need help before i install this 180g tank. what are there? old sumps or canister??

mrkev91 · 07/08/2016, 09:20 AM

bought a new tank and this came with at the bottom on the stand. they are attach to the stand[ATTACH]sump2.jpg[/ATTACH]

Tinkanator2000 · 07/08/2016, 09:32 AM

Those are Ocean Clear pleated cartridge filters. They work just like the pool filters on those cheap DIY pools everyone sells. The pleated cartridge inside filters to 25 microns, and the pressure gauge tells you when the filter starts to clog. They need a good pressure rated pump to FEED them water from the tank (you shouldn't draw water through them). In a sense they do work like a canister filter of sorts. You could buy sponges to go in the center of the pleated cartridge for bio media as well. When the filter becomes clogged you have to pull them and rinse well with a hose. Then you soak them in bleach water for 24 hours and follow that with a 24 hour soak in clean water with Seachem Prime (or the like to remove the chlorine). If it were me I would buy 2 more pleated cartridges to set-up a rotation. They look like the model 340 filters.

I honestly wouldn't use them as my filtration due to the hassle, but they do have the benefit of filtering the water very well for particulates.

mrkev91 · 07/08/2016, 09:35 AM

I have a salt water tank, would they work on it??, I have a 500 canister running my aquarium.. I was thinkin of removing those 2 and just add one more canister on the 180g thanks..suggestions?

Sk8r · 07/08/2016, 09:39 AM

If it were my tank, I'd disconnect those and install a sump with skimmer. Filters are appropriate for a fish-only with sand and live rock, but they aren't nearly as good as a sump and enough live rock to support the fish load. The deal is simply that filters build up nitrate until they're cleaned, and then have less nitrate, and fish tolerate that in moderation, but the nitrate getting way high will do in corals and such. It depends on what sort of tank you want. Sand and a little rock and filters to clean---or sand and more rock and no filters to clean, just a skimmer cup to empty now and again, with the possibility of corals. CHoice is yours.

mrkev91 · 07/08/2016, 09:50 AM

I want to have enough rocks so my fish can hide. The guy at my fish store said I could replace those with c500 canister, I been running my canister on my 55g tank. 2 torches, one yellow tang, one blue tang, 2 clowns, one blue damsel, one crown royal, crabs snails u name it..but I dnt want to differents corals, I wanna stick with torches. now I had this aquarium for more then 1 year now. no deaths. with that being said will 2 canister do the work to get my aquarium goin with that I have?

Tinkanator2000 · 07/08/2016, 12:49 PM

There really is only one replacement for a good skimmer and that's water changes. Water changes and canister filters are great for fresh tanks because they're pretty simple and cost effective to do/use. With saltwater you then incur the trouble of mixing the water and spending all the money on salt. If you were to go without a skimmer you would be best served to do more frequent and larger water changes to keep your nitrates in check. On a 180 gallon tank the cost of salt will start to catch up with you. This is not to say that when using a skimmer you can totally skimp on water changes, but it sure does help to spread them out and keep them smaller.

With the skimmer (unlike those canister filters) the organics are removed from the water column instead of being trapped in a filter material and allowed to break down thus polluting the water. Fish can handle a fair amount of nitrate (less so for corals, but even those do vary to a degree) but what I would most be concerned with is having it available for algae. Algae is most saltwater hobbyists arch nemesis and I can't even tell you how many people have quit due to it being such a PITA. You want to do yourself the favor of getting way ahead of that game by keeping your nutrient levels in check.

With those pleated filters they will do an excellent job of filtering debris but at the cost of never exporting that waste until you manually remove and clean them (which involves shutting down the feed pump, draining them, remove/clean/soak/rinse filters, cleaning internals, and replacing the lost saltwater with new saltwater not fresh or you will slowly lower your overall salinity) which will get old FAST. If you are however set on using them I would remove 1 and use just the other and keep the extra filter so you can always have a clean one ready to go.

