Bleach vs Acid

[therealfatman]

Mixing chlorine bleach and an acid causes the release of chlorine gas. That is why your chlorine disappeared. The rock can now be placed directly in the DT tank as the chlorine is gone. The acid actually removes a layer of the rock itself along with any copper or phospahe in or on that surface layer of rock rather than just removing phosphate from the surface.

[bheron]

Ah, thanks for the clarification! Yea, the acid was really fizzing and it was tough to hold the rock in there too long before the bucket overflowed with foam.

So, what about the acid effecting the PH of my DT? Is that possible?

[bertoni]

Once the rock is clean and rinsed, the acid will be gone (almost entirely) and there will be no further effect from it. Did I answer your question?

[billyWhite]

I'm with you guys - I think I actually forgot about my rocks for a few weeks. I put a lot of baking soda in my container to try to neutralize the acid, then I rinsed them off and put them in tap water with about a half bottle of Amquel Plus. I think about a few days later, I rinsed the rocks off and soaked them in tap with the other half bottle of Amquel. I probably went overboard with the dechlorinator but that's alright. For the past few weeks, they've just been chilling out in tap water waiting for me to get off my butt. I hate to admit but I'm somewhat dreading lugging all those rocks back into my tank - these things are huge! I may keep a few of the bigger ones out, we'll see. I don't have a good photo of the tank in its before-state, but once I finally get everything back in, I'll post a photo.

[therealfatman]

When acid is used in the water after chlorine has been used chlorine gas is produced so the netrualizer was just wasted if used after the ccid was added or used. The amount of gas created when adding the acid that is dependant on the amount chlorine that remained in the water. If a lot of bleach was used and the water not drained and therefore the chlorine concentration not reduced the amount of toxic gas produced can be quite large. The chlorine water should always be discarded and new water put in with the rocks before acid acid, even vinegar. Otherwise the Amquel should be used before the acid for safeties sake.

[billyWhite]

Thanks for the explanation - I must have previously misunderstood or mixed up my steps.

[MO Will]

What do people do after the LR is cleaned up with bleach and acid? Is there any role for seeding the rock with a detrivore kit to help repopulate?

Thanks

[bertoni]

There's a lot of ways of reseeding live rock. A kit of some sort might be useful, and many people choose to add some new live rock.

[bheron]

I'm about to reseed my rock with live rock now. No idea how long it might take to fully reseed? I've heard 6 months?

[bertoni]

There's no telling. It'll be doing denitrification sooner than that, and that's the critical part for most of us.

[bheron]

so I wont have to leave the older LR in there that long?

its kinda cruddy so i'd like to get it out of there as soon as possible.

[bertoni]

I'd live it in a month or so, maybe.

[MO Will]

Any recommedations on a good kit to reseed the live rock?

Thanks

Will

My rock is in acid now and will be cooking soon

[bertoni]

I've used kits from Inland Aquatics and IPSF.com and liked them. There are lots of vendors, though. If you could some some good live rock locally, that'd help, too.

[bheron]

I would think that actual live rock would be the perfect way to reseed.

[bertoni]

Live rock comes with varying amounts of actual life on it, which is one issue. The kits come with a lot of live animals and species.

[BreadmanMike]

Hey guys/gals,

I just bleached some rock and soaked it in a bottle of Prime overnight, but it still smells of bleach. Should I rinse it again and get another bottle of Prime or is letting it dry out good enough?

[rbrown0129]

Has anyone used Garf Grunge to reseed?

[BreadmanMike]

Originally posted by rbrown0129
Has anyone used Garf Grunge to reseed?

Garf isn't what they used to be. There's been a few negative threads on them in the Vendor Experience forum lately.

[rbrown0129]

Thanks...I'll check it out.

[danjo]

Just curious, could you use a saturated solution of Calcium Hydroxide, as oppose to bleach, in order to kill the pests on the live rock such as bubble algae?

[bheron]

Just a final update on this thread to post what I eventually did. I'm very happy with the outcome:

- I did this in stages so as to always keep some actual live rock in the tank for seeding purposes.

- I did it in two batches (a total of about 250 pounds).

- First, I soaked the rock in a tub of water and bleach. About a 3-1 ratio was plenty. Luckliy my local costco was selling it for 3 large bottles for like $15! I say a 3-1 ratio b/c after a few days I smelled less and less bleach and no bubbles. My 2nd batch was more bleach, like 2.5-1 and the yellowish water and smell never really left. 3-1 is enough. I let it soak for at least a week altho it didnt need that long.

- Then, I removed all the rock, swishing it as I took it out. The result was a thick layer of sediment in the bottom of the tub. I'm guessing this was just rock/calcerous material and not dead life. The bleach killed anything alive and pretty much dissolved it.

- Next, I rinsed the tub and started all over. Yep - did a 2nd round of soaking in the tub, just for kicks. No idea if it did anything or helped. Did another round of swishing as I took it out.

- Then I filled the tub with a mixture of water and acid. Used Muriatic Acid from the pool store at a 10-1 ratio. The ratio seemed good.

- With gloves and goggles on, one by one I dipped each piece of rock in the solution. A TON of fizzing and bubbles. For some reason the bubbles were a rust color. I didnt notice if the rock looked any different or cleaner but it was fun :-) Also, the main reason I did this was in an effort to remove an outer layer of phosphate that might be on the rock. The end result was a layer of crud, rust colored gook in the bottom of the bucket. So maybe it helped. Also, I think this helped to dissolve some or all of the residual from the bleach (see next step).

- After rinsing in RODI water I let the rock sit outside for a few days in the open air and sunlight. It smelled like the YMCA swimming pool. I was trying to dissolve the extra chlorine left over from the bleach. It defintely worked.

- After 3-5 days I brought the rock inside and soaked it in a tub of RODI. Wanted to see if there was any leftover chlorine from the bleach, so i bought a chlorine test kit. the test showed no chlorine.

So I was left with a nice batch of very clean, white, light rock. It was very chalky to the touch. I spent alot of time aquascaping the new rock using PVC pipe. Once ready I dumped it into the tank with the existing, dirty, live rock and let it sit for about 2 months. The goal was to "seed" the new base rock. It was bright white under the lights when I first put it in. Eventually it started to "color" up - ie: get duller, a little brown.

Once I felt the new rock was seeded, I repeated the whole process with the rest of the rock (save for about 10lbs just in case).

After aquascaping I put it in the tank and I now have a tank ful of shiny new rock :-) It was really white at first but is now starting to fade. No issues with the fish I have in the tank or with high waste levels. I'm making sure to do frequent basting of the rock to help kepe it clean.

Overall, while it took a long time I'm very happy with the approach and would recommend it to anyone.

PS - I also took some pics along the way that I'll upload in the next few days.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds good.

Thanks for posting all the details!

[holdyourlight]

I just got done with the bleach and acid

There is still a brown residue all over my rocks that comes off when i use a toothbrush

i followed the directions to a tee..soaked in bleach for 2 days and then 2 acid baths

there is no way i am doing any more acid and bleach it is a pain especially the acid, nasty stuff

should i just scrub all the rock with a brush and rinse/soak it again in rodi to get the rest of the brown crap off?

also can't believe how "weak" some of the rocks are now, some are crumbling in my hands

[bertoni]

I'd just rinse them well with tapwater.