Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Responsible Reefkeeping
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 03/02/2012, 07:01 AM   #26
alton
Registered Member
 
alton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zuehl, Texas
Posts: 4,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpjaws74 View Post
almost feel sorry for the poor basterds...
Really? They don't run from you, they are killing off our reef fish, they taste good, seems like everyone is killing them and yet we cannot control there numbers? Sounds like a creature from hell!


alton is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/02/2012, 08:29 AM   #27
KafudaFish
Cyprinius carpio
 
KafudaFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,496
In addition to habitat alteration and destruction invasive species have a huge impact to our biological communities.

I can go in my back yard and find 4 highly invasive species: chinese privet, tree of heaven, multiflora rose, and mimosa (5 if you want to include my grass) right now. I also have English ivy that climbs up my trees and every spring bartlett pear trees bloom, everyone thinks how beautiful they are, and the first hard storm they splinter. They were suppose to be sterile but if you go into the mountain and see white that would be either a dogwood or a pear tree.

Usually if something has fur and a cute face we feel bad about killing them. For lionfish we feel bad because they are beautiful creatures, seem harmless, and hold a value for us. On the other side no one would care if we smashed zebra mussels all day long.

It will be interesting to see if we can have any real impact to their populations but it sounds like we will be using bubble gum to stop the dam from breaking if they can be found in the sea beds, the reefs, and in deeper waters.


KafudaFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/02/2012, 10:01 AM   #28
ousnakebyte
Registered Member
 
ousnakebyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpjaws74 View Post
almost feel sorry for the poor basterds...
I think I understand where you are coming from. After all, it's not their fault they are here. We were the ones who introduced them. But, they need to go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KafudaFish View Post
It will be interesting to see if we can have any real impact to their populations but it sounds like we will be using bubble gum to stop the dam from breaking if they can be found in the sea beds, the reefs, and in deeper waters.
Agreed - great anaolgy. I try to remain optimistic, but.... it's difficult given the circumstances.

Mike


__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see - John Lennon
ousnakebyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/02/2012, 05:24 PM   #29
Zoodiver
As seen on TV
 
Zoodiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South FL
Posts: 571
Don't feel sorry for them. They're like aquatic cockroaches down here and something drastic needs to be done soon.


__________________
Real tanks require a wetsuit to clean.
Zoodiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/02/2012, 07:52 PM   #30
Dino
Freak of Nature
 
Dino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Finding my way back to the boondocks
Posts: 11,048
I know down in Australia where they have incredible problems with invasive cane toads there are businesses that go out (or offer a bounty), catch the little buggers then grind them up and make them into fertilizer.

Wonder how good of fertilizer lionfish make? (Likely too cost prohibitive though)


__________________
Cody

I will love and miss you until the last beat of my heart Harley & Rusty.
Dino is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/02/2012, 09:40 PM   #31
benjc
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 636
Don't kill the lionfish; catch them and sell them to the LFS. Seriously though, as an invasive species, eradication is the ultimate goal.


benjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 01:57 PM   #32
r-balljunkie
Registered Reefer
 
r-balljunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 2,059
i have only seen two or three diving in the south pacific. they are definitely in check, population wise in there natural location.i believe the argument is between a hobbyist releasing them, or a hurricane causing an accidental release from a commercial / larger aquarium system.


r-balljunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 02:11 PM   #33
James77
Registered Member
 
James77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 8,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by alton View Post
Really? They don't run from you, they are killing off our reef fish, they taste good, seems like everyone is killing them and yet we cannot control there numbers? Sounds like a creature from hell!
...or the solution to our upcoming food crisis


__________________
Jim

Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater
James77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 02:17 PM   #34
dnreef
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: port jefferson, ny
Posts: 73
Can't seem to find a link to the video but Dan Rather had a nice episode on this issue on HdNet last year. This link should take you to the article.

http://www.hd.net/press_articles/hdn...-of-our-ocean/


__________________
David

Current tank: 75 gallon mixed reef + 40 gallon sump ~ 90 gallon volume
dnreef is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 02:43 PM   #35
DanK13
Registered Member
 
DanK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MA
Posts: 153
Diving in Guam on more than one occasion i was completely surrounded by them. Kinda wigged me out since i couldn't see past them at all and it was dusk. I felt like Mario trying to dodge through them.

