My New Hairy Horse

[steelcaveman]

I had no intentions of getting a seahorse today, but I have a hard time saying no to big hair!
The LFS assured me that it was captive bred.
What kind is it??

[rayjay]

Sorry but I'm not confident enough to be able to tell you for sure what species it is.
However, for your seahorses, sake, it would have been best to do some research first, to find the needs best suited for your seahorses success.
Number one thing to be concerned about in a reef tank is stinging corals.
Number two, is the possibility of stress due to faster moving fish and fish outcompeteting the seahorse for food. Sometimes stress can cause the seahorse to just stop eating.
Another factor will the possibility of the bacteria in the reef overcoming the seahorse natural immune system.
Some starting reading from my site can be found HERE
As for the CIRI attached to the seahorse, they may disappear in time when kept in an aquarium.

[steelcaveman]

Originally Posted by rayjay

Sorry but I'm not confident enough to be able to tell you for sure what species it is.
However, for your seahorses, sake, it would have been best to do some research first, to find the needs best suited for your seahorses success.
Number one thing to be concerned about in a reef tank is stinging corals.
Number two, is the possibility of stress due to faster moving fish and fish outcompeteting the seahorse for food. Sometimes stress can cause the seahorse to just stop eating.
Another factor will the possibility of the bacteria in the reef overcoming the seahorse natural immune system.
Some starting reading from my site can be found HERE
As for the CIRI attached to the seahorse, they may disappear in time when kept in an aquarium.

THE SEAHORSE POLICE ARE NOT WELCOME ON THIS THREAD!!!
Time to bust the seahorse police.

What other aggressive fish do you see with this seahorse???
What stinging corals do you see in this pic???

I don't recall a request for a link to your blog!
For fun I read it. And yes, you are not academically qualified to be dissing others.

I do know what kind of seahorse it is.
If you were an expert on seahorses you would be able to identify this seahorse easily, instead you chose the path of disparaging comments.

The seahorse is a good 5 inches tall and has so much ciri that I felt it worthy to share with others on this forum.

FYI: My other seahorses are doing great and are eagerly awaiting their new 90 gallon home. I have over 30 years of experience in the fish hobby, which may be a bad thing in the world of the seahorse police.

[ChadTheSpike]

wow, that is a strong response. It appears you may be in the vast minority of posters here, and you may know what you are getting in to with the seahorses. Most need the basic guidance that rayjay provided, I do no think it was intended to be anything but helpful.

That being said, seahorses with cirri are beautiful to me and I enjoyed your picture, thanks for sharing. Like rayjay, I too am not positive on identification, the seahorse appears young.

[whipit]

I have been planning a pony tank for the last several months and it is very exciting.
good luck with him he is beautiful. I have found a lot of wonderful info here on tank mates compatible corals just all around great info http://www.seahorse.org/ he kinda of looks like an erectus?? what ever he is I am sure he has a wonderrful new home.

[steelcaveman]

My response is a bit over the top.
I have seen very knowledgeable and successful reefers stop their participation in forums due to fish police.
For me fish and coral are a passion more so than a hobby.
Regardless - if it isn't a fun experience, it isn't worth my time.

This will be the Shak of seahorses if it is young.
The story is that she did not pair off with a male for breeding, so here she is.
The owner was pretty happy that she was going to a good home.

[rayjay]

