N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[tntneon]

Originally posted by buddah001
Are these available here in the states. If so where?

-The pellets will be in a month in the stores in europe , Jptenkloosters also mentioned that outside europe it will be a little bit longer (how much longer he didn`t mention).

The results are still very good .
The GHA is now covered with cyano , it looks like cyano is the thoughest of all the bad algea , and in a desperate queste for NO3/ PO4 , it`s attacking the GHA , i think ?
any opinions regarding my thought here ?

If the GHA disappears and cyano would shortly follow this would be a very good thing , because even with normal vodka dosing i didn`t seem to do any harm to the GHA.

Chaeto isn`t that great , it`s still green , but it has come more dense and it is growing alot slower than 2 weeks ago
something i whitnessed with vodka too.
to low nutrients for the macro ?

greetingzz tntneon

[HighlandReefer]

The cyano is tougher than most algae in that it can derive its needed P directly from organic matter. Probably the algae is dieing off and the cyano is feeding on the decaying algae.

IME, the cyano will persist until the organic build-up from the dieing algae is removed from your water column. In other words, removing as much of the algae and cyano from your water column will increase the rate you acheive control of both the algae and cyano.

Do you believe the bacterial population in your aquarium water column is less than that found when dosing vodka?

[tntneon]

In my first observations, i would think so .
While previously dosing vodka i saw more slimery strings (bacterial )on the rock .
But i have to mention that i was dosing pure ethanol at a rate of
0.4ml/25g ( a fairly high dosage) , and i found it hard to dose this daily and correct.

The third or forth day i had the pellets in my system , i saw a little bit of slimery string appearing on the rock , but now i see non.
water clarity is great (beter than ever), and i hope that the cyano will leave the system soon after they eaten the GHA .
And sometimes i can wait 3 day to clean glass , sometimes 2 days.
hopefully this could be extended to 4 or 5 day clean , then i would be really happy , i love reefing but cleaning the glass is not my favorite thing to do

greetingzz tntneon

[tntneon]

I had the change again to measure my phosphorus on a lab icp.
they have dropped to 0.01 ppm organic and inorganic P , NO3 is about 0.1 ppm on the salifert kit.
I syphoned the cyanos`s from the dying GHA , it `s realy cool that i now can syphon them both off .
I had a little bit of cyano back on the sand as well .
Hopefully the pellets won`t fuel the cyano`s (as they are bacteria to )?

water clarity and coral coloration is very good as well growth rates.


greetingzz tntneon

[tatuvaaj]

tntneon,

Great news!

I moved the pellets from canister filter to a media bag. I think it's easier that way. I also got my new skimmer, finally!

I'm now using less than half vodka+sugar mix I did before and I'm already seeing nitrates dropping closer to zero. Unfortunately I still have a lot of phosphates, I think I'm going to add some GFO to get PO4 concentration down.

[erbio]

Perhaps you should only use the pellets and see how fast the levels drop? That would help tremendously. If I can see that this product works I plan to purchase a good amount and sell it in the states at no profit. I think this product could be huge if it works well.

Originally posted by tatuvaaj
tntneon,

Great news!

I moved the pellets from canister filter to a media bag. I think it's easier that way. I also got my new skimmer, finally!

I'm now using less than half vodka+sugar mix I did before and I'm already seeing nitrates dropping closer to zero. Unfortunately I still have a lot of phosphates, I think I'm going to add some GFO to get PO4 concentration down.

[tatuvaaj]

Originally posted by erbio
Perhaps you should only use the pellets and see how fast the levels drop? That would help tremendously. If I can see that this product works I plan to purchase a good amount and sell it in the states at no profit. I think this product could be huge if it works well.

erbio,

I might do that in future but currently I don't have enough pellets. The amount I use was chosen with the DOC dosing in mind. My goal was to reduce the dosing as I had to add quite large amounts (20+ ml/day) to keep the nutrients in check... I still think some DOC dosing can benefit at least some filter feeders like sponges.

But maybe I'm wrong and producing bacterioplankton is more beneficial than feeding the symbiotic bacteria inside sponges?

[tntneon]

Originally posted by tatuvaaj
tntneon,

Great news!

I moved the pellets from canister filter to a media bag. I think it's easier that way. I also got my new skimmer, finally!

