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Unread 07/20/2012, 01:06 PM   #26
A. Grandis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarred1 View Post
I have heard a lot of great things about the Fauna Marin foods, do you know what it is made of? It's weird that its purple. I am thinking of buying some of the Fauna Marin Zoa Acan Food, it is probably better suited for their mouths.

Recently my local fish club had a speaker from AlgaGen and he talked a lot about the different kinds of copepods and how they were the next step up from phytoplankton in the food chain. He fed a tank with a few baby lyretail anthias, the fish went NUTS for the stuff even though you couldn't see the pods from where I was standing. They were very tiny, about the size of a grain of sand. I believe if a company grew their own and froze them and sold them they would be the best food we could add to our tanks.
I've tried San Francisco Bay frozen plankton and that is a good product. It has a good concentration of lipids, protein and beta carotene in it. I didn't feed the polyps for long time with that because there was an unbalance with the nutrients and the excess algae was noticeable on the second week or so. The same happens when I feed the fishes with mysis. It's probably phosphates.

Reed Roids have plankton and probably similar quality. I've tried it and didn't see any problems with algae yet. I prefer Reef Roids.

I would think the problem is in the wet part of the product. They must add something as a preservative too.

Do you remember what AlgaGen product you fed the anthias?

Grandis.


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Unread 07/20/2012, 01:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjwBlake View Post
on occasion I have even mixed in a cube of frozen brine shrimp with the roids, i get a great reaction fromthe larger zoas and often when they open up there is a little bit sticking out of their mouths. The smaller ones dont seem to be able to handle anything larger than the powered foods.

I have some GSP that has a great reaftion to the roids. I spray some over the whole colony and watch as each individual tentacle curls and snakes around grabing bits to bring into it's mouth.

It stands to reason that even though they mostly get their food from sunlight, the fact that they do still filter feed would mean that small amounts of target feeding would only benefit them in the long run in order to assure the introduction of good nutrients from other sources.

But like Grandis said, its about the balance
The frozen adult brine shrimps have nothing but excess phosphates in the water they come in, besides their broken bodies that will expel their rich nutrient contains in the tank to "feed the skimmer". That said, the fishes will just taste their juice and eat their shells like crazy because of the taste. Of course that not 100% of the brine shrimps are broken and the fishes/zoas eat some whole shrimps, but still they have no quality nutrients in them. I would avoid feeding adult brine shrimp (frozen or not) to any organism in our aquaria in the regular basis. It's can be a great way to introduce a feeding schedule to some hard to eat fishes, but I wouldn't recommend to use it in the regular basis. Not worthy it!
Frozen mysis have less broken bodies and more nutrients to the fishes. They do add phosphates to the system as well!

I've tried Reef Roids after reading about it here in the forum and can't agree more with you guys. One of the best foods I've offered to my zoas!!!!
They do respond fast to them and really makes a difference with the growth, color and the general looking of the zoas!! Really good quality food!!

I personally look at target feeding as the main reason, besides basic equipment and maintenance, that some of my zoas have been growing and showing their colors, abilities and behaviors very close to what we see in the ocean.

Grandis.


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Unread 07/20/2012, 01:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshporksandwic View Post
Great article Grandis Thanks! I used to target feed when i first got my tank but I only had like 10 corals. And growth was awesome. I feed phyto and rotifers every few days and my fish daily but never target feed anymore, i think it would take me like 2 hrs to do so. But i will give it a try and let you guys know.
You're welcome! I'm glad you liked it!!

I've tried phytoplankton before and it didn't make much difference on my zoanthids but added lots of phosphates to the water and gave me lots of headaches with the algae, so I stopped.

I feed the whole tank in a week and take my time as my schedule allows. You can target feed half of the polyps one day and the other half another day in a week period. That would help. Some people target feed 1/4 of the tank 4 times a week. I enjoy feeding them and it's rewarding so I fit my schedule around it. They don't need much food anyway. Remember that they can fit only so much in their tiny guts.

Please don't forget to turn off the pumps and allow the food to be dropped o them. Spraying them will force them to react and close, not necessarily grabbing the food and swallowing it to digest.
Some polyps take a while to close with the food particles, like some smaller Zoanthus spp., but eventually they will. Make sue the fishes and shrimps aren't stilling from the polyps.
If the food has quality (taste, right size and nutrients) for them they will ingest, digest it and you'll see results soon.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Grandis.


