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Old 11/04/2015, 11:00 AM   #2176
Billybatz9
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Originally Posted by Budman422 View Post
When I had dinos I could take and put it in another tank . The other tank had no dinos and it would disapeare. I still believe it is an imbalance and lack of diversity. I am dino free in my tank for about 11 months. I do water changes once a month. But I do not run gfo or carbon anymore. I also still feed heavy.
Do you skim wet? Do you run anything? Any algae from feeding heavy? Explain how you feed heavy, and do you dose phytoplankton?


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Old 11/04/2015, 11:02 AM   #2177
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Originally Posted by DNA View Post
Yes. It's a rollercoster and I don't recommend it.
SPS will suffer with no growth for a very long time, then grow some then die back, often to 1% of the original size.

A single small frag is alright for measuring the conditions for SPS.
Have you been dino free? Or still battling?

Have you done any blackouts with sps? How did they do? What about h202 doses?


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Old 11/04/2015, 11:36 AM   #2178
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[quote name="Budman422" post=24100418]When I had dinos I could take and put it in another tank . The other tank had no dinos and it would disapeare. I still believe it is an imbalance and lack of diversity. I am dino free in my tank for about 11 months. I do water changes once a month. But I do not run gfo or carbon anymore. I also still feed heavy.[/QUOTE]



Do you skim wet? Do you run anything? Any algae from feeding heavy? Explain how you feed heavy, and do you dose phytoplankton?


I have returned to normal skimming not wet. I have a 125 with only 7 fish with most of those being small. As far as feeding it looks like a snowstorm in the tank 1 to 2 times a day flake and frozen up to 5 cubes a day. I have very little algea in the display. And change about 25 gallons a month. I do run a 20 gallon fuge full of cheato and calurpa that I got from several different tanks. I think that helped with diversity. I also run kalkwasser through an ato for all top off. This was a 3 year + battle that I did not think I would win.


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Old 11/04/2015, 05:36 PM   #2179
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Originally Posted by robertifly View Post
dcforestr1, I read back in this thread where Ivy stated some strains of dino requires 8 days blackout. I did the full 8 days covered up tight, no feeding and ran skimmer wet which after 3rd day the skimming dropped off drastically. I fed fish very well for over a week before I blackout tank they all were fine after 8 days without feeding. Also have three green bubble 3 gbt anemones that made it just fine, all I lost was dino. I lost no corals, just dinosaur for 9 days now.
And if I'd known you had anemones I'd have said Noooooooo don't do it! Lol.


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 11/04/2015, 05:50 PM   #2180
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I lost a RBTA, a condy anemone and a sarcophyton soft coral after 3 and a half days lights out. Though I'm not sure it was the lights out itself or low oxygen levels because my tank is cube shaped (bad volume to water surface ratio)... It has three powerheads (2x900litres/hour and one 1600litres/hour) and 13 gallons volume but the powerheads have nylon socks around them (for anemone safety) so efficiency is reduced.
If I recall correctly you were dosing phyto? Did you add pods? Your tank is small enough that a cup of live sand from someone might really kick start the ecology. What's your nitrate/phosphate like?

You know your cyanobacteria; will Calothrix spp stain alcohol red? User here had visual/behavioural dinoflagellates that turned out to be microscopically no such thing.

Spirulina's a common 'health' additive to drinks and other foods here. It tastes terrible.

ivy


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 11/04/2015, 08:27 PM   #2181
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Has anyone tried dosing kent tech m magnesium to get rid of dinoflagellates? Supposedly, it kills bryopsis


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Old 11/05/2015, 04:00 AM   #2182
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
If I recall correctly you were dosing phyto? Did you add pods? Your tank is small enough that a cup of live sand from someone might really kick start the ecology. What's your nitrate/phosphate like?

You know your cyanobacteria; will Calothrix spp stain alcohol red? User here had visual/behavioural dinoflagellates that turned out to be microscopically no such thing.