I'm now using less than half vodka+sugar mix I did before and I'm already seeing nitrates dropping closer to zero. Unfortunately I still have a lot of phosphates, I think I'm going to add some GFO to get PO4 concentration down.

a good skimmer is essential , good luck with the new one.
last week i putted my DIY skimmer as well as a new DIY sump under my display , not that my old one was bad , but i couldn`t resist the urge to built me a larger one myself .
I have 2 hobby`s reefing and DIY reef stuff making...





Tatuvaaj ,
You sad that the po4 is quite high , how high may i ask ?
Do you have algea or did you have them ?

"...maybe I'm wrong and producing bacterioplankton is more beneficial than feeding the symbiotic bacteria ..."

I think so too , and this is an effect i`m already seeying on the corals , my stylopora and acropora are looking more colorfull and more PE than ever , this will be the result of bacterioplancton i think .

with me the media bag cloged after 2 days , thus decreasing the flow through the media
I like it more now , in the display drain box .

greetingzz tntneon

[tatuvaaj]

Originally posted by tntneon
a good skimmer is essential , good luck with the new one.

I've had the new foam machine a week now and it is the best I've had, ATB Medium.

last week i putted my DIY skimmer as well as a new DIY sump under my display , not that my old one was bad , but i couldn`t resist the urge to built me a larger one myself

Very nice! I'm not so good with DIY myself

You sad that the po4 is quite high , how high may i ask ?

Extremely high, 0.1 ppm PO4 and about 2 ppm NO3

Do you have algea or did you have them ?

That's the strangest thing! I did not have any algae problems. I was actually so curious about this that I started to dose some extra iron but couldn't produce any major algae growth

But things happen fast here: like I said I moved the Biopellets from the canister filter to a media bag inside sump. This effectively cleaned all bacteria from the pellets (a lot!) that I allowed to flow into the display tank.

This morning I decided to check the water parameters again and much to my surprise almost all my nutrient problems had vanished. Now I have < 0.02 ppm PO4 and < 0.2 ppm NO3! I must say that is very impressive result! Water was also noticeably clearer.

I'll see how it goes for a couple of days and then I'll start to reduce the DOC dosing again to find out just how much DOC the Biopellets can replace.

[tntneon]

-Sounds very intresting
With me it`s been quite the opposite , low nutrients but always some sort of algea that i have to keep an eye on, never had any massive outbreaks luckly .
GHA is now the longest with me , even with previous carbon dosing it would stay .
This is the reason i wanted to try this methode.

greetingzz tntneon

[TheDogFather]

Sounds like synthetic Zeolites. If the cost of this product is 120 Euros ($177) per liter per year, it is still quite a bit more expensive than an actual Zeolite ($15/Liter for Zeovit's Zeolites for example) when replaced every six weeks...

What makes this product better for the increased cost over traditional Zeolites besides that it has to be replaced less frequently?

Thanks!

-TDF

[kaskiles]

Originally posted by TheDogFather
What makes this product better for the increased cost over traditional Zeolites besides that it has to be replaced less frequently?

1. The organic carbon is embedded in the media, so you do not have to dose vodka, glucose, etc. This eliminates tricky daily dosing regimes, and/or expensive sophisticated dosing equipment. Also, overdosing would not be possible.

2. Since the organic carbon is embedded in the media, and is not water soluble/miscible; it cannot travel out into the tank water and feed bacteria growing in other places (mats on rocks, diseases on fish and corals).

3. The media probably does not absorb Potassium, and other inorganic materials, like Zeolites. Possibly avoiding extra dosing additives and trace elements.

4. The media should not be friable, so if it is fluidized in an up-flowing media reactor, it should not release mineral fines into the display tank that can settle out on coral surfaces (possibly irritating them).

A drawback may be that the Zeolites might be better at bacterial denitrification.

[liver]

Originally posted by TheDogFather
Sounds like synthetic Zeolites. If the cost of this product is 120 Euros ($177) per liter per year, it is still quite a bit more expensive than an actual Zeolite ($15/Liter for Zeovit's Zeolites for example) when replaced every six weeks...

What makes this product better for the increased cost over traditional Zeolites besides that it has to be replaced less frequently?

Thanks!

