitrates? I'll do another wc tomorrow.
At least seem the algae are not getting widespread. And I got two hermit crabs I had banned to the sump because they killed some turbos, back in the dt munching like crazy.
But what really messed my mind was the nitrates high and phosphate low. I thought they were supposed to be more like the same.


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[TYC]

Originally Posted by paulojbsilva

Ok...But what really messed my mind was the nitrates high and phosphate low. I thought they were supposed to be more like the same.
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They can measure different levels bc source can be different. Phosphate can come from using unfiltered tap water, KH buffers, activated carbon and some say from flake foods. Are you using RODI water?

Whereas Nitrate is byproduct of fish waste and uneaten excess food, its the final byproduct of the nitrogen cycle...so basically Nitrate is mostly from organic waste. If u overfeed and too often, u can/will have high nitrate. How often do u feed and are the fish eating everything in few mins?

[TYC]

An experienced hobbiest, soulpatch, recommended keeping nitrate levels near 0 for one year in order to control algae and prevent algae from establishing in my tank.

[paulojbsilva]

Originally Posted by TYC

They can measure different levels bc source can be different. Phosphate can come from using unfiltered tap water, KH buffers, activated carbon and some say from flake foods. Are you using RODI water?



Whereas Nitrate is byproduct of fish waste and uneaten excess food, its the final byproduct of the nitrogen cycle...so basically Nitrate is mostly from organic waste. If u overfeed and too often, u can/will have high nitrate. How often do u feed and are the fish eating everything in few mins?

Well, from all of the above, I just use some pellets. But I surely don't overfeed. But I only use pellets one or two times a week. Otherwise I use frozen food rinsed in water. I have a RoDi and use it with Red Sea Pro salt. I do not have any chemical filtration. My filtration is relying on my skimmer, filter sock cleaned every 3 or 4 days and a uv filter. Nothing added besides what comes in the salt.

I was really aiming on zero nitrates and phosphates for quite a while. To get a good established tank. Not succeeding though...


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[TYC]

Having some nitrate is ok, just not anything over 30ppm unless u start vodka dosing (which is recommended for advanced hobbiests, which I'm not) don't think ur gonna get zero nitrate. If u'r interested to learn about it, Meleev explains how it works. He couldn't get 0 nitrate until he started Vodka dosing, until then he always had 25-30 Nitrate.

the only thing that ever ate GHA for me was a yellow tang, no snails. Others have said emerald crab is good for GHA.

Dont get so caught up on the #'s (0 nitrate), if ur tank inhabitants are healthy and growing and ur water parameters are stable it should be fine.

[paulojbsilva]

Well I wouldn't be so concerned if everything was ok, it's just that the fish and hermits are fine, but beside a xenya that was a hitchhiker on a rock, I can't have any more corals.


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