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Unread 07/20/2012, 01:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarred1 View Post
Check this link out, shows and talks about SPS eating. They have way smaller mouths than zoas.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ankton-capture

Here is a link on how to feed corals:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ow-corals-feed

I couldn't find the original links, their site might be down. I haven't read the second link yet but I plan on doing so tonight.
I sure thanks you so much for enriching the thread!!!
I'll be taking a look for sure.

Grandis.


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Unread 07/20/2012, 01:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCHO REEF View Post
This thread died to soon.

Hey Jarred, great stuff man. Thanks for sharing that.

MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003
I think it didn't die, but was dormant for a while.
I don't know...
Maybe most people don't have time for target feeding anymore or they don't believe in it really?

Some people condemn target feeding without trying it, which is sad.
There are some tips that we need to follow and the time to spend, but results are obvious.
We are still learning about the best way and the best foods for our zoas, but can already see how important it is.

My schedule now is crazy busy, but I'll try my best to come back here and learn some more...

Thanks MUCHO!


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Unread 07/21/2012, 01:07 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarred1 View Post
Check this link out, shows and talks about SPS eating. They have way smaller mouths than zoas.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ankton-capture

Here is a link on how to feed corals:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ow-corals-feed

I couldn't find the original links, their site might be down. I haven't read the second link yet but I plan on doing so tonight.
I just have to thank you once more for the links!!!

The articles are great and I just love the videos also!!!

It confirms many of my observations with zoas in captivity and in the ocean. Also my observations while feeding the zoas in the tank, such as the 3 week+ period after first feeding to see results, zooplankton does a better job than phytoplankton, and the need of proper food particles in association with the quality of light and water. Those points (and more!!!) are exposed brilliantly in the article simply to show us how important is target feeding, light and water quality for corals in general. Those great explanations are well applicable to zoanthids' keeping, of course.

For sure would be great if everyone here would stop for a while to read those papers and begin to believe in target feeding as I and some others do.

I really appreciate your post, Jarred1!!
Great contribution to my understanding and this thread!!!
Hope to hear from many after this.
Am I the only one excited here?

Cheers,
Grandis.


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Unread 07/23/2012, 12:48 AM   #32
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So I've got so time today and decided to search some...
Found this while searching the web...

Red Sea Reef Energy.
Features:
No unnecessary or organic material is introduced in the system.
RE-A:
1. Carbs
2. Amino acids
3. Fatty acids
4. Protein flocks

RE-B:
1. Vitamins
2. Marine amino acids.
All from marine sources (RE-B).

The product seems to have all we would look for our zoas also.



They were formulated for SPS corals but I believe that zoas would take some advantage.
Please let me know if you had the chance to try them and their effects on zoas...

I like the "coral yummy" part, showing the fish food!
They should tease the fish poop too!
Both can contribute to absorption, but indirectly.

Also would be interesting to try the four coloration program products (minor and trace elements). There is a need to test the params often, as we know, and it can get kinda expensive. Not that necessary when we do our partial water changes.

Grandis.



Last edited by A. Grandis; 07/23/2012 at 12:54 AM.
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Unread 07/23/2012, 10:54 AM   #33
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I also broadcast feed my tank and the only foods I have tried are rotifeast and oyster feast but going to order rhe reef roids and maybe something else just not sure what yet. Any suggestions. I will also try to target feed each colony.


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Unread 07/23/2012, 11:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by jdraider75 View Post
I also broadcast feed my tank and the only foods I have tried are rotifeast and oyster feast but going to order rhe reef roids and maybe something else just not sure what yet. Any suggestions. I will also try to target feed each colony.
You can start with Reef Roids and have fun with it. One of the best!
If you want to get other good food you can offer them Coral Frenzy.
Some say Reef Chili is great, but I didn't try that yet.

Make sure you turn off the pumps and drop a small tiny amount of the food over the polyps. Make sure the fishes don't attack them because it must taste good!!! Fishes love it too! Try to feed them only what they consume. Once a week is more than enough. Keep skimmer and maintenance including partial water changes.
Let us know ...

