Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 01/02/2013, 05:45 AM   #1
sliggy382
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 92
Dead Damsel and Cycling

Would a dead damsel fish help cycle a new tank?
I always hear you can cycle a new tank with a shrimp from the grocery store by letting it rot in it.

Are any of these true?


sliggy382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 06:02 AM   #2
fishman1069
Registered Member
 
fishman1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: sound beach,NY
Posts: 62
Yes and yes. You basically need something thats gonna break down and feed the tank ammonia to start your bacteria


fishman1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 06:10 AM   #3
cramideas
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Hurricane WV
Posts: 70
Yelp it will help get it going, not that you want the fish to die but if it happens it wont hurt the process.


cramideas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 06:41 AM   #4
BAGGERZ13
Registered Member
 
BAGGERZ13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Harford County MD
Posts: 331
A lot of people think it's cruel to the fish to put it in there and have it die just to cycle the tank. There are a few different ways to do it without having to use a fish...


__________________
Tank Setup: RSM 130D

Current Tank Info: Red Sea Max 130D
BAGGERZ13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 08:18 AM   #5
heathlindner25
Moved On
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: flowery branch georgia
Posts: 3,644
I christen mine with alittle urine!


heathlindner25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 08:40 AM   #6
FTDelta
Moved On
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central NY
Posts: 1,124
Raw uncooked shrimp works as well.


FTDelta is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 11:09 AM   #7
reeferstace
I'm a little people
 
reeferstace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Over Yonder
Posts: 1,392
It is ethically wrong to cycle a tank with a live fish. Please use a different source for your nitrogenous waste.


__________________
Stacy
reeferstace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 11:29 AM   #8
cloak
Moved On
 
cloak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 14,854
If you don't want to use a piece of shrimp to cycle your tank, I'm sure your LFS would have no problem handing over a dead fish. They should be checking their tanks every morning for these.


cloak is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 11:36 AM   #9
wooden_reefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,670
I won't use dead whole fish as it make carry some parasite or undesirable bacteria esp inside the digestive tract of fish died from diseases.

Best protein source for decade is a shrimp, or some fish flesh from a large fish, I tend to think.


wooden_reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 11:40 AM   #10
wooden_reefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by heathlindner25 View Post
I christen mine with alittle urine!
The disadvantage of urine is quantity of ammonia unknown.

If I plan to do a 100% water change and cycle in a small container, I just urinate in it. Nitrite could be over 30 ppm, I don't care.

But if you plan to retain the water you cycle with, a known amount of ammonia is better. You won't "age" the water excessively. Just enough one or two shots of ammonia well timed is best.


wooden_reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 11:52 AM   #11
sponger0
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 6,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAGGERZ13 View Post
A lot of people think it's cruel to the fish to put it in there and have it die just to cycle the tank. There are a few different ways to do it without having to use a fish...
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeferstace View Post
It is ethically wrong to cycle a tank with a live fish. Please use a different source for your nitrogenous waste.
The OP didnt say use a fish and kill it. He said use a dead fish. I think you read that wrong.

Yeah you read that wrong too lmao


sponger0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 12:07 PM   #12
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
You don't need ANYTHING. the dieoff in your live rock is completely sufficient. REmember what you're encouraging is microscopic: you won't see it. If you can't stand adding nothing at all, add enough flake fishfood daily to feed one guppy (one flake), and STILL expect a cycle of 4-8 weeks. You simply cannot get bacteria to propagate clear to the core of the rock in less time than that, and if you rush it, you can crash the tank.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 01:04 PM   #13
wooden_reefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
You don't need ANYTHING. the dieoff in your live rock is completely sufficient. REmember what you're encouraging is microscopic: you won't see it. If you can't stand adding nothing at all, add enough flake fishfood daily to feed one guppy (one flake), and STILL expect a cycle of 4-8 weeks. You simply cannot get bacteria to propagate clear to the core of the rock in less time than that, and if you rush it, you can crash the tank.
There may or may not be enough dieoff. If the rock had been in the LFS submerged for a week before you bought it and the decay had happened at the LFS, there will be very little ammonia.

If the tank stinks very much you can be sure enough decay is happening; otherwise, there may well not be enough ammonia to cycle esp for many fish.

