Qt and instant cycle

Jetsetter57 · 06/01/2014, 01:26 PM

So qt fish 2 weeks min in an uncycled tank? Constant water changes to eliminate ammonia and nitrite correct?

So once live sand and some live rock added to dry rock and dry sand with an instant cycling bacteria could get fish into the display on a matter of days ?

griseum · 06/01/2014, 01:59 PM

I dont know if those two questions can be answered successfully in a single post. Theres a lot of information to take in to consideration with everything they both entail, as well as a bit of trial and error, and the experience that comes with it.

The QT process is essential.
As is the "Cycling" of your Display tank, and depending on your method, of your QT tank too.

Patience is super important. I know I used to get tired of hearing about "Patience" and "nothing good happens fast in reefing." But after you keep losing fish, and corals, and having to nuke your tank after a bad outbreak of a pest or velvet or _____ (Fill in the blank with many things.) you naturally understand the need to be patient. I've wanted to jump the gun and take a beautiful fish out of a QT and get it into the System faster to show her off too. But as I've seen it written, the long term success of fish keeping is impossible without responsible quarantine practices.
If you dont QT the fish, for more like 6-8 weeks, with an observation and fattening period, then perhaps prophylactic treatment with Cupramine (Copper) and Praziquantel, or any other med for a specific ailment, than you roll the dice every time you add a new fish to the display.

As for cycling a tank, Instant Cycle is a gimmick and doesn't really exist. I believe it to be a marketing ploy, resulting in a lot of tragedy. Now with that said, I do use some of the bottled bacteria products. Specifically MicroBacter7 from Brightwell, and SeaChem's version too. Julian Sprungs TLF bacteria that accompanies the Biopellets they make, is also a good product. But it is still not, add "live" sand from CaribSea, and Live Rock from your LFS, and you are ready to add a tank full of fish.
If you start with Dry Rock, and Dry Sand, and you Seed both with Live Rock and Live Sand, you are simply introducing the starter cultures of the Ammonia and Nitrogen-consuming bacteria that are still not at great enough quantities to sustain a fish load.
Bacteria are amazing , in that they are prokaryotic, simple celled little organisms, each with their own favorite source of Carbon, and the other organic molecules to help fuel their metabolism. They have varying Double Times, which are unique to each species of Bacteria. They can double the size of their population, in as little as a few hours.

But it still takes weeks, and if dosing the bacteria in a bottle, sometimes it just masks the cycle that your tank is still going to go through. This will show you an end result of nitrates, when you really don't have the biological filtration to sustain the fish load without constantly dosing the tank with bottles of bacteria.

Some of the recent TV shows regarding Tank builders have given off this impression. Dr. Tims bacteria, one of the original and one of the best, can be used as well. But it is no replacement for the waiting period of a natural, ammonia-fueled Nitrogen Cycle.

This can take between 5-8 weeks, with no fish, but feeding the tank as though you had fish. This method then prepares the tank for the bioload you have been feeding for, but you still cannot add a tank load of fish at once. The best method of adding fish is to have your desired stocklist before adding or purchasing anything. Figure out aggression levels and which fish are compatible with the fish you choose. Then create an order of which fish should be added first, second, and so on. Sometimes there are fish that are better off added simultaneously. But give the tank time in between adding fish, so that your bio-filter can adjust to the new ammonia levels from the fish and feeding, before you add the next fish.

And you can still enjoy your fish while in QT, if you set up a QT that isnt hidden in a dark corner, where you will get to observe it often during the day. And if you feel like you can watch your fish in the QT just as well as in the Display, maybe you wont have that itch to add it to the DT too soon.

Just my 2 cents. Got long winded again. I definitely dont know everything, just a little bit of what I've experienced my self. I hope others chime in with their Experience and opinions too. The more information you go in with, the better your chances.
There are guys here with the rarest of fish, the most beautiful fish tanks, that have been doing this for a lot longer than I have.
I hope you get to hear from the lot of them.

Jetsetter57 · 06/01/2014, 05:55 PM

It's definitely overwhelming. The qt tank though doesn't need to be cycled right? Specifically there's 2 fish in there now and my ammonia/nitrite was high (more than 0) after two days so I did a 50% water change but will that need to occur for 6weeks of qt time?

06/01/2014, 01:26 PM	#1
Jetsetter57 Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 80	Qt and instant cycle So qt fish 2 weeks min in an uncycled tank? Constant water changes to eliminate ammonia and nitrite correct? So once live sand and some live rock added to dry rock and dry sand with an instant cycling bacteria could get fish into the display on a matter of days ?

06/01/2014, 01:59 PM	#2
griseum Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 823	I dont know if those two questions can be answered successfully in a single post. Theres a lot of information to take in to consideration with everything they both entail, as well as a bit of trial and error, and the experience that comes with it. The QT process is essential. As is the "Cycling" of your Display tank, and depending on your method, of your QT tank too. Patience is super important. I know I used to get tired of hearing about "Patience" and "nothing good happens fast in reefing." But after you keep losing fish, and corals, and having to nuke your tank after a bad outbreak of a pest or velvet or _____ (Fill in the blank with many things.) you naturally understand the need to be patient. I've wanted to jump the gun and take a beautiful fish out of a QT and get it into the System faster to show her off too. But as I've seen it written, the long term success of fish keeping is impossible without responsible quarantine practices. If you dont QT the fish, for more like 6-8 weeks, with an observation and fattening period, then perhaps prophylactic treatment with Cupramine (Copper) and Praziquantel, or any other med for a specific ailment, than you roll the dice every time you add a new fish to the display. As for cycling a tank, Instant Cycle is a gimmick and doesn't really exist. I believe it to be a marketing ploy, resulting in a lot of tragedy. Now with that said, I do use some of the bottled bacteria products. Specifically MicroBacter7 from Brightwell, and SeaChem's version too. Julian Sprungs TLF bacteria that accompanies the Biopellets they make, is also a good product. But it is still not, add "live" sand from CaribSea, and Live Rock from your LFS, and you are ready to add a tank full of fish. If you start with Dry Rock, and Dry Sand, and you Seed both with Live Rock and Live Sand, you are simply introducing the starter cultures of the Ammonia and Nitrogen-consuming bacteria that are still not at great enough quantities to sustain a fish load. Bacteria are amazing , in that they are prokaryotic, simple celled little organisms, each with their own favorite source of Carbon, and the other organic molecules to help fuel their metabolism. They have varying Double Times, which are unique to each species of Bacteria. They can double the size of their population, in as little as a few hours. But it still takes weeks, and if dosing the bacteria in a bottle, sometimes it just masks the cycle that your tank is still going to go through. This will show you an end result of nitrates, when you really don't have the biological filtration to sustain the fish load without constantly dosing the tank with bottles of bacteria. Some of the recent TV shows regarding Tank builders have given off this impression. Dr. Tims bacteria, one of the original and one of the best, can be used as well. But it is no replacement for the waiting period of a natural, ammonia-fueled Nitrogen Cycle. This can take between 5-8 weeks, with no fish, but feeding the tank as though you had fish. This method then prepares the tank for the bioload you have been feeding for, but you still cannot add a tank load of fish at once. The best method of adding fish is to have your desired stocklist before adding or purchasing anything. Figure out aggression levels and which fish are compatible with the fish you choose. Then create an order of which fish should be added first, second, and so on. Sometimes there are fish that are better off added simultaneously. But give the tank time in between adding fish, so that your bio-filter can adjust to the new ammonia levels from the fish and feeding, before you add the next fish. And you can still enjoy your fish while in QT, if you set up a QT that isnt hidden in a dark corner, where you will get to observe it often during the day. And if you feel like you can watch your fish in the QT just as well as in the Display, maybe you wont have that itch to add it to the DT too soon. Just my 2 cents. Got long winded again. I definitely dont know everything, just a little bit of what I've experienced my self. I hope others chime in with their Experience and opinions too. The more information you go in with, the better your chances. There are guys here with the rarest of fish, the most beautiful fish tanks, that have been doing this for a lot longer than I have. I hope you get to hear from the lot of them.

06/01/2014, 05:55 PM	#3
Jetsetter57 Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 80	It's definitely overwhelming. The qt tank though doesn't need to be cycled right? Specifically there's 2 fish in there now and my ammonia/nitrite was high (more than 0) after two days so I did a 50% water change but will that need to occur for 6weeks of qt time?