-TDF

It appears that this product replaces more then just the zeolites, it replaces a good part of that system or at least the part that gets you to ULNS. Also, I think your doses are not comparable a liter of this doesn't equal 1 liter of zeolite.

? for jean paul do you need to add bacteria every so often like with zeo and prohibo or because the bacteria live on the carbon food source this isn't necessary?

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by liver

It appears that this product replaces more then just the zeolites, it replaces a good part of that system or at least the part that gets you to ULNS. Also, I think your doses are not comparable a liter of this doesn't equal 1 liter of zeolite.

? for jean paul do you need to add bacteria every so often like with zeo and prohibo or because the bacteria live on the carbon food source this isn't necessary?

Hi liver ,
I asked JP on the local forum the question you asked here (he`s probably very busy now, to read all his posts).
He answered that the pellets do not need any suplemental dosings of bacteria and/or others.
He pointed out that this was one of the big advantages , less dosing and the same result .

greetingzz tntneon

[McSassy]

Originally Posted by tntneon

here`s the situation now...



Now i`m gonna post if i see any changes , water clarity is a little
bit beter perhaps then yesterday , but it is way to soon to do some evaluations.

greetingzz tntneon

Looks like you have it soundproofed as well. Does that create any additional heat in the tank? How well does it absorb the noises from the tank as well?

[jptenklooster]

Originally Posted by liver

It appears that this product replaces more then just the zeolites, it replaces a good part of that system or at least the part that gets you to ULNS. Also, I think your doses are not comparable a liter of this doesn't equal 1 liter of zeolite.

? for jean paul do you need to add bacteria every so often like with zeo and prohibo or because the bacteria live on the carbon food source this isn't necessary?

no addition of extra bacteria are required. the source of bacteria for the pellets are the bacteria that you introduce in your tank through life-rock.

Regarding zeoliet, I think this and previous comments are correct and clear enough.

regards,

jp

[tntneon]

Originally Posted by McSassy

Looks like you have it soundproofed as well. Does that create any additional heat in the tank? How well does it absorb the noises from the tank as well?

honestly , not so much
like you can see on my lastest picture , i removed the sound insulation...

greetingzz tntneon

[tmz]

Hi Tatu. Certainly sounds convenient but how do we know the carbon source in the ploymer beads are not miscible and will not simply diffuse through the system like ethanol.,etc. Wouldn't a carbon reactor do much the same thing in terms of segregating the organic carbon and bacteria?

[tatuvaaj]

Tom,

I can only report that all signs seem to indicate that no (or insignificant amounts of) DOC is leached from the pellets. I reduced my vodka+sugar dosing to less than half and bacterial growth on surfaces has declined greatly (as you would expect).

The pellets themselves are insoluble and very hard.

[tmz]

Thanks, Tatu

[erbio]

Any updates guys?

[tntneon]

Things are pretty the same with me .

Water is very clear and waterparameters are stable, no3=0.2 and po4=0.
But GHA is still present in my display as is cyano who covers it , from time to time i syphon them away.
Sometimes the sand has a little bit of cyano too , this was something i was experiencing too with liquid carbon dosing (vodka or wodka).
I do have less bacterial strings (almost none) in my display then with original vodka dosing.
that`s the evidence for my , that the pellets don`t dissolve

coloration and PE are great and never seen before in my system.

I hope , some reefers here on RC can soon test those pellets too.
They could bring in more info then i ever can , with a better understanding of the englisch language (<--- you see).

greetingzz tntneon

[thejuggernaut]

Im wondering what something like this would do for someone who is running a fish only tank that doesnt have alot of live rock. I know they are frowned upon by alot of people but a Wet/Dry or Fluidized sand bed followed inline by some of these pellets might be a winning combination for a FO tank.

[kaskiles]

I'd think they would be a replacement for the wet/dry and fluidized sand filters. Mostly because I think they are a substrate for aerobic bacteria, like the wet/dry and fluidized sand. You would use them like the wet/dry or fluidized sand, and their advantage over bio-balls and fluffy sand would be their ability to feed organic carbon to the attached heterotrophic bacteria they are hosting.

[tmz]

If the pellets are an organic carbon source which I believe they are. it would be of benefit to heterotrophic bacteria. Autotrophs don't need organic carbon and do fine with CO2.