Spirulina's a common 'health' additive to drinks and other foods here. It tastes terrible.

ivy
The Phyto culture isn't ready yet. At the moment I'm feeding frozen Artemia and fish flake food (spirulina algae are an ingredient) three times than normal. My phosphate test is out of date and my Nitrate test shows no Nitrate but I dont trust it because I'm heavily feeding. Since I need another powerhead because in my oppinion, the stream in the tank is a bit weak(there are in fact some dead zones), I will buy new tests too.

When the last outbreak occurred I added two pounds of live rock into the tank because I thought the amount of live rock is little bit too small for that tank size, but at the end the new live rock had no (visible) positive effect on the outbreak. The rocks were overgrown by dinos in a few hours...

Sorry I don't know the exactly specification of that cyanos that appeared after the last dino outbreak, but yes I did the alcohol test and yes it stained the alcohol red.
A week ago when the first dinos appeared I tested again and the result was negative, no cyanos in the samples.

I'm not 100% sure but I think today the color of the dinos that grow on the glas has some green in it, hopefully these are some green algae.

These spirulina cocktails must be yummy, I have some spirulina powder and some red cyanobacteria stained strong alcohol right here, maybe I'll mix myself a drink. Cheers! Just joking!

Sincerely, Dennis



Last edited by Kazalla; 11/05/2015 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 11/05/2015, 04:42 PM   #2183
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My 180g tank has some dinos surfacing. I just added an ats 5 days ago and I was debating dosing some peroxide. Is that a bad idea with the ats? Not sure what type of dinos they are so I'm not even sure if h202 will work.


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Old 11/05/2015, 08:52 PM   #2184
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The hydrogen peroxide is more likely to hurt fish and corals than algae, unless you're considering a spot application.


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Old 11/06/2015, 03:40 AM   #2185
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Should I run the ats for a bit and see if the algae can outcompete the dinos or do a blackout?


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Old 11/06/2015, 02:57 PM   #2186
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Should I run the ats for a bit and see if the algae can outcompete the dinos or do a blackout?
Wait. Peroxide is commonly dosed to kill algae. Have you managed to get algae established on the scrubber? If you blackout the main tank with a lighted ats you may wind up attracting all the dinos to the screen. A dinoflagellate scrubber would be super effective at removing nutrients but not so great otherwise. Keep us updated please, I don't think anybody's tried an ats vs dinos.

Ivy


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Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 11/06/2015, 03:02 PM   #2187
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Originally Posted by Kazalla View Post

I'm not 100% sure but I think today the color of the dinos that grow on the glas has some green in it, hopefully these are some green algae.
VERY good sign!

Quote:
These spirulina cocktails must be yummy, I have some spirulina powder and some red cyanobacteria stained strong alcohol right here, maybe I'll mix myself a drink. Cheers! Just joking!
I think you've officially created a new cocktail. We'll call it the Kazalla (dino)Sour.. Is Goldschlager German? It would even have little dino-like flakes. *ducking and running*

hth
ivy (Palytoxin drinking games =bad idea)


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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates.

Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15
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Old 11/06/2015, 05:57 PM   #2188
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scrubber - few pages back...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...postcount=1861

I think it's a viable strategy as long as the flow is very high.


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Old 11/07/2015, 01:06 AM   #2189
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Today I can say these are indeed green algae growing on the glas and power heads. There are also some cyanobacteria growing on the glas. Now things are getting interesting. Corals and anemones are expanded and looking quite healthy today. Skimmer is on and skimming dry, I'll keep heavy feeding. There are a few Munnid isopods (feeding on green algae on the glas) visible, so I don't need to reintroduce them to the tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
I think you've officially created a new cocktail. We'll call it the Kazalla (dino)Sour.. Is Goldschlager German? It would even have little dino-like flakes. *ducking and running*
I'm honored. No, its from the Switzerland, now produced in Italy. I thought I created something Bloody Mary-like but without the celery . The consistency of the dino foam on the water surface remembers me of Guiness beer...