First, let me apologize if I have offended you with my post as it certainly was not intended to be offensive but rather informative.
From your previous posts, you had mentioned LPS corals of which many are stinging but then again, I don't know that you have any of the stinging corals in that tank.
You have been fortunate, as some hobbyists have in that you can keep the clownfish in with your reidi seahorses, but that is not the norm as many stress the seahorses too much.
I have never claimed to be an expert and am indeed not, but I have enough years of experiences that I can share with others so I wrote that for my website.
The main thing on my website is information via the links at the bottom that for the most part are written by more informed people than myself, Dan, Ann, and Elf.
Combined, I believe the information to be very informative for newer to the hobby or new to the hobby people.
I have over fifty years of keeping fish, with over 17 years in the marine end of it but it still didn't keep me from doing stupid things, even after reading for years on seahorse.org that it was not recommended.
Unfortunately I've come to realize that human nature being what it is, many other people tend to do the same things I did, with experience or without.
That was another point for my musings.
You have added a beautiful looking seahorse and I wish you and the seahorses luck in your future endeavors with them.
I have five different species of seahorses but that one doesn't look exactly like any I have but is closest to the erectus.
I hope you don't mind my saying that I suggest close watching of the tank for problems that MIGHT develop as a result of mixing species.
You may have already read that seahorses sometimes fall victim to pathogens carried by other species, or indeed, from the same species of different origin and if caught in time (if it happens) then remedial action can be successful.

[ann83]

Dude, you're the one that said "the LFS assured me that it was captive bred. what kind is it???" Come on, you have to know that for most people, that reads "newb". I don't think it was out of line for rayjay to assume that based on your initial post, and saying that about any other type of reef fish I think would have gotten you the same response, so I'm not sure if "seahorse police" applies here. It definitely doesn't read as someone who is so experienced with seahorses that they are going to disparage someone as "not experienced" for not knowing the seahorse's species.
Yes, the seahorse is an H. erectus. Can't tell if you wanted that info or not, since in the first post you ask what kind it is, and in the second, you say that you know. But, since you asked.

[steelcaveman]

I do a Formalin 2 dip on all my fish.
All coral is dipped in Prazipro.
I feed mysis, cyclops, & Fauna Marin Sea fan line.
I use Selcon on the mysis.

The perc is actually terrified of the seahorses.
My big redi beat the <>&^ out of it the first day I added her to the tank.

I do have a seahorse husbandry related question.
I have found over the years that fish are really good at controlling algae compared to other animals.
I just added the ORA black line blenny, a great algae eater, but will need to be carefully watched.
Are there any great algae eating fish that do well with seahorses?
What is a good food supplement for seahorses?

[ann83]

Yes, the blenny will definitely need to be watched. Algae blennies have been known to beat the snot out of seahorses, quickly and unexpectedly.

The only algae eating fish that I can think of that is relatively safe with seahorses is a saltwater-acclimated sailfin molly. I use snails and manual removal.

As for food supplements. Occasionally feeding live shrimp gutloaded with things like algae/vitamins and/or beta glucan is a good idea.

[rayjay]

For enrichments to gut load live shrimp with, go to seahorsesource enrichment page.
Seahorse Source - Enrichments
If you scroll down, you will find "Dan's Feed Artemia Enrichment" which can be used for all stages of artemia from instar II onward, as well as mysids and other shrimp that you may feed your seahorses.

[steelcaveman]

When I first saw the seahorse I thought that it was a really big Erectus.
I looked closer, not an Erectus, and just had to ask the LFS owner more.
It is an Ingen H.
http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=109

The cirri is pretty over the top for this seahorse.
I called the LFS owner today - he has a Phd in Marine Biology, bred seahorses, and in the business for a long time - he had the same question I did about the cirri and the Breeder insists that it is not a hybrid.
I inquired about being part Erectus - he is certain that it is not Erectus. He thought it may be an Ingen cross bred with some type of Japanese seahorse ?coronatus? The breeder insists that it is a pure Ingen.

[ann83]

No it isn't. It is not H. ingens. That is H. erectus. The H. ingens coronet and body type are completely different.

I only know of one breeder of H. ingens, and while he does occasionally get his stock into the U.S., they go through a wholesaler, so the LFS owner would not have spoken directly to him. And, they are much smaller at import, and of course, not shaped like H. erectus

[ann83]

H. ingens http://gallery.seahorse.org/main.php...&g2_itemId=316
H. erectus http://www.flickr.com/photos/felicia...ey/3654198911/

[steelcaveman]

Pretty sure it was shipped through a wholesaler in Bali.
The owner is pretty tight lipped about his suppliers.
I do know that it was not bred in the US.
The other ones were much smaller than the one in the pic.
He gets them in twice per year.

