using the Neptune DOS to do automatic water changes

[airtime23]

Ok, so I need some input here on a new build in a new house.

I am planning to use a DOS to do automatic water changes.

My tank will be in the study. I had the builder put in a floor drain under where the stand will go. The old saltwater will obviously be routed to the drain. I also had the builder put in two pipes leading from the walk-in attic to the wall behind where the tank will go. One is a large diameter pipe for water changes and the other is a smaller diameter pipe(the same size as used for RO/DI units) for auto-top offs.

I'm planning to have a 50-55 gallon barrel in the attic for mixing new saltwater and this is also where my RO/DI unit will reside.

So, my question is - how can I logistically use the DOS to do automatic water changes knowing my setup? The DOS has to be hooked up to the Apex Gold module. This will be in my stand. How can I use this setup to access/trigger the water change from the barrel in the attic? Or, will I need to manually pump some of the new saltwater from the barrel into another container beneath the stand and then have the DOS access the new water from this container to do water changes?

My mind is spinning here in how to do this properly....any advice would be appreciated.

[airtime23]

Bump...anyone?

[Joel_155]

I want to do this! Need awc on my future tank.

[airtime23]

Bump again...can anyone please help me?

[d2mini]

I'm just talking out loud here, but this is what I would do.
Put your SW container where ever is convenient for you.
Run your water lines from the SW container to your DOS and from your DOS to your tank.
Then run your drain lines from your tank to your DOS and from your DOS to your floor drain.
Now that all the lines are run, decide how much you want to change each time it runs. Let's say 1 gallon. Run the pump that controls your drain line, but stick the floor drain end of the hose in a bucket and time how long it takes to discard exactly one gallon. Then run the fill pump and time how long it takes to fill your bucket to exactly one gallon. Since you are running different lengths of water line, you are going to have a variation in how much each pump is pumping. Check with Apex, because there may be an easier way to calibrate the pumps but either way it has to be done after the lines are run.
Once that is done you should be able to tell each pump to run the specified time.

Someone else who owns an Apex and a DOS can probably chime in and fill in the missing details but that should give you some general idea of what needs to be done.

[airtime23]

Gotcha, d2mini. Makes sense.

Now what kind of lines would be best? The small diameter lines (like for providing water to refrigerators / RODI units)?

Would the DOS be able to "pull" water from a barrel ~ 25-30 feet away (including 9 feet up a wall and then 9 feet down a wall)?

[m0nkie]

reading from APEX, looks like you can use 3mm tubes.

subscribing to this.

. The most popular dosing pumps on the market use tube fittings with the tiny diameter of 1.67mm. The DŌS uses much larger tubing and fittings. In fact, at 3.33mm in diameter, the pump on the DŌS can handle 4x the flow of the most common pump style on the market (pictured). This means that your pump (and motor) will run 1/4 the time to pump the same amount of fluid.

[Pokahpolice]

I'm doing the same on my new build. Your saltwater reservoir needs to be in a place where the DOS can pump it from the reservoir to the sump or display. The DOS has a max head height of 24 feet so you have quite a bit of play there.

So, as long as you're within that range you can run a line from the saltwater mix tank to the DOS located under the display tank stand.Then run the other end into the sump. The second pump will then be placed from the sump to the floor drain to remove water matching the amount of new salt mix you are adding.

[airtime23]

Does max head height mean that the reservoir has to be within 24 feet of the DOS pump? Or does it mean that the DOS can pump vertically/upwards a max of 24 feet?

So, in other words, if my reservoir is say 35 feet away from the DOS/stand, am I out of luck?

[m0nkie]

Lift Height: 24 feet (minimum at MSL)
Suction Height: 24 feet

so vertically!

I plan to use this for water change and a DIY frozen food feeder

[brittonv]

OK here are my thoughts on this.

1. Are you dosing elements in to your tank as well? I am going to assume yes since you are willing to invest in the DOS. With that being the case, why are you looking to do this Automated water Change? Only real reason to do a water change in this configuration is to siphon Detritus out the tank. An AWC with the DOS will not remove Detritus.

That all aside.

The DOS uses Stepper motors so it is extremely accurate for what it is pumping... If you pump the water out for 1000 Rotations and in for 1000 Rotations you will be 1:1 on your water exchange. I would be more concerned with what happens when the Dosing Tub wears out and you now have 55 gallons of Attic Sea water Siphoning in to your house. Not to mention that I would be skeptical that you attic Trusses are designed to support the almost 700lbs of water in a 3 sqft area.

IMHO you would be better If you configured your system to automatically refill after a water change. Such that you could siphon out the Detritus then hit your restore button and have it refill and then restart your pumps. This is my plan anyway for my tank.

If you are hard set on Automated water changes, I would do something like set a Auto Top system with your sea water then from the APEX disable your RODI ATO, and then used a small pump to pump water from your tank to the drain and let the Sea ATO refresh the water.

Just me but the use of a DOS for Water changes seems like kind of a waste.

[m0nkie]

Originally Posted by brittonv

Only real reason to do a water change in this configuration is to siphon Detritus out the tank. An AWS with the DOS will not remove Detritus.