Grandis.


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Unread 07/24/2012, 07:46 AM   #35
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Smile

Thank you for the great advice grandis I will order some today.


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Unread 07/24/2012, 12:59 PM   #36
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My pleasure!


Grandis.


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Unread 07/26/2012, 05:43 PM   #37
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I just had to post this cute video for us: feeding the corals!
Two of the best artificial coral foods I've tried.
I actually use much more powder of the foods when I feed my own polyps and I don't blow on them, but let the powder fall over the zoas. I never add the shrimps and I feed one type of food at a time, once a week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gm1p...hannel&list=UL

Many thanks to IridescentLily for it!
You have a nice clean set up there!

Grandis.



Last edited by A. Grandis; 07/26/2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Unread 07/27/2012, 12:57 PM   #38
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Hey Grandis thanks for posting the link to that video very helpful.


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Unread 07/27/2012, 12:58 PM   #39
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Thanks iridecentlily for making the video great info.


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Unread 07/29/2012, 12:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdraider75 View Post
Hey Grandis thanks for posting the link to that video very helpful.
You're welcome! It's a cute video.

Try to target feed with pumps off when you do it.
Some times I turn off the skimmer too.
Remember to drop the food on the polyps, not to squirt it on them.
Maybe they will take a while to grab it at the first.
And once a week is enough.
You can try to feed them at night, like some people do.
I feed my zoas with lights on.

Have fun and please let us know how that goes!!!

Grandis.


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Unread 07/30/2012, 11:02 PM   #41
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And I don't know why I didn't post this link before:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1896006

Enjoy!!

Grandis.



Last edited by A. Grandis; 07/30/2012 at 11:20 PM.
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Unread 07/31/2012, 08:28 PM   #42
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I finally got some reef roids and coral frenzy. I am using the roids first. I shut off pumps just like you said and gently pushed some over top and the all took it gonna do this once a week and will see if it helps growth and color. Thanks again grandis for all the help.


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Unread 07/31/2012, 09:26 PM   #43
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You're very welcome!
They all close with the food inside and ingest/digest the particles, as you will notice.
I'm glad you got the foods and you'll be too!!
Go slow and try to offer only what they consume.
I give you less than 2 weeks to begin to see more vibrant colors on robust polyps. They will start to reproduce and take off after a while.
They love Coral Frenzy just like Reef Roids.



I wish more people could post about their feeding experiences here.

Grandis.


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Unread 08/20/2012, 10:47 PM   #44
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Here I go again:

Another thread I started in the past:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2180156

Article posted by 650-IS350:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/cj/index.php

Thread where he posted the article:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2204557

Just to keep up with the info...

Grandis.


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Unread 10/28/2012, 04:21 AM   #45
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Coral farming: effects of light, water motion and artificial foods, by Robert Toonen:

http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...tificial_foods

Grandis.


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Unread 10/28/2012, 09:40 AM   #46
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Thank you for reviving this thread. Awesome information and observations. I will be following and I have a lot of reading in my tabs right now. Please keep it coming.


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Unread 10/28/2012, 11:57 PM   #47
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Hopefully others will post some of their observations and links here too.
Thanks for the boost, zoafarm!!

I'm getting Reef Chili sometime this week, probably by Wednesday, and will finally try that out!!

Grandis.


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Unread 10/29/2012, 07:34 PM   #48
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Ok, got through most of the reading...not all, but something struck me as I was reading.

"During sunset, the free zooplankton concentration rises quickly, as these animals migrate to the water column. This causes a rise in copepod (500-700 μm) concentration which is five times higher compared to daytime levels!"

http://www.coralscience.org/main/art...ow-corals-feed

The article goes on to mention that the enemy of hobbyist feeding live zooplankton is heavy skimming during this higher concentration of copepods...although it does reinforce the necessity of the skimmer. Have you fed live zooplankton? Currently, my skimmer is always running. I was thinking of taking it off-line for two hours at night. Do you think this would have a negative effect?

After reading this thread, I'm switching to Reef Roids for a while. I hope this thread stays alive. I've gained so much valuable information. Although everyone has different observations, they are much better than opinions.


