Trouble with Tangs

[gr3]

Tangs are my favorite reef fish. I specifically bought my six foot long, 125 gallon tank, just so that I could keep some tangs. I have had a lot of problems with aggression. I had a Tomini tang kill a yellow tang. They were my only two tangs. I got traded in the Tomini! Just recently, I was able to get a powder blue and a yellow tang to live together without killing each other. It was very difficult. I got the yellow tang first, because it is supposed to be less aggressive than the powder blue. I then added a powder blue about 2 months later after a long quarantine (he got ich). The yellow tang immediately attempted to kill the powder blue, and the powder blue did not try to defend itself. It received a large cut on it's side. That is when I took it out. After it healed in the quarantine tank, I put it into a acclimation box in my tank and after a week, the yellow tang still would not stop trying to fight it through the box. I then decided to take the yellow tang out and let the powder blue establish itself in the reef tank. About three weeks later, I rearranged the rock in my tank and added the yellow tang back in the tank. It was clear the powder blue was now the dominant fish. They have been together now for a couple of weeks and they still spar occasionally, but nothing like before. I have even seen the yellow tang eating Nori alongside the blue tang; which it was unable to do for two weeks. I am planning on adding a magnificent rabbit fish and a couple more tangs to spread out the aggression as I have seen that work on YouTube videos from experienced tang keepers. Wish me luck!

[kenith]

I've found that a mirror will fix the aggression issues quickly as they seem to search out their own genus first

[gr3]

I have tried the mirror with other species. How long do you suggest leaving it up? How can you tell when it has been successful?

[scooter31707]

IME, tangs should be added at the same time, if possible. IMO, yellow tangs can be very aggressive and become jerks, especially when they are established in a tank and when you try to add other tangs. IMO, you are pushing it putting a yellow tang and a PB in a 125.

[mickey204]

Personally I would suggest removing the yellow and loving the fact you have a healthy PB as you're currently enjoying a phenomenal fish many reefers have problems keeping. You've been blessed with a healthy PB, I wouldn't risk losing it.

I agree with scooter. Personally I've seen far more viscous yellow tangs than any other type and a 125 is pushing it with 2 tangs like these.

The last thing you want to do is come home and find one or both.....*ahem*

[gr3]

I am curious as how people like Russ, the guy on American Reef Channel, has a smaller tank than mine and he has a Naso, a PB, a Pacific Blue, and five yellows in his tank for many years? The Tangs look very healthy and huge! The video is called "How I keep Many Tangs in a Relatively Small Tank" - AmericanReefChannel on YouTube.

[jda]

You are not likely feeding them enough. Tangs are quite mellow when all of their needs are met. The need enough food to grow an inch, or so, a year. Mysis, New Life Spectrum pellets should be staples in their diet.

I have kept many tangs and they all get along fine, but I feed them like I want them to outgrow a 125 in a few years.

[xanthurum]

Tangs never really get along , they tolerate each other. That is about the best way to describe what it's like to keep multiples but it's almost impossible to keep more than 1 of any species.

[gr3]

I feed my Tangs Nori twice a day, give them Mysis, Brineshrimp, and an algae based frozen food twice a day, and occasionally New Spectrum pellets. My two Tangs seem to fight more when I feed them and shortly thereafter, like they are guarding the food supply. They are both growing fast and are getting hefty/girth. They were fighting a lot again this evening, so for now, I took the yellow Tang out. It was a bear to catch him and I even knocked off a small piece of my large orange Monty and knocked an Acro frag with plug off a rock. I think I am going to watch all of Russ's videos on the American Reef Channel regarding Tangs and see if any of them mention his stocking plan and how it worked for him. He explains how to feed them (a lot of food like was mentioned to keep the aggression down), water parameters etc.; but, I did not see him explain if he added all the Tangs at once, or if not, what order they went in etc. I may try multiple Tangs again someday. Third time was not a charm for me I want to thank everyone for their advice; and, if anyone knows how Russ stocked his "How I keep Many Tangs in a Relatively Small Tank." I would love to hear about it. Happy Reef keeping.

[mattgumaer]

I have a powder blue, yellow and a kole in a 180. I added them all at once. The powder blue is dominant. There is no way I could add another tang (or anything close in appearance) now. I tried to add a copperband using an acclimation box, mirror, etc., without any success.

Matt

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by gr3

I am curious as how people like Russ, the guy on American Reef Channel, has a smaller tank than mine and he has a Naso, a PB, a Pacific Blue, and five yellows in his tank for many years? The Tangs look very healthy and huge! The video is called "How I keep Many Tangs in a Relatively Small Tank" - AmericanReefChannel on YouTube.

It looks like he is getting by for now by using a popular method for keeping Malawi cichlids. That is to pack them in so territories can't be established.

