Frogspawn and Hammer Coral Dying

[NaClH2ODave]

Both are dying, one head at a time. The hammer coral turns a brighter green, then the head falls off the skeleton, sometimes within 24 - 48 hours.

I'm already dosing the highest recommended amount of ESV calcium which is 1ml/gal/day.

Sg - 1.024
Magnesium – 1385
Calcium – 375
pH – 7.85
dKH 7.3
Nitrite - .005
Nitrate – 5.5

All other coral, especially zoas, are thriving. Any ideas?

[mcgyvr]

Its not uncommon to have problems with frog/hammer corals after them being totally fine for a while,etc...

Your levels while some are a bit low and mag a bit high shouldn't be a problem provided they are and have been kept stable..

Any signs of a brown jelly disease?

In general most of these posts are unresolved as we just don't have enough diagnostic equipment to see whats going on.. That and well corals can't send text messages..

[nereefpat]

How long have you had them?

What is your specific light fixture and tank size?

I agree with @mcgyvr in that the chemistry looks close enough. It might be worth raising s.g. to 1.026 and Ca to 400ppm. If you can't add more ELV Ca (not sure why you couldn't), then plain old CaCl works well for this. You can bolus dose 25ppm Ca no problem.

[rvareef]

post some pics of your setup and corals, how big is the tank. what are your lights? Are you just dosing calcium, or anything else?

[NaClH2ODave]

Thanks for the input so far. It's a Red Sea 105 gallon peninsula with 20 gallon sump. I'm dosing ESV magnesium, calcium and alkalinity.

This set up is about five months old, but everything came from a thriving 50 gallon aquarium where things were growing out of control.

Lights are three Radeon XR15G4 Pros set to 35% max, but have had constant connectivity problems with my Apex system.

[NaClH2ODave]

Picture is of corals about 6 weeks ago.

[jlmawp]

What is the flow like on the hammer and frogspawn?

[Uncle99]

You say your dosing all three....is that because you don't make a regular water change?
You don't appear to have enough Stoney corals to warrant dosing, unless you don't change water and that's how you intend to replenish.....the tank is quite young, water changes to replenish elements is the safest and also helps to maintain nitrate and phosphate levels.
You don't mention phosphate levels, .02-.04 is required with your 5.5 nitrate....or corals just starve

[NaClH2ODave]

I normally do a 10 - 15% water change once every two weeks.

I had to order more reagent packs for my Hanna phosphate checker, so I won't know that parameter for a few days. If it is low, what's a good way to raise it without causing other problems like algae?

[RioReefr]

Originally Posted by NaClH2ODave

Both are dying, one head at a time.
Any ideas?

Man, I feel your pain. I had a beautiful 30+ head Green Hammer colony die off one at a time. As of right now, I have maybe 5 left.

I posted 2-3 posts about the same issue. No one really knows why, unfortunately.

I tried things like iodine dip, 1-2 min H202 dip, moving to other parts of tank, cutting off the good parts and placing elsewhere.

This is my advice:

1) Try to get really good flow throughout the tank with lots of surface agitation.
2) On your wavermaker(s), try not to have it pointed directly at the hammer as the internal tissue is quite fragile. Make sure the polyps are swaying, but not thrashing.
3) Take a turkey baster/plastic pipette at night and try blow off any detritus that might be building up on the branches.

I will post a pic....the polyp will start to get limp, wilt, then eventually fall off exposing the skeleton. Sadly, what is shown in the pic is now completely dead.

IMO, some pest or something else infected it. My water parameters were all on-par.

[rvareef]

I would quit dosing and see if things improve, tank looks pretty new still and corals will do fine with water changes, did you use mostly dry/dead rock? What do you mean by connectivity issues with the lights?

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by NaClH2ODave

I normally do a 10 - 15% water change once every two weeks.

I had to order more reagent packs for my Hanna phosphate checker, so I won't know that parameter for a few days. If it is low, what's a good way to raise it without causing other problems like algae?

Like others, I am not sure why they are dying. Usually 1 head goes but that's it.

That being said, something does not make sense to me in your numbers. If you were dosing calcium (interesting not ALK as well which is used up a same amount) at 1ml per gallon, your calcium should have been extremely high, and your numbers is a bit low at 375....

Now back to my dosing.....60 Stoney corals and 3 large clams and I only dose 3ml (Alk and CA) per day in a similar sized tank. That seems odd???

If your doing a WC each two weeks and have only a few corals, you have no need to dose anything.

I would start with two 25% WC, two days apart. For now, I would stop dosing, go weekly 10-15 percent, then measure your parameters.....they should be very close to the normal ranges. Weekly will also provided better stability to your parameters as your tank appears young....

Dosing is for SPS - LPS -Clams anytime you gave a large Stoney coral load and consumption is higher than water change can replenish.

You should never be able to get phosphate "too low" unless you are running a real expensive GFO 24-7, lets do nothing here until you know the number...I would suggest .02-.04....phosphate comes from mostly foods, our hands, so check your foods for phosphate numbers if you think that is a problem

I don't see much algae in your pic, so I might guess your below .12, thus would not kill corals.

What every the problem is, it's affecting two separate corals at once. Zoas could live through a nuclear explosion so don't let them be your judge. All the E's (torch, hammer, frogs) are much more delicate.

[NaClH2ODave]

I'm dosing 84ml/day of alkalinity and calcium, and 24ml/day of magnesium.

All sand and rock was dry, but seeded with Fritz Turbostart 900, and even then, waited for about 4 weeks.