Plus, the whole idea of using decay from dead lives from LR to cycle is senseless; there are alternatives.


wooden_reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 01:14 PM   #14
wooden_reefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
You don't need ANYTHING. the dieoff in your live rock is completely sufficient. REmember what you're encouraging is microscopic: you won't see it. If you can't stand adding nothing at all, add enough flake fishfood daily to feed one guppy (one flake), and STILL expect a cycle of 4-8 weeks. You simply cannot get bacteria to propagate clear to the core of the rock in less time than that, and if you rush it, you can crash the tank.
Nitrification is highly aerobic so only the sites near the more oxygenated areas will nitrification bacteria live.

"bacteria propagating to the core of LR" is not a part of cycling.

Cycling is nitrification only, not denitrification. Such is the definition and also has a reason. This is NOT to say that denitrification is not important, it is in the longer term.

You can introduce some fish when nitrification is complete, even if you have a basically reef tank in mind, even when denitrification is not yet well established.

The comprehesive ecological perspective has more bearing on long term maintenance.

If your interest is a reef tanlk with only a few small fish, you may consider long term ecological balance as more pressing.

Having nitrification and some livestock before denitrification is robust will not crash a tank. I 'd agree that if your interest is a reef tank you should not add too much livestock quickly.


wooden_reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 01:38 PM   #15
wooden_reefer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,670
In this hobby, it can be a mental handicap to always think of comprehesive ecological balance, nitrification and denitrification.

This is true especially in QT of fish. Nitrate is harmless to fish at concentration commonly encountered. There is much utility in nitrification alone without denitrification. Thus, LR is a poor medium of filtration in QT.

One should not think of ecology in a QT.

In a DT, ecology is of course of great long term significance, but one also should consider the timing of the correctness of the comprehesive ecological perspective.


wooden_reefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 03:07 PM   #16
MrTuskfish
Registered Member
 
MrTuskfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Wild Blue Yonder
Posts: 8,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooden_reefer View Post
In this hobby, it can be a mental handicap to always think of comprehesive ecological balance, nitrification and denitrification.

This is true especially in QT of fish. Nitrate is harmless to fish at concentration commonly encountered. There is much utility in nitrification alone without denitrification. Thus, LR is a poor medium of filtration in QT.

One should not think of ecology in a QT.

In a DT, ecology is of course of great long term significance, but one also should consider the timing of the correctness of the comprehesive ecological perspective.
Damn! That's just what i was going to say!


__________________
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.


Steve

Current Tank Info: 180, 2-240 FOWLRs, 240 reef
MrTuskfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 07:21 PM   #17
sliggy382
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger0 View Post
The OP didnt say use a fish and kill it. He said use a dead fish. I think you read that wrong.

Yeah you read that wrong too lmao

Thanks Sponger--you saved me the time of saying that LOL
As I stated, the fish was dead already; I didn't kill it.


sliggy382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 08:25 PM   #18
reeferstace
I'm a little people
 
reeferstace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Over Yonder
Posts: 1,392
My apologies to the OP since I misinterpreted what was said. Sorry.


__________________
Stacy
reeferstace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 08:26 PM   #19
CoasterOfLuv
Registered Member
 
CoasterOfLuv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: S.W Florida
Posts: 14
I had both my 75 and my 30 running for a week before I put a Damsel in which is still pretty soon and neither died. You're tank would IMO have to be very unprepared to kill a damsel and thats kinda cruel


CoasterOfLuv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/02/2013, 09:55 PM   #20
sleepydoc
Registered Member
 
sleepydoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 3,907
+1 on using another source besides the damsel. it would certainly work, but the last thing you want to do is introduce velvet or some other nasty disease.


__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting
sleepydoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/03/2013, 05:58 AM   #21
sliggy382
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeferstace View Post
My apologies to the OP since I misinterpreted what was said. Sorry.
No worries, I appreciate the input


sliggy382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01/03/2013, 06:03 AM   #22
sliggy382
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoasterOfLuv View Post
I had both my 75 and my 30 running for a week before I put a Damsel in which is still pretty soon and neither died. You're tank would IMO have to be very unprepared to kill a damsel and thats kinda cruel
I or my tank didn't kill it. When I purchased it from the LPS I noticed it wasn't swimming right in the bag when I got to the checkout. I think when they got it from the tank at the LPS, they must have squished it or something. It was dead by the time I got home. I didn't say anything to the employees, I just took it home hoping it would survive. I probably should have just gotten another one before I paid for it.

I was hoping for the best though... :?


sliggy382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.