However, I wouldn't trust everything on youtube. I wouldn't necessarily trust anyone with a Naso tang in a tank smaller than your 125, since that fish gets longer than your tank is wide.

[jda]

3 Purples, PBT, Yellow, Des Sailfin, Chocolate, Black... and some more that I am forgetting. NLS 3-4 times a day with some extra that they can pick off of the bottom - ehiem auto feeder. 1 cube of mysis per day for each tang. Formula 2 pellets every once in a while. Nori a few times a week. Why do people feed tangs like they are herbivores - they are omnivores. This is a 7x2x2 tank. They hang out and school around together.

BTW - most of these fish are quite large and most were also free because they started to eat fleshy coral as they got bigger. The black and purples were all free.

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by jda

Why do people feed tangs like they are herbivores - they are omnivores.

what species do you not consider herbivorous? P. hepatus eats zooplankton and algae, and the Ctenochaetus spp are detrivores. All others are nearly strictly algae eaters in nature.

[jda]

Go take a dive in Hawaii and you can just watch those tangs pick at carcas of reef crustaceans, eat anything that happens into the water column and even some fleshy coral. They are absolutely omnivores. They need their greens, but they need their meat too. Deprive them of their meat and watch the Lateral Line and Hole in the Head come without the vitamin E that they get from their meaty diet in nature.

Besides, "nearly strictly algae eaters" does not mean herbivores - it means omnivores by definition. Cows are not nearly strictly plant eaters - they are plant eaters.

[anthonys51]

My blonde naso tang is the least aggressive in my 265. It was also the last added and smallest but my yellow and hippo seem to argue the most. My chevron swims around the rocks the most. I agree. I try to feed them 4 times a day different foods


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[BlackTip]

My Tangs and Foxface love eating meat. I add the Nori first, wait few minutes and then add other frozen food for other fishes. They leave the Nori and chase after and eat frozen food first. They know when I am about to feed, and if they see me with a cup in my had, they ignore the Nori and come to where the cup is.

[nereefpat]

Originally Posted by jda

Besides, "nearly strictly algae eaters" does not mean herbivores - it means omnivores by definition. Cows are not nearly strictly plant eaters - they are plant eaters.

Textbooks would disagree with you. Herbivores' diets are mostly made up of autotrophs. I said "nearly strictly" to include other plants, bacteria, and plankton associated with algae.

Saying that tangs are not herbivores is quite incorrect.

[Pericyte]

Originally Posted by gr3

I am curious as how people like Russ, the guy on American Reef Channel, has a smaller tank than mine and he has a Naso, a PB, a Pacific Blue, and five yellows in his tank for many years? The Tangs look very healthy and huge! The video is called "How I keep Many Tangs in a Relatively Small Tank" - AmericanReefChannel on YouTube.

I think you are fishing (haha )for an excuse to keep adding tangs to your tank because you want to hear there is a magic formula you just have not found yet.

In reality personalities of fish differ. I currently have a blonde naso tang (has gone from 3 inches to 7 inches with streamers in a year and a half), a powder blue, a pacific blue and a yellow tang in a 150. The blonde naso being the newest tang addition (the tank is about 3-4 years old). I can tell you my success probably depends on a few things, the normal: good water quality and lots of feeding. I also am a believer that shoaling fish help to calm the tank (anthias for me), and luck, my regal tang is a champion of fish. He will bolt in between anyone fighting (which I'm sure this is not always the case). The other thing is that no fish in my tank is king. The powder blue thinks he is (6 inches or so), but the smaller yellow and regal and larger blonde naso will give him reality checks when he starts being a jerk.

That being said!! All my fish will be moving to a lovely new 300 gallon, 96" width, 30" depth, 24" height, in March. My fish are cramped and aggression is slowly going up. It's crazy how fast fish grow.

If I had it to do over again I would not have added the blonde naso to my 150. Definetely one of my favorite fish, but he just needs more swimming room.

So real advice, your tank is too small to sustain four tangs long-term. In my opinion, adding multiple tangs is a bad idea. There are plenty of other fish in the sea to choose from. If and when you upgrade, choose fish that will grow to that size tank.

[jda]

This whole post is going to seem a bit doochie. While I don't specifically mean it to be that way, I also don't care if it is taken as such.

This whole "I read that tangs are herbivores" thing is dangerous to the hobby. I was around when everybody believed this, people put romaine, spinach, nori, etc. in the tanks 24x7 for the fish to graze at their will. They were all aggressive and prone to HLLE and all other kinds of diseases. Then, people started to soak their nori in fatty acids (Selcon) and vitamins (E, mostly) and tangs got a whole lot healthier - this was like 20 years ago. Tetra Doromin pellets helped a lot and were really the first dry food that had some vitamins and nutrients mixed with both meat and greens. Mysis has been a real revelation in the hobby since they can give all fish these type of nutrients. Tangs have been doing better since then when the owner has fed them right.