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Unread 10/29/2012, 10:00 PM   #49
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Ok, got through most of the reading...not all, but something struck me as I was reading.

"During sunset, the free zooplankton concentration rises quickly, as these animals migrate to the water column. This causes a rise in copepod (500-700 μm) concentration which is five times higher compared to daytime levels!"

http://www.coralscience.org/main/art...ow-corals-feed

The article is talking about what happens in nature. That will depend on the place they observe and many variables, of course. That number can go up to many times higher than that. Five times is just an observation in a local where they got that result. Could be lower than 5X in some of the places where zoas are found too, of course, so...

The article goes on to mention that the enemy of hobbyist feeding live zooplankton is heavy skimming during this higher concentration of copepods...although it does reinforce the necessity of the skimmer.

If you are willing to feed live plankton with the skimmer running, yeah!! I wouldn't feed live plankton though...

Have you fed live zooplankton? Currently, my skimmer is always running. I was thinking of taking it off-line for two hours at night. Do you think this would have a negative effect?

I did in the past with collected plankton from the ocean!!! Not worthy. The reason I don't feed live plankton (yes, zooplankton is the only one I would feed, if so) is simply because we can substitute it by the available artificial cora food particles. Once the zoas are fed a high quality and right sized particle they will get what they need. Another reason is the crazy work one will have to put up with a live plankton (zooplankton) culture. Not to talk about the high nutrient level introduced in the system to be fed. No need for all that!!!

The text tell us how important food particles are for zoas thought! If they feed on plankton every day...

There is absolutely no need to stop skimming while target feeding artificial particle coral food or any live organisms to the zoas any time, if you do that correctly. Pumps need to be off while target feeding. I keep my return on and skimmer on 24/7. No problems.

Negative effects with the skimmer off for 2 hours? I don't think it would, but wouldn't do anything good either. If anything, it would stop removing organics for 2 hours. No reason at all to do that IMO. No sense. So, I wouldn't.

They are talking about trying to reproduce what nature does, just introducing the zooplankton in the system, not target feeding.


After reading this thread, I'm switching to Reef Roids for a while. I hope this thread stays alive. I've gained so much valuable information. Although everyone has different observations, they are much better than opinions.

Be careful with any food for inverts and fishes. Never overfeed them. Reef Roids is great when offered in moderated portions and in a target feeding process. Remember they can take only up to their limits. They're guts aren't that big. The result with Reef Roids is fast and even with small quantities offered to the zoas. You'll be able to tell in a week or so.
Pretty soon I'll try Reef Chili too. I've tried Coral Frenzy with very good response from the zoas and some improvement in growth/reproduction, just like Reef Roids. Moderation, remember!!

I'm glad you like the thread and hope to hear and learn from others as well!!
Cheers!!
Grandis.



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Unread 11/09/2012, 01:09 AM   #50
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Alright!
Got my ReefChili last week and tried yesterday.
Great product! Simply packed and smells wonderful!!
I like the little spoon that came with it and the option of the bottle to squirt.
There is yeast in it and I think that is what made my skimmer to go a little crazy at the beginning. There is fish fat too among other good stuff.

Target fed, as aways, with powerheads off and left the return running this time.
Offered to the polyps and had a great response from all of them. I fed the PEs and smaller ones. Even my tiny ones too. I didn't use the bottle provided. Instead, I used one of my smaller droppers to let particles fall on the polyps, like I normally do. No pressure on them.
Some of the particles are kinda large for some smaller zoas, but they did grab the smaller particles and ingested.
After turning powerheads on, the polyps that I didn't feed were grabbing particles from the water column. That never happened with other artificial coral foods I've used before. At least not so much! Nice to see all those guys grabbing the food around!

Fishes went crazy and were trying to get the food from the polyps. You know how fishes are!!!
Of course it's just too early for me to tell you how good the food will do to the polyps, but I expect the food to be one of the best, if not the very best in the market after reading the article that I've posted here initially. I'll keep feeding only Reef Chili for a month and see if it makes any difference.

If you already have any positive feedback from your polyps after using Reef Chili for couple of months or more please share here, would you please?


Keep ZOAing!!!
Grandis.


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