Sincerely, Dennis

EDIT: I've to say a few weeks ago there were hundreds of these Munnid Isopods because I don't remove green algae from the backside glas of the tank. Now only a few are visible, don't know what happened to the others if they are hiding or dead. I thought this might help keeping a healthy fauna in the tank, maybe I had made a mistake...



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Old 11/09/2015, 06:38 PM   #2190
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I wonder if anyone with a turf algae scrubber has dinos??

That would be an interesting datapoint.
I took my waterfall-style algae scrubber offline last Wednesday because the damn thing kept breaking. Screen kept tearing, falling out slightly, and causing the spray bar to send water everywhere. It never grew a large amount of algae anyway - I was only cleaning it every two or three weeks and the good green growth was always fairly minor compared to brown/tan sludgy stuff. Five days later and what do I find in my tank but a dino outbreak

I have no idea if the two are connected but the only other thing I've started in the last five days is feeding newly-hatched baby brine shrimp. I'm still getting practiced at separating the napulii from the shells so some shells probably got in my tank but I seriously doubt that'd cause dinos to start showing up...right?


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Old 11/09/2015, 07:41 PM   #2191
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I don't think a few brine shrimp shells are going to be an issue.


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Old 11/10/2015, 03:58 PM   #2192
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I took my waterfall-style algae scrubber offline last Wednesday because the damn thing kept breaking. Screen kept tearing, falling out slightly, and causing the spray bar to send water everywhere. It never grew a large amount of algae anyway - I was only cleaning it every two or three weeks and the good green growth was always fairly minor compared to brown/tan sludgy stuff. Five days later and what do I find in my tank but a dino outbreak

I have no idea if the two are connected but the only other thing I've started in the last five days is feeding newly-hatched baby brine shrimp. I'm still getting practiced at separating the napulii from the shells so some shells probably got in my tank but I seriously doubt that'd cause dinos to start showing up...right?
Very interesting - was your scrubber healthy (thick green growth) and then deteriorated ending with the dino outbreak?

The sequence of events and a detailed timeline is really important here. Please share more.


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Old 11/12/2015, 12:36 PM   #2193
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I don't think there's much to tell other than what I already posted. The ATS was online for ~9 months. As I said it wasn't growing much healthy green algae. As a result I don't believe it really did very much for me - I experienced both red turf algae and bryopsis in that time period. God only knows how on either since I try to be scrupulous about re-plugging frags and QT before adding anything. It may be that a dino outbreak is a total coincidence, although I hadn't changed anything for about a month before the outbreak other than taking the ATS offline.


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Old 11/12/2015, 02:23 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy View Post
Wait. Peroxide is commonly dosed to kill algae. Have you managed to get algae established on the scrubber? If you blackout the main tank with a lighted ats you may wind up attracting all the dinos to the screen. A dinoflagellate scrubber would be super effective at removing nutrients but not so great otherwise. Keep us updated please, I don't think anybody's tried an ats vs dinos.

Ivy
I have my UV output going straight into my ATS screen and then the water passed through purigen, 2x chemipure, cuprisorb, and seachem denitrate into a refugium full of pods and chaeto. Haven't seen dinos since stocking my tank full of pods so I can't really comment on the ATS's effectiveness other than it's been very effective at keeping nitrates down and alge on the ATS rather than in the DT.

Picture shows a newly harvested screen. I have to do this each week as the growth of fluffy green algae completely covers the screen (I have bulbs on both sides). Yet, my NO3 stays within a good 2.5 - 5 range.




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Old 11/12/2015, 03:05 PM   #2195
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In my tank I see a very predictable response:

-0 nitrates 0 phosphates= really happy dinos, nothing else at all grows
-low nitrates no phosphates=tiny cyano (it's cheating somehow) and dinos
-low nitrates low phosphates=dinos are dying back noticably, cyano bloom continues but starting to see diatoms and green slime on the glass. Chaeto starts growing again.
-nitrates over 1, phosphate .03=only green algae and diatoms on glass, dinos not visible in tank altho persist under microscope samples off filter

I'm not doing anything about the cyano, for me it's a good sign, that I need to keep increasing my N/P. Well, I do siphon it out.