I am sure that there is some textbook somewhere that says something or other. In the end, this is not worth much and is dangerous to people who are reading these posts to suggest that what has made tang care better for the last 20 years is wrong mostly posted by people who probably read more about the fish than they have kept them and interested in arguing semantics rather than experience.

Aggressive tangs are either cramped or not being fed enough or the right food. Period. I don't consider a 125G tank cramped for less then four or five tangs, so look for different and more food.

[anthonys51]

Originally Posted by jda

This whole post is going to seem a bit doochie. While I don't specifically mean it to be that way, I also don't care if it is taken as such.

This whole "I read that tangs are herbivores" thing is dangerous to the hobby. I was around when everybody believed this, people put romaine, spinach, nori, etc. in the tanks 24x7 for the fish to graze at their will. They were all aggressive and prone to HLLE and all other kinds of diseases. Then, people started to soak their nori in fatty acids (Selcon) and vitamins (E, mostly) and tangs got a whole lot healthier - this was like 20 years ago. Tetra Doromin pellets helped a lot and were really the first dry food that had some vitamins and nutrients mixed with both meat and greens. Mysis has been a real revelation in the hobby since they can give all fish these type of nutrients. Tangs have been doing better since then when the owner has fed them right.

I am sure that there is some textbook somewhere that says something or other. In the end, this is not worth much and is dangerous to people who are reading these posts to suggest that what has made tang care better for the last 20 years is wrong mostly posted by people who probably read more about the fish than they have kept them and interested in arguing semantics rather than experience.

Aggressive tangs are either cramped or not being fed enough or the right food. Period. I don't consider a 125G tank cramped for less then four or five tangs, so look for different and more food.

Very well though out respond. Too many people on here give advice on what they read not on experience. Now you might be a very smart educated person but I want the person who lived it not read. No one wants the doctor who just graduated medical school operating on you. You want the doctor who performed 1000 plus times


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[Tripod1404]

As a biologist, I never liked the "omnivore" classification. It is a concept that is too loosely defined and to be honest it doesn't really classify animals based on feeding behavior. Wolfs, brown bears, humans, pigs are all classified as omnivores. Now wolfs feed mostly on other animals but also take in small amounts of plant materiel and the case for the pigs is just the opposite. For bears and humans food intake depends on the time of the year and the region. Inuit people and brown bears living in Alaska feed almost exclusively on a carnivorous diet of fish, whereas people living in India and bears living in Europe feed exclusively on plant materiel.

Furthermore,you can not make any evolutionary or behavioral grouping based on omnivorism. Brown bear is classified as an omnivore, giant panda is a herbivore and polar bear is a carnivore. All these animals are in the bear family (Ursidae) and are as closely related as any tang.

IME the term omnivore only indicates a flexibility in diet based on available resources and most fish are flexible in terms of diet. Even athias would eat nori if you cut it into small pieces and blow it with a power head.

[nereefpat]

My textbook comment was to pass on the definition of what a herbivore is, since there seems to be some confusion. I thought that would be clear. I only brought it up because I thought the comment about tangs not being herbivores is odd. You can easily find guy analysis data online. Fishbase is a good place to start.

[Tripod1404]

Originally Posted by nereefpat

My textbook comment was to pass on the definition of what a herbivore is, since there seems to be some confusion. I thought that would be clear. I only brought it up because I thought the comment about tangs not being herbivores is odd. You can easily find guy analysis data online. Fishbase is a good place to start.

Ohh no don't get me wrong, I agree with you that tang's are herbivorous. What I was trying to say was classifying tangs as omnivore don't really make any sense since that term really doesn't indicate a specific diet or even a specific set of behaviors. I dont even know any strictly herbivorous fish that would not eat anything except plant material. Manatees and certain sea turtles might fit to that definition, but they are not fish.
Most fish are flexible in terms of their diets, if they see something that they can fit in their mouths, most of the time they give it a try. So if a tang sees an amphipod on the rock it is grazing on, it would not avoid it and if it stands still it would most likely eat it. But if the amphipod run away to the underside of the rock, would it chase it? Would it try to flip the rock like a wrasse or would it try to blow water under the rock to flush it out like a trigger fish, I don't think so.

[jda]

...so if you are raising a tang in academia, on the internet, in a textbook or even in a screensaver, they are herbivorous. If you see one in the ocean or in a captive tank, they will need to eat whatever they can find and will eat whatever they can find and you need to feed them some meat with some fatty acids and vitamin E.

Again, I don't want to sound doochie, but I don't want somebody to read this and harm their tangs by just feeding it nori and other greens.

Do either of you academics have any actual experiences to offer? I am sure that people would love to hear about them.

Let me blow everybody's mind... most triggers will eat algae and nori. Boom!

[rsepiphyte]

How interesting, never thought about using mirrors.