With the fact that many PETCO are having their dollar a gallon sale on now I would really suggest going the route of a good skimmer and a home made sump. You will not regret the choice in the future and it honestly is where you're ultimately going to end up anyway.

mrkev91 · 07/08/2016, 03:50 PM

I dnt know how to make a home made sump. I wanted to use the 55g as a sump

Tinkanator2000 · 07/08/2016, 04:45 PM

I would look to the forum search or google for good guides on making your own sump. Don't be discouraged by the prospect because it really is quite easy to do. Make sure you use the proper silicone (I like the red tube Home Depot sells near their skylights and plexiglass) but really you need to be sure you pick one that DOES NOT contain any mold inhibitors (it'll say somewhere on the tube if it does).

I would suggest seeing if you can find a skimmer first (they are all designed to operate in a certain depth of water) so that you can make your dividers the proper height to maintain an adequate water level for your chosen skimmer. The other option is to make the skimmer section deeper and use a skimmer stand to adjust the height (can be made from zip ties and egg crate). Don't make your sump sections overly deep though as you want to be sure that when the power goes off and the tank drains a few inches of water into the sump that it can hold that water.

This all sounds much more complex then it is, I PROMISE. Do a little reading and you'll be very happy you did in the long run. As far as a sump size I prefer a 40B over a 55 because a 55 can be tall to fit in a traditional stand and still have room to get in to it with your hands or get the skimmer out. There is also the added benefit of a 40B being cheaper.

These last pieces of advice are going to sound bad but it really should be told to anyone getting into this hobby:

This hobby is expensive (it doesn't have to be ridiculously so but it is expensive) and it's best to wrap your head around that before you jump in. Try your best not to cut corners so it doesn't bite you later (buying the overly cheap return pump to have it break when the one that was 50% more would have lasted longer.... this could snowball into mass fish/coral death then you're out even more..... just an example).

Buying things used can be a MASSIVE help!

Don't get discouraged too easy as this hobby will test your resolve and your patience at some point or more

It's all worth it in the end when you can sit back and enjoy what YOU have accomplished!

uncleL · 07/08/2016, 06:01 PM

I'm assuming your tank is not drilled correct? How deep is you send it and how much live rock do you have?

Sk8r · 07/08/2016, 09:17 PM

If you want torches, that is a stony coral, which requires lps standard conditions, including calcium supplementation.

07/08/2016, 09:39 AM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If it were my tank, I'd disconnect those and install a sump with skimmer. Filters are appropriate for a fish-only with sand and live rock, but they aren't nearly as good as a sump and enough live rock to support the fish load. The deal is simply that filters build up nitrate until they're cleaned, and then have less nitrate, and fish tolerate that in moderation, but the nitrate getting way high will do in corals and such. It depends on what sort of tank you want. Sand and a little rock and filters to clean---or sand and more rock and no filters to clean, just a skimmer cup to empty now and again, with the possibility of corals. CHoice is yours. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/08/2016, 06:01 PM	#9
uncleL Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: NC Posts: 411	I'm assuming your tank is not drilled correct? How deep is you send it and how much live rock do you have? __________________ Current Tank Info: 75g QT, 90g DT, 180g under construction Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon setting up slowly, 90 Gallon Mixed Reef No Sump 3 Tangs,, 4 Clowns, Lawnmower Blenny, Coral Beauty, Coralband Shrimp, Cleaner Shrimp, Snails, Zoas, Mushrooms, FrogsSpawn, Toadstools, FeatherDuster, Xenias, Anemones,29g, 20g

07/08/2016, 09:17 PM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If you want torches, that is a stony coral, which requires lps standard conditions, including calcium supplementation. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/08/2016, 09:32 AM	#2
Tinkanator2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 168	Those are Ocean Clear pleated cartridge filters. They work just like the pool filters on those cheap DIY pools everyone sells. The pleated cartridge inside filters to 25 microns, and the pressure gauge tells you when the filter starts to clog. They need a good pressure rated pump to FEED them water from the tank (you shouldn't draw water through them). In a sense they do work like a canister filter of sorts. You could buy sponges to go in the center of the pleated cartridge for bio media as well. When the filter becomes clogged you have to pull them and rinse well with a hose. Then you soak them in bleach water for 24 hours and follow that with a 24 hour soak in clean water with Seachem Prime (or the like to remove the chlorine). If it were me I would buy 2 more pleated cartridges to set-up a rotation. They look like the model 340 filters. I honestly wouldn't use them as my filtration due to the hassle, but they do have the benefit of filtering the water very well for particulates.

