DIY flow diverter / wave maker - Page 2

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 01:31 PM

ROFLMAO! Thanks Laugh. I will repost today. How do you post?

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 01:36 PM

Jay, that's exactly how I plan to use it.

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 01:55 PM

How's this video?
Running 12 hours now

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 06:11 PM

Been on for nearly a day. Going to try to break it now...
Running it dry for an hour (pump off)
Running the pump but not the motor, then starting the motor into a full flow.
Any ideas for some other torture tests to see how robust it is?

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 06:29 PM

Double post

Gorgok · 12/31/2012, 10:41 PM

Not sure how abusive you want to be, but you could dump some salt in front of the pump and run the grains through the assembly.

A not quite as abusive one would be to restrict the 2" pipes down to something much much smaller, like 3/4" or 1/2". Something to build up pressure and simulate having locline nozzles only at the ends.

karimwassef · 12/31/2012, 11:58 PM

Good ideas. Thanks.
If I restrict the flow, I'll have to glue the test fixture since its just pushed together.

Crit21 · 01/05/2013, 01:16 PM

Great idea. I like the thought of using cheap parts that really work and are either disposable, maintainable and easily modified.

A few suggestions:

You'll need to lubricate the O-ring seals if they rotate against anything, or they'll quickly wear out and leak. There are non-toxic, water-proof silicone lubricants made for rubber and synthetic O-rings.

You should test for leaks by forcing the water through under fairly high pressure. You would do this by restricting the outlets to small diameters.

You mention a PVC extension. It's also known as a PVC expansion coupling or PVC repair coupling. I fount one at Lowes.com that comes in 1 1/2" diameter. I wonder if a larger diameter coupling would offer less resistance to rotational friction.

In case it comes apart under pressure, maybe you could use large diameter PVC pipe and caps to act as a protective "blast case" around the assembly. Just drill holes to allow the tubes to penetrate.

I can't wait to hear how it stands up to long term use.

karimwassef · 01/05/2013, 02:05 PM

Thanks!

I considered the larger diameter first but it doesn't work well. The larger seals actually create more surface area to seal and more friction. Since there is no reason to use a large pipe, the smallest rigid pipe is best. Larger extensions are also longer. Also, the smaller the rotating shaft, the less potential restrictions you have to cut and smooth to make the fittings work. My original attempt was a 1" 4 outlet version and that was painful because the 3/4" and 1" pipes were too tight.. Needed a lot of sanding and then buffing to make them slide. The combination of 2" pipe, 1.5" rotating valve, 3/4" shaft and 1" seal was just right. It literally took less than 2 hours to do the whole thing.

I was looking at o-ring lubricants, but didn't know how they might effect the reef. Any recommendations?

Crit21 · 01/11/2013, 08:43 AM

Ace hardware has non-toxic silicone lubricant for O-rings.
http://www.amazon.com/Ace-Silicone-G.../dp/B003LNV192

How long has it been running? Why not put it to the test in your sump/fuge? Give it a more powerful pump and see if it takes the abuse.

karimwassef · 01/11/2013, 09:36 AM

Thanks. I plan to.
My sump is still in assembly, but I'm hoping to get the circulation up and running ASAP.

Crit21 · 01/11/2013, 09:38 AM

Don't forget lots of pics and videos where you can.

karimwassef · 01/11/2013, 11:34 AM

Sure. