PLEASE check out your intended fish purchases here first!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by AmberL

I have a 90 gallon tank with live rock, sump, and protein skimmer.
I have acquired a Goldrim Tang. He's beautiful and I want to keep him.

They are considered difficult. Is there a question?

[tfrechette]

I'm going from a 57 gallon to a 120. Presently in the 57 I have a clown (false?), bicolor dottyback and flameback angel. They get along fine. Both tanks are reef with sumps.

Going to the 120 I'm thinking I would bring the dottyback back to the LFS; he's somewhat territorial and I don't want problems adding other fish.

So I'm thinking of the following along with my clown and flameback:
a Kole tang (Would a yellow tang and this guy get along?)
Blue green chromis (live aquaria suggests these in a group)
Foxface? (problem with the tang?)
What about a cardinal fish?
Any other suggestions?

Thanks

-Tom

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by tfrechette

I'm going from a 57 gallon to a 120. Presently in the 57 I have a clown (false?), bicolor dottyback and flameback angel. They get along fine. Both tanks are reef with sumps.

Going to the 120 I'm thinking I would bring the dottyback back to the LFS; he's somewhat territorial and I don't want problems adding other fish.

So I'm thinking of the following along with my clown and flameback:
a Kole tang (Would a yellow tang and this guy get along?) The Kole is fine, I would not do two tangs
Blue green chromis (live aquaria suggests these in a group) These will winnow down to one
Foxface? (problem with the tang?) Well, probably ok with the kole, too many large fish if you do two tangs
What about a cardinal fish? No problem but if Bangaii must be a pair
Any other suggestions?

Thanks

-Tom

[tfrechette]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the input. Curious why you said a blue green chromis group will winnow down to 1.

-Tom

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by tfrechette

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the input. Curious why you said a blue green chromis group will winnow down to 1.

-Tom

It seems as if they always do. Rare exceptions.

[Ferguson1977]

Originally Posted by snorvich

I am done adding fish for awhile but still like to browse and plan the next additions. The next things I want is a school of fish (3) and a fish that perches on the live rock. For the schooling fish, I am thinking Anthias or reef sale Wrasses.

Well neither will really "school" but the anthias come closest and these really need a larger tank for more than one

What would be a good trio of fish that would school, be peaceful and reef safe? No damsels!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Ferguson1977

What would be a good trio of fish that would school, be peaceful and reef safe? No damsels!

No fish will truly "school" in hobbyist sized aquaria. In a large enough tank (at least 125 gallons) anthias will shoal as will others such as zebra dartfish. Please read the post below.

[snorvich]

Since this issue comes up so frequently on Reef Central, some additional information might be useful. An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.

If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behavior such as swimming, so as to remain close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.

If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organized, with the fish synchronizing their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated maneuvers, as though the schools as a whole have minds of their own.

Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.[1] The intricacies of schooling are far from fully understood, especially the swimming and feeding energetics. Many hypotheses to explain the function of schooling have been suggested, such as better orientation, synchronized hunting, predator confusion and reduced risk of being found. Schooling also has disadvantages, such as excretion buildup in the breathing media and oxygen and food depletion. The way the fish array in the school probably gives energy saving advantages, though this is controversial.

Fish can be obligate or facultative shoalers. Obligate shoalers, such as tunas, herrings and anchovy, spend all of their time shoaling or schooling, and become agitated if separated from the group. Facultative shoalers, such as Atlantic cod, saiths and some carangids, shoal only some of the time, perhaps for reproductive purposes.

Shoaling fish can shift into a disciplined and coordinated school, then shift back to an amorphous shoal within seconds. Such shifts are triggered by changes of activity from feeding, resting, traveling or avoiding predators.

[Ferguson1977]

Very informative read, thanks!

[USA203]

40 Gallon Tank. Skimmer, Nexx cannister filter, T5 lights, 40+ lbs live rock, live sand. Going to add 17-20 gallon sump very soon. Has been cycled about a month now.

Want to have some mushrooms and soft coral.

What about.... (not necessarily in order of purchase)....

1 Clown (not sure which kind yet, suggestions?)
1 Firefish goby
1 Algae Blenny (or other blenny maybe?)
1 Serpent Starfish
1 cleaner shrimp

If above does not already have the tank maxed out I'd like to add 1 more "front and center" not shy, colorful fish for the family/kids to watch I prefer the funky fish/inverts you have to watch the tank awhile to even see but it's a "family tank" so, compromise! I like watchmen goby but...too shy? What else might work?

For CUC, which I already have, I have the Reefcleaners quick crew for 40 gallons--all snails, no crabs (and I don't want to add any). I think the CUC is pretty good.

35+ Dwarf Ceriths
14 Nassarius
14 Florida Ceriths
8 Large & 10 Small to Medium Nerites -
2 turbo snails
2 zebra turbos

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by USA203

40 Gallon Tank. Skimmer, Nexx cannister filter, T5 lights, 40+ lbs live rock, live sand. Going to add 17-20 gallon sump very soon. Has been cycled about a month now.

Want to have some mushrooms and soft coral.

What about.... (not necessarily in order of purchase)....

1 Clown (not sure which kind yet, suggestions?) Avoid a pair, A. percula is nice
1 Firefish goby Be sure this is added first and let it settle in
1 Algae Blenny (or other blenny maybe?)
1 Serpent Starfish Be careful, I seem to recall it can take fish
1 cleaner shrimp Or a pair

If above does not already have the tank maxed out I'd like to add 1 more "front and center" not shy, colorful fish for the family/kids to watch I prefer the funky fish/inverts you have to watch the tank awhile to even see but it's a "family tank" so, compromise! I like watchmen goby but...too shy? What else might work?

A watchman goby and pistol shrimp should do fine

For CUC, which I already have, I have the Reefcleaners quick crew for 40 gallons--all snails, no crabs (and I don't want to add any). I think the CUC is pretty good. I do too. No crabs!

35+ Dwarf Ceriths
14 Nassarius
14 Florida Ceriths
8 Large & 10 Small to Medium Nerites -
2 turbo snails
2 zebra turbos

[BioFreak]

Hey Snorvich,

What do you think about this:

I have a 240 gallon 96"x24"x24" tank coming soon that I will be upgrading into. My current tank is a 55 gallon Reef.

Fish Stocking Plan
=================================
Current Fish in Existing tank
2:Maroon Clown (Mated Pair) - Premnas biaculeatus
1: Pajama Cardinal - Sphaeramia nematoptera
1:Yellow Watchman Goby - Cryptocentrus cinctus
1:Lawnmower Blenny - Salarias fasciatus
1: Pygmy Angel - Centropyge argi
1:Christmas Wrasse - Halichoeres ornatissimus
=================================
New Fish
4:Chalk Basslet - Serranus tortugarum
1:Flagfin Angel - Apolemichthys trimaculatus
1:Flame Angel - Centropyge loriculus
1:Rusty Angel - Centropyge ferrugatus
1: Potters Angel - Centropyge potteri
2:Flame Hawkfish - Neocirrhitus armatus
1:Clown Tang - Acanthurus lineatus
1:Sailfin Tang - Zebrasoma veliferum
1: Puple Tang - Zebrasoma xanthurum
1:Yellow Belly Regal Blue Tang - Paracanthurus hepatus var.
1:Bristletooth Tomini Tang - Ctenochaetus tominiensis
1:Court Jester Goby - Amblygobius rainfordi
6:Orange Lined Cardinalfish - Apogon cyanosoma
10:Blue Reef Chromis - Chromis cyaneus

The existing tank is going to become a refuge for the new one. I will also be running a 55 gallons in the sump with a Reef Octopus NWB250 which is rated for 312-390 gallons. So, total gallonage of the system will be 350 gallons. And no I will not be adding all of these fish at once. I plan to slowly add them in one at a time, except for the schooling fish in which I will probably add 3-4 at a time.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by BioFreak

Hey Snorvich,

What do you think about this:

I have a 240 gallon 96"x24"x24" tank coming soon that I will be upgrading into. My current tank is a 55 gallon Reef.

Fish Stocking Plan
=================================
Current Fish in Existing tank
2:Maroon Clown (Mated Pair) - Premnas biaculeatus Very aggressive and will take over about 50 gallons of tank space
1: Pajama Cardinal - Sphaeramia nematoptera
1:Yellow Watchman Goby - Cryptocentrus cinctus
1:Lawnmower Blenny - Salarias fasciatus
1: Pygmy Angel - Centropyge argi
1:Christmas Wrasse - Halichoeres ornatissimus
=================================
New Fish
4:Chalk Basslet - Serranus tortugarum
1:Flagfin Angel - Apolemichthys trimaculatus
1:Flame Angel - Centropyge loriculus
1:Rusty Angel - Centropyge ferrugatus
1: Potters Angel - Centropyge potteri One of the more difficult pygmy angels
2:Flame Hawkfish - Neocirrhitus armatus I think these must be paired if more than one; not shrimp safe for sure
1:Clown Tang - Acanthurus lineatus I definitely recommend NOT doing this fish; they are problematical and very aggressive
1:Sailfin Tang - Zebrasoma veliferum
1: Puple Tang - Zebrasoma xanthurum
1:Yellow Belly Regal Blue Tang - Paracanthurus hepatus var.
1:Bristletooth Tomini Tang - Ctenochaetus tominiensis
1:Court Jester Goby - Amblygobius rainfordi
6:Orange Lined Cardinalfish - Apogon cyanosoma They will initially shoal, but in the long term pair off
10:Blue Reef Chromis - Chromis cyaneus

More often than not, they fish winnow down to one or two

The existing tank is going to become a refuge for the new one. I will also be running a 55 gallons in the sump with a Reef Octopus NWB250 which is rated for 312-390 gallons. So, total gallonage of the system will be 350 gallons. And no I will not be adding all of these fish at once. I plan to slowly add them in one at a time, except for the schooling fish in which I will probably add 3-4 at a time.

That is a LOT of fish for a 240 gallon tank, many of which are largish. As I have that tank (and a 350), I think the tank will look crowded. I assume FOWLR as many of these fish are not "reef safe"

[deathmatch782]

120g w/ a 75g sump and 120 lbs lr
sps dominated mixed reef

chevron tang x1
purple tang x1
blue/yellow assessor x3
yasha haze goby x2
clownfish x2
midas blenny x1

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by deathmatch782

120g w/ a 75g sump and 120 lbs lr
sps dominated mixed reef

chevron tang x1 Excellent
purple tang x1
blue/yellow assessor x3
yasha haze goby x2
clownfish x2
midas blenny x1

In general, I think it will be fine

[sassyfrassy]

I'm trying something a little different in my 65g - trying to grow macro algae. I currently have a pair of clown fish (1-1 1/2") and a green & a citron goby. I want to stick to fairly small fish b/c it's just 36" wide. I like gobies - especially the green ones. Could I have 3-4 of them together? Along w/ watchman, and a rainbow goby? They'd be cute scurrying among the rocks & algae. Also I want 2 Blue Grudgeon gobies. For upper level swimmers I was thinking about 2 flasher wrasses. And later - much later - after all fish are in, a gold midas blenny. I realize this may be a heavy biological load, but w/ fuge (chaeto & red mangroves) and the algae in DT figured it'd be OK. I have lots of snails & pretty many small hermits.

Thanks for suggestions.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by sassyfrassy

I'm trying something a little different in my 65g - trying to grow macro algae. I currently have a pair of clown fish (1-1 1/2") and a green & a citron goby. I want to stick to fairly small fish b/c it's just 36" wide. I like gobies - especially the green ones. Could I have 3-4 of them together? Along w/ watchman, and a rainbow goby? They'd be cute scurrying among the rocks & algae. Also I want 2 Blue Grudgeon gobies. For upper level swimmers I was thinking about 2 flasher wrasses. And later - much later - after all fish are in, a gold midas blenny. I realize this may be a heavy biological load, but w/ fuge (chaeto & red mangroves) and the algae in DT figured it'd be OK. I have lots of snails & pretty many small hermits.

Thanks for suggestions.

Although I personally have multiple large tanks, I too favor small fish. In general, I like your strategy but it is difficult to evaluate interactions of that many conspecifics.

[sassyfrassy]

Another question if you can answer: Will my already grown green ( 1") & Citron (1 1/2") gobies beat up new, probably smaller additions to their own species? My Citron & Green don't pay each other any attention, but my Citron stays in the water column or stuck to glass more & green is hopping all around rock work. They have both been in tank for almost 2 years.

BTW thanks for hanging out on this thread and helping - few others seem to want to.

[streetsong]

I posted a fish list about 1 month ago, but it has changed due to some further research I have done:
76 gal. half-circle
Lighting: AI Sol blue LED's- 2 modules.
Sump- 30 gal.
Filtration- 80 lbs. live rock, 70 lbs of aragonite sand, filter floss, carbon
Skimmer- Reef Octopus 6 (rated for tanks up to 150 gal.)
Clean-up crew- "Reef cleaners" snails
Tank plans: All sps corals

Fish list:
1 Foxface Lo
2 Percula Clowns
1 Blue-green Chromis
1 Melanarus Wrasse
1 Kole Tang
1 Midas Blenny
1 Royal Gramma

I appreciate your expertise and ideas!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by sassyfrassy

Another question if you can answer: Will my already grown green ( 1") & Citron (1 1/2") gobies beat up new, probably smaller additions to their own species? My Citron & Green don't pay each other any attention, but my Citron stays in the water column or stuck to glass more & green is hopping all around rock work. They have both been in tank for almost 2 years.

I do not anticipate any problems

BTW thanks for hanging out on this thread and helping - few others seem to want to.

You are most welcome. I feel an obligation to "give back" to the hobby.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by streetsong

I posted a fish list about 1 month ago, but it has changed due to some further research I have done:
76 gal. half-circle
Lighting: AI Sol blue LED's- 2 modules.
Sump- 30 gal.
Filtration- 80 lbs. live rock, 70 lbs of aragonite sand, filter floss, carbon
Skimmer- Reef Octopus 6 (rated for tanks up to 150 gal.)
Clean-up crew- "Reef cleaners" snails
Tank plans: All sps corals

Fish list:
1 Foxface Lo
2 Percula Clowns
1 Blue-green Chromis
1 Melanarus Wrasse
1 Kole Tang
1 Midas Blenny
1 Royal Gramma

I appreciate your expertise and ideas!

I think that two large fish is too much. I like each, pick one.

[streetsong]

Thanks, Snorvich. As far as large fish, I assume that you mean the Tang and the Foxface?

[M88A2]

This may have been asked in the thread before but there are 5300 posts so i thought asking would yield better results. I have a 75g tank currently cycling with a 20g sump. There is around 70ish lbs of rocks in the display with a few more pieces in the sump. The skimmer is a Reef Octopus NWB 110.

Here is my proposed stocking list
List1
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse
Linespot Flasher Wrasse
Blue Flasher Wrasse
Red Velvet Fairy Wasse
Orange-Black Fairy Wrasse
Red Head Solon Fairy Wrasse
Pink Margin Wrasse

or

List 2
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse
Linespot Flasher Wrasse
Red Velvet Fairy Wasse
Orange-Black Fairy Wrasse
Red Head Solon Fairy Wrasse
2 Ignitus anthias
Lubbock's Fairy wrasse or 2

Is this too much for my system to handle...I asked a LFS but I don't really trust them. Also if I keep more than one Lubbock's do I need to make sure it is a male/female combo?

[WetShepherd]

Two questions - current stock list at bottom, tank info in signature

1. Can I safely add a peppermint shrimp to my current stock list? I was once warned that the two cleaner shrimp I currently have might not tolerate (read:thunderdome) another shrimp in my size of tank.

2. Do I have room to add another fish comfortably? By comfortably I mean I never want to reach a 'heavy' load, nor to I want a crowded tank. I don't currently have plans to add another fish and I'm enjoying how much space they have to move around - I simply like knowing where my limit is

Thanks!


Stock List:
2 Ocellaris - generally very friendly
1. Eibl (red stripe) Dwarf Angel
1 Royal Gramma
1 Yellow Wrasse

2 Cleaner (skunk) shrimp
4 Turbo Snails
5 Nassarius Nails
Blue Leg Hermit Army

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by streetsong

Thanks, Snorvich. As far as large fish, I assume that you mean the Tang and the Foxface?

Yes, that is correct.