[ann83]

The only place that I know H. ingens is being bred is Mexico. I know of no reason for them to be coming out of Bali at all (they aren't native there, either). I also know of no reason for H. erectus to be coming out of Bali, but who knows. Either way, that fish is H. erectus. Maybe the wholesaler had some H. erectus and some H. ingens and didn't differentiate.

[rayjay]

Take a look at THIS thread of zea-ingens who is as far as I know at this time, the only captive bred breeder of H. ingens on this side of the ocean at least.
From Bali, I would suspect they would be more likely to be tank raised no matter what the species, as there are very few Asian captive breeding producers. Aquamarine International is the only one I know of at the moment that has captive bred.
I also find it unusual that a store would be bringing in an order because usually the cost to bring them in is such that a transhipper/wholesaler here perhaps would bring them across and then distribute to various stores.

[steelcaveman]

I will have to do a little more digging into the source of the horse.
I will also try to take a full shot of the horse from another angle.
I am looking at some the pics of the Ingen and mine does look different from some pics and very similar to others.
It does look very much like Erectus in many of the pics.

The size is throwing me off though.
The Erectus that I have seen this size have been skinnier.
*
It is definitely a night owl. It is out and about once the moonlights come on and attaches to a rock all day. Not sure this makes a difference.

[ann83]

H. erectus ought to be that broad-chested at that size, although some captive bred take longer to get there. H. ingens are never that broad-chested, and since they reach 10 - 12 inches, are likely to still be very juvie-like (thin and gangly) at that stage.

If you don't believe my assessment (and I don't blame you, you don't know me from adam, and I'm not technically qualified), what I would direct you to do is to look at the morphological identifying features like coronet shape, the eye spines, and the cheek spines, among others, as a starting off point. Looking at the standards put out by project seahorse for seahorse identification, and then comparing to your seahorse.

[rayjay]

Ann, he already has the information for H. ingens in the link he provided in post 12 above.
The drawing below the pictures look like something that would have come from Project Seahorse ID.

[steelcaveman]

Originally Posted by ann83

H. erectus ought to be that broad-chested at that size, although some captive bred take longer to get there. H. ingens are never that broad-chested, and since they reach 10 - 12 inches, are likely to still be very juvie-like (thin and gangly) at that stage.

If you don't believe my assessment (and I don't blame you, you don't know me from adam, and I'm not technically qualified), what I would direct you to do is to look at the morphological identifying features like coronet shape, the eye spines, and the cheek spines, among others, as a starting off point. Looking at the standards put out by project seahorse for seahorse identification, and then comparing to your seahorse.

Thanks.
I want to see if it changes in size and features over the next few months.
While I am being told it is an Ingen, from what I consider to be a very reliable source, I do have my own doubts. This thread re-affirms the doubts. Just looking at it, I think it is some type of an Erectus hybrid. There are many different types of seahorses that are bred locally in my area - Dallas, TX - so I do see lots of 3 inch seahorses including Erectus.
I may need to have a local seahorse enthusiast come over and take a look.

[rayjay]

While this pdf doesn't address the topic of this thread, I just though you might be interested in the drawing of the erectus female on page four.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/009/y4161e/y4161e42.pdf

[nickiwit]

Beautiful Seahorse! It makes me miss keeping seahorses.

[timinnl]

Originally Posted by steelcaveman

Pretty sure it was shipped through a wholesaler in Bali.
The owner is pretty tight lipped about his suppliers.
I do know that it was not bred in the US.
The other ones were much smaller than the one in the pic.
He gets them in twice per year.

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.

[steelcaveman]

Originally Posted by timinnl

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.

There is an abundance of saltwater fish stores in my area. The competition is fierce and some are now on the verge of shutting their doors. There are about 20 good saltwater fish stores within a 30 minute drive.
The owner is honest and told me what he knew. I do know that he struggles with the language barriers and sometimes gets something different from what he thought he ordered.

I paid under $70, including the taxes, which I consider to be a good deal regardless of the kind.