There were some bouts of a reddish algae on the sand, but that has mostly cleared up.

The connectivity issues were the 3 Ecotech Radions intermittently losing connection with the Apex WXM module, and even problems with the Eco Smart Live programming them.

I'll stop the dosing for now, and do the two 25% water changes this weekend.

My water is from a fairly trusted source, but I might go back to making my own with the ESV product.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[IowaReefer]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Its not uncommon to have problems with frog/hammer corals after them being totally fine for a while,etc...

Your levels while some are a bit low and mag a bit high shouldn't be a problem provided they are and have been kept stable..

Any signs of a brown jelly disease?

In general most of these posts are unresolved as we just don't have enough diagnostic equipment to see whats going on.. That and well corals can't send text messages..

Right on the money. I have been at this since 2004 and still have the occasional euphillia colony that hates my tank for no apparent reason.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by Uncle99

Now back to my dosing.....60 Stoney corals and 3 large clams and I only dose 3ml (Alk and CA) per day in a similar sized tank. That seems odd???

.

Your dosing seems odd to me...
Are your corals actually growing? they can't be with such little consumption..
Are they all tiny..tiny..tiny frags?

You didn't say what chemicals you are using but 3ml of randys 2 part is enough for only like a .025dkh consumption a day..

[mattgumaer]

Originally Posted by NaClH2ODave

Thanks for the input so far. It's a Red Sea 105 gallon peninsula with 20 gallon sump. I'm dosing ESV magnesium, calcium and alkalinity.

This set up is about five months old, but everything came from a thriving 50 gallon aquarium where things were growing out of control.

Lights are three Radeon XR15G4 Pros set to 35% max, but have had constant connectivity problems with my Apex system.

I would guess, and its only a semi-educated guess, one of the following: 1) change in lighting, not sure what your old lights were but, if you're coming from something like t5s to Radions, it can be a somewhat difficult transition; I realize you're only at 35% max but, I would consider turning them down some more, running for less time and/or changing up your programming depending on what you're running; 2) change in flow; too much flow or more constant, direct flow, can cause problems; or 3) maybe fewer nutrients in your new tank versus your old.

You should be asking, what's different in my new tank where they are struggling than my old, where they did well. Even if you think the differences are 'better' in the new tank, your corals might not think so.

As others have suggested, it seems odd that your calcium isn't over 400 given your dosing and relatively low coral density. If you're adding a bunch of calcium and it isn't going up, it suggests your mag and/or alk is off and the added calcium is simply precipitating out. If your tests show mag and alk are spot on, I'd consider using some other test kits or talking some water to the fish store and asking them to test it to confirm your numbers. I've had some test kits that didn't 'age well' and after replacing them with new kits, got significantly different results, even though the new kits were identical to the old, except for the age.

Good luck.

Matt

[ryan420r6]

Losing heads that fast sounds like brown jelly to me. I lost 2 out of 5 heads in a couple days on my torch before I was able to dip. The remaining 3 heads lived a few more months but eventually died as well. I had a couple algae outbreaks during that time so that’s what I’m attributing the disease to. I wouldn’t recommend Euphyllia corals until all your parameters are very stable. If I were you I would get them out of that tank before they all die.


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[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Your dosing seems odd to me...
Are your corals actually growing? they can't be with such little consumption..
Are they all tiny..tiny..tiny frags?

You didn't say what chemicals you are using but 3ml of randys 2 part is enough for only like a .025dkh consumption a day..

Nope, all full size, growth rate seems good to me, the SPS Acros, about 1/8" per month, clams about the same in relation to new shell growth.

I am using Seachem Fusion 1 and 2, both checked weekly for 6 months using Hanna, average consumption is 21ppm per week. Using RED SEA PRO, WC, every week, mixes a bit high in the range.
If that still seems odd, let me know, I value your opinion...

It probably not a good idea to submit samples as each tank us different and we all use different additives, so your point is well taken.

Still don't see a new tank, with little load requiring any dosing, and while I doubt this is the OP's problem, seems like a waste of ions....

Just trying to help the OP, my experience significantly less than yours, but always enjoy your responses (and humor)

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by NaClH2ODave

I'm dosing 84ml/day of alkalinity and calcium, and 24ml/day of magnesium.

All sand and rock was dry, but seeded with Fritz Turbostart 900, and even then, waited for about 4 weeks.

There were some bouts of a reddish algae on the sand, but that has mostly cleared up.

The connectivity issues were the 3 Ecotech Radions intermittently losing connection with the Apex WXM module, and even problems with the Eco Smart Live programming them.

I'll stop the dosing for now, and do the two 25% water changes this weekend.

My water is from a fairly trusted source, but I might go back to making my own with the ESV product.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Ya, I don't see the dosing as the killer, I just jumped out to me about dosing when I viewed the pic, I would have expected more corals, but Mcgyvr is right in his post, my dosing and yours can be completely different in terms of additive concentration.

After the water change, see what the new numbers say, record, then wait a week and do them again, that should give a ballpark on consumption. If low, then by all means, dosing is required.

My thinking is that after WC, you should not be far off the ranges of that salt mix.

The only time I ever had a problem with the E's group, was when the tank was new. i have a dozen going for 26 months now, they do seem to like exceptional water on point to NSW, and totally hate change of any type.

If they are dying fast, I jump to bacteria, I know some have saved their E's with a short bath in iodide solution, I know someone member on this site just wrote a long post on this process within the last week, maybe a read of this post may help guide you.