07/08/2016, 09:35 AM	#3
mrkev91 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: alabama Posts: 11	I have a salt water tank, would they work on it??, I have a 500 canister running my aquarium.. I was thinkin of removing those 2 and just add one more canister on the 180g thanks..suggestions?

07/08/2016, 09:50 AM	#5
mrkev91 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: alabama Posts: 11	I want to have enough rocks so my fish can hide. The guy at my fish store said I could replace those with c500 canister, I been running my canister on my 55g tank. 2 torches, one yellow tang, one blue tang, 2 clowns, one blue damsel, one crown royal, crabs snails u name it..but I dnt want to differents corals, I wanna stick with torches. now I had this aquarium for more then 1 year now. no deaths. with that being said will 2 canister do the work to get my aquarium goin with that I have?

07/08/2016, 12:49 PM	#6
Tinkanator2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 168	There really is only one replacement for a good skimmer and that's water changes. Water changes and canister filters are great for fresh tanks because they're pretty simple and cost effective to do/use. With saltwater you then incur the trouble of mixing the water and spending all the money on salt. If you were to go without a skimmer you would be best served to do more frequent and larger water changes to keep your nitrates in check. On a 180 gallon tank the cost of salt will start to catch up with you. This is not to say that when using a skimmer you can totally skimp on water changes, but it sure does help to spread them out and keep them smaller. With the skimmer (unlike those canister filters) the organics are removed from the water column instead of being trapped in a filter material and allowed to break down thus polluting the water. Fish can handle a fair amount of nitrate (less so for corals, but even those do vary to a degree) but what I would most be concerned with is having it available for algae. Algae is most saltwater hobbyists arch nemesis and I can't even tell you how many people have quit due to it being such a PITA. You want to do yourself the favor of getting way ahead of that game by keeping your nutrient levels in check. With those pleated filters they will do an excellent job of filtering debris but at the cost of never exporting that waste until you manually remove and clean them (which involves shutting down the feed pump, draining them, remove/clean/soak/rinse filters, cleaning internals, and replacing the lost saltwater with new saltwater not fresh or you will slowly lower your overall salinity) which will get old FAST. If you are however set on using them I would remove 1 and use just the other and keep the extra filter so you can always have a clean one ready to go. With the fact that many PETCO are having their dollar a gallon sale on now I would really suggest going the route of a good skimmer and a home made sump. You will not regret the choice in the future and it honestly is where you're ultimately going to end up anyway.

07/08/2016, 03:50 PM	#7
mrkev91 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: alabama Posts: 11	I dnt know how to make a home made sump. I wanted to use the 55g as a sump

07/08/2016, 04:45 PM	#8
Tinkanator2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 168	I would look to the forum search or google for good guides on making your own sump. Don't be discouraged by the prospect because it really is quite easy to do. Make sure you use the proper silicone (I like the red tube Home Depot sells near their skylights and plexiglass) but really you need to be sure you pick one that DOES NOT contain any mold inhibitors (it'll say somewhere on the tube if it does). I would suggest seeing if you can find a skimmer first (they are all designed to operate in a certain depth of water) so that you can make your dividers the proper height to maintain an adequate water level for your chosen skimmer. The other option is to make the skimmer section deeper and use a skimmer stand to adjust the height (can be made from zip ties and egg crate). Don't make your sump sections overly deep though as you want to be sure that when the power goes off and the tank drains a few inches of water into the sump that it can hold that water. This all sounds much more complex then it is, I PROMISE. Do a little reading and you'll be very happy you did in the long run. As far as a sump size I prefer a 40B over a 55 because a 55 can be tall to fit in a traditional stand and still have room to get in to it with your hands or get the skimmer out. There is also the added benefit of a 40B being cheaper. These last pieces of advice are going to sound bad but it really should be told to anyone getting into this hobby: This hobby is expensive (it doesn't have to be ridiculously so but it is expensive) and it's best to wrap your head around that before you jump in. Try your best not to cut corners so it doesn't bite you later (buying the overly cheap return pump to have it break when the one that was 50% more would have lasted longer.... this could snowball into mass fish/coral death then you're out even more..... just an example). Buying things used can be a MASSIVE help! Don't get discouraged too easy as this hobby will test your resolve and your patience at some point or more It's all worth it in the end when you can sit back and enjoy what YOU have accomplished!