Just me but the use of a DOS for Water changes seems like kind of a waste.

There are many reasons to do a water change than simply waste removal, for example to replenish trace elements..

for larger systems, it's easier to set up a weekly automated 10% WC. This way you don't need to do huge WCs every other week

[brittonv]

Also you will want to monitor you water level in you seawater tank so that it doesn't try to do a water change while the tank is empty and end up just pumping water out of your DT.

[Toddrtrex]

So, if I am reading this correctly, your make up water will be in the attic? Which, I am guessing will be above the tank?

If so, this won't work, a siphon will be started.

Neptune states that the dosing containers (( and would believe that this would apply to make up water container )) must be below the DOS unit. Someone had their ALK (( or Cal, can't recall )) container above the unit and emptied the container into the tank.

[brittonv]

Originally Posted by m0nkie

There are many reasons to do a water change than simply waste removal

My apologies I should have said Main reason.

But that is why I had asked if he was dosing elements which reduces the benefit of doing a WC for the benefit Trace Elements.

I am all for doing the water change but my suggestion is that instead of the way he is looking to do it, instead set up a system where he can siphon and refill painlessly rater than 'this'.

[airtime23]

Originally Posted by Toddrtrex

So, if I am reading this correctly, your make up water will be in the attic? Which, I am guessing will be above the tank?

If so, this won't work, a siphon will be started.

Neptune states that the dosing containers (( and would believe that this would apply to make up water container )) must be below the DOS unit. Someone had their ALK (( or Cal, can't recall )) container above the unit and emptied the container into the tank.

That walk-in attic (basically an unfinished room) is on the same floor as the tank, just about 25 feet away.

And to answer the other poster, I am not dosing anything (I will be using small daily water changes to replenish elements and also a calcium reactor).

[airtime23]

Originally Posted by brittonv

My apologies I should have said Main reason.

But that is why I had asked if he was dosing elements which reduces the benefit of doing a WC for the benefit Trace Elements.

I am all for doing the water change but my suggestion is that instead of the way he is looking to do it, instead set up a system where he can siphon and refill painlessly rater than 'this'.

Not dosing elements.

[brittonv]

I think you would be best served if you took all the above and reframed your question in light of any new information you have received.

[airtime23]

To summarize -

Can the DOS be used to access ("pull") water from a 55 gallon barrel of new saltwater approximately 30 feet away to do automatic water changes? The barrel is on the same floor as the tank, but the pipe would go from the barrel, up about 4-5 feet into the attic, run about 20 feet or so, then down about 8 feet into the stand where the DOS would be located.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by Toddrtrex

So, if I am reading this correctly, your make up water will be in the attic? Which, I am guessing will be above the tank?

If so, this won't work, a siphon will be started.

Neptune states that the dosing containers (( and would believe that this would apply to make up water container )) must be below the DOS unit. Someone had their ALK (( or Cal, can't recall )) container above the unit and emptied the container into the tank.

That's really odd since the DOS is supposed to be a peristaltic pump... at least that's what I thought.

I guess not!
That sucks.
I always had my dosing containers above my GHL doser and no problems.

[Breadman03]

Originally Posted by d2mini

That's really odd since the DOS is supposed to be a peristaltic pump... at least that's what I thought.

I guess not!
That sucks.
I always had my dosing containers above my GHL doser and no problems.

They are peristaltic. The problem is that p-pumps can still siphon. My only hesitation in the DOS is the 2 roller setup. If they release a 3 roller head, I will buy upgraded heads.

[brittonv]

Originally Posted by airtime23

To summarize -

Can the DOS be used to access ("pull") water from a 55 gallon barrel of new saltwater approximately 30 feet away to do automatic water changes? The barrel is on the same floor as the tank, but the pipe would go from the barrel, up about 4-5 feet into the attic, run about 20 feet or so, then down about 8 feet into the stand where the DOS would be located.

No. But not because it can't pump that far, because from your description your stand is below your Barrel. Therefore it will siphon and overflow.

If you put the dose input directly in to the DT which I presume would be Higher than the high water mark in your Barrel, then Yes. The important part is that Where the water enters your tank is higher than the high water line in you barrel and air gaped (don't put the hose in the water). In Fact the DOS itself should be higher than the high water mark in your Barrel. Other wise any failure in the wearable tubing or fittings will result in a huge mess IMHO.

[airtime23]

What I don't understand is how a peristalic pump could siphon...the rollers in the "stopped" position (when the pump is not functioning) should stop any movement of water within the tubing, no?

At any one time, at least one of the rollers should be compressing the tubing, no?

Help me understand how a DOS unit could cause a siphon, please.

[Pokahpolice]

Originally Posted by brittonv

OK here are my thoughts on this.

Only real reason to do a water change in this configuration is to siphon Detritus out the tank.

Disagree

[nezw0001]

im using DOS for AWC on my 220 DT. my SW reservoir is probably 20ft away from the tank but lower than my DOS. Best improvement to my tank ive ever done.