I'd wait on the water change if I were you! Cyano is ugly but really it's a good sign. You want the green algae to be firmly enough established that they're getting all the nutrients in the tank.


Oh and I totally agree about the benefits of sandbed microfauna. Nobody ships to Canada. If you hear of a source pm me and I'll make them rich.

ivy
PS here's a picture. Looks bad eh? The white arrow is pointing to GREEN stuff on the glass, which only shows up when nutrients go up enough for the cyano bloom. That coral's on the sandbed because I thought it was a Duncan. I now think it may be an elegance..
[IMG][/IMG]
Thanks IVy. I read this last week when you posted it and have been watching my tank every day since. And your post has been sooooo helpful and keeping me sane the whole time. Just now having a chance to post!

- So for the last few weeks no visible sign of Dino's anywhere!!

- And right in line with what you and others are saying i noticed both a cyano bloom and other green algae blooming.

- UnfortunAtely I haven't had a chance to test nitrates or phosphate but it's on my list..

- while the cyano is threatening to get out of control at times I'm LOVING the green algae. I have this stuff on some rocks and sand that is such a beautiful green color and never seen before. And it doesn't seem to be getting bad. Just holding and existing and giving me a new appreciation for Tank balance (vs my old ideas of total clean tank). Seeing this green algae makes me feel like my tank is healthy. Still have to watch and occasionally siphon out cyano.

- I think i mentioned I spent a good deal of $$$ on a refresher from IPSF: bunches of snails and worms that I think we're a bit decimated by the Dino's.

- I've stopped the over feeding and have even skipped a day here or there. Have turned simmer back on. But haven't performed any water changes yet. Waiting to perform the aforementioned tests first.

- oh when the cyano was getting bad I also ran some carbon which had immediate improvements to Water clarity but also knocked down the cyano a lot. It improved so much I stopped it for awhile for fear of becoming too clean.

Now the past few days I've been dealing with a layer if film on the top of my water. Nothing was changed with my flow and it goes away temporarily when I turn on an extra power head. But assuming this has something to do with the process maybe? I turned on the extra power head and cleaned the skimmer last night. Will be very curious to see if it's there when I get home tonight.

So that's the update. Thanks again for all of you and this hobby saving thread! I'm thinking of starting a count at the end of each post "x days clean and Dino-free!"


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Old 11/13/2015, 09:08 AM   #2196
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Something to add to my post right above.....
I found this old picture of my first battle with Dinos almost two years ago. Hmmm, think I had them pretty bad and let them get out of control juuuuuuust a bit??




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Old 11/13/2015, 10:08 AM   #2197
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Old 11/13/2015, 11:39 AM   #2198
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@Bryan when my dinos looked like on your 2 years old photo they were defeated and huge amounts of nematodes were feeding on the whitish dinoslime.
I have that dino layer on the water surface too, I'm removing it daily with a small Hand net.

Now to my report: Not all snails are dead, there are even young ones I think these are Euplica sp. . The tank glass is covered with green algae and bristle worms, other worms, snails and pods are feeding on them. I added 12 hermit crabs (clibanarius tricolor). I keep heavy feeding but the skimmer is on and running (dry). Changing water is still a no-no. Corals and anemones are open and looking quite healthy. Dinos are on the gorgonians, the water surface, the powerheads, the upper half of the reef glass and some on the top of the reef (on top of the live rock tower). There are no dinos on the chaeto algae anymore and the chaeto begins to grow again . What I see: the dino plague has wandered from the lower parts of my tank into the upper part, hope this is a good sign.

Sincerely, Dennis


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Old 11/13/2015, 12:38 PM   #2199
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Anyone use a sea hare before? I have read of some people using sea hares for dinos and sometimes they eat it. Just a thought.

Or gladiator conchs?


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Old 11/13/2015, 03:37 PM   #2200
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I don't believe that any sea hare will eat dinoflagellates, but I've been surprised before. I suppose a starving sea hare might in theory ingest a lot of things. They might disturb the dinoflagellates while looking for something to eat, which might be good enough.


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