I cant really feel sorry for them though. Since they are invasive, they have no natural predators here in the atlantic. Im sure there are sharks in the pacific that keep the common lionfish in check since many sharks eat fairly noxious organisms. Not even the white sharks like them here. They have chummed with lionfish off the east coast to draw the whites in and even they don't eat them. Bluespotted cornetfish are a natural predator of the red lionfish but they aren't native to the atlantic either. Adding them to the atlantic could have a cane toad effect which we would like to avoid.

Conclusion for the atlantic ... kill em, kill em all


__________________
Never try to understand water and electricity. The more you think you know the less you do.
Sweet! I just won a bid to install a 5500gal system in paradise.

Current Tank Info: Big
DanK13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 07:44 PM   #36
yardboy
Advanced Bewilderment
 
yardboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Panama City Florida
Posts: 563
One year I saw none in the Keys, the next they were everywhere. Very invasive.
Curious thing is though, in the Philippines, where they eat pretty much anything they can catch, they don't eat lionfish. Not sure why, then I heard of some issues with ciguatera. That might be it. I never see Barracuda on the menu in the Keys, likely for the same reason.


__________________
Ya gotta be tough, if you're gonna be stupid!

Current Tank Info: 200g shallow cube, prop tank
yardboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 08:19 PM   #37
Flaring Afro
Puffer Geek
 
Flaring Afro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by alton View Post
Really? They don't run from you, they are killing off our reef fish, they taste good, seems like everyone is killing them and yet we cannot control there numbers? Sounds like a creature from hell!
That would make me feel bad. It's not that they aren't afraid to die, but that they don't know we are a threat.

As popular as lions are in the home aquarium, imo they should tend to capture them instead. It wouldn't be hard and I'd bet they could sell a live one to fish stores for a larger profit than dead to restaurants.


Flaring Afro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 08:37 PM   #38
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
 
Luiz Rocha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousnakebyte View Post
It will be interesting to see if they make it through (or around?) the discharge of the Amazon to southern Brasil.
I am sure they will make it not only to Brazil but to Africa as well, and possibly the Mediterranean, just a matter of time.


Luiz Rocha is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 09:54 PM   #39
KafudaFish
Cyprinius carpio
 
KafudaFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaring Afro View Post
That would make me feel bad. It's not that they aren't afraid to die, but that they don't know we are a threat.

As popular as lions are in the home aquarium, imo they should tend to capture them instead. It wouldn't be hard and I'd bet they could sell a live one to fish stores for a larger profit than dead to restaurants.
What do you do with the other 99.99% of the invasive population?

As you said a "live one" would be great but there aren't enough tanks for every lionfish around.

It does bring up a good point though: How many are sold per year in the trade?


KafudaFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 09:57 PM   #40
ThatAquariumKid
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 123
Unfortunately lion fish have destroyed so may ecosystems as they have limited natural predators and it sucks but they must be dealt with. Lionfish is a great fish to eat and i could see some sort of business being made off of lionfish that could give a jult to florida's economy. Lionfish are destructive but they could do us a little good.


ThatAquariumKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 10:04 PM   #41
James77
Registered Member
 
James77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 8,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaring Afro View Post
That would make me feel bad. It's not that they aren't afraid to die, but that they don't know we are a threat.

As popular as lions are in the home aquarium, imo they should tend to capture them instead. It wouldn't be hard and I'd bet they could sell a live one to fish stores for a larger profit than dead to restaurants.
Meh....considering the amount of damage they have and will do, I wouldn't feel too bad. While the aquarium trade, adn restaurants are a definitley an almost obvious solution, Im not sure there would be enough demand or if it is worth the extra effort. I'd rather that effort be put towards killing more lionfish, this way the problem might be solved. Otherwise it would be treading water and more lions would end up dying in the long run. Get it over with


__________________
Jim

Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater
James77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/03/2012, 10:07 PM   #42
James77
Registered Member
 
James77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 8,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanK13 View Post
Diving in Guam on more than one occasion i was completely surrounded by them. Kinda wigged me out since i couldn't see past them at all and it was dusk. I felt like Mario trying to dodge through them.
Like the movie "sphere" and the jellyfish.....don't know why, but that came to my mind right away......


__________________
Jim

Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater
James77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 01:31 AM   #43
AlexS95
Registered Member
 
AlexS95's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 1,065
Sorry if I missed it, but how did they get introduced to the Gulf areas from the Pacific?


AlexS95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 07:07 AM   #44
DanK13
Registered Member
 
DanK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MA
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by James77 View Post
Like the movie "sphere" and the jellyfish.....don't know why, but that came to my mind right away......
Lol. Seriously. I honestly wished at the time I had a underwater video camera. I could have submitted it to Hollywood and been a millionaire


__________________
Never try to understand water and electricity. The more you think you know the less you do.
Sweet! I just won a bid to install a 5500gal system in paradise.

Current Tank Info: Big
DanK13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 10:07 AM   #45
vijaym85
Registered Member
 
vijaym85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Queens NYC
Posts: 1,296
Maybe companies should stop importing them for a while or offer the import vs the domestic side by side and give the buyer the option to choose. Start catching and selling some of these for a cheap price, at least put them to use, seeing as most of them are going to die anyway, and let the local people make some cash off of them. I am sure this won't solve the problem, and hunting them will still be needed but if they sell them cheap vs the price of a import it would be cool for at a lucky few of them not to mention the would be buyers.


vijaym85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 10:28 AM   #46
Pallan
Registered Member
 
Pallan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brandon
Posts: 283
i think Live aquaria does offer larger atlantic ones for cheaper then their pacific cousins from time to time.. just looked and not listed now but im sure ive seen them on there


Pallan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 05:25 PM   #47
PufferPutz
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 16
I have seen a couple episodes on Food Network or The Cooking Channel. They featured how resort chefs were starting to utilize the lion fish in their menus.

People who try it really seem to like it. The shows also had the angle of the chefs helping preserve/balance the ecosystems.


PufferPutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 09:13 PM   #48
Flaring Afro
Puffer Geek
 
Flaring Afro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by KafudaFish View Post
What do you do with the other 99.99% of the invasive population?

As you said a "live one" would be great but there aren't enough tanks for every lionfish around.

It does bring up a good point though: How many are sold per year in the trade?
I didn't think there were that many (relatively speaking). I mean, I knew there were a lot but I didn't think they reproduced and spread anywhere near like the snakeheads do (or did since those are just everywhere now). I just personally feel everyone is going with the motto to kill them when I feel it should be more towards capturing with killing on the side to fill in the extra.

One thing I'd like to know is how many of the same type are still being brought to our aquarium trade from their native home. imo people should be able to know if it's from florida at the lfs and on live aquaria etc and choose to support the situation in that way.


Flaring Afro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/04/2012, 11:47 PM   #49
rpjaws74
Registered Member
 
rpjaws74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: El Paso, Texas
Posts: 1,340
maybe fish think the same about us!!! No natural predators and over fishing!


__________________
rpjaws

Current Tank Info: 500 glln system/ Reef
rpjaws74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/05/2012, 06:36 AM   #50
BryanGoodson
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpjaws74 View Post
maybe fish think the same about us!!! No natural predators and over fishing!
When's the last time a fish invented something like the computer you posted this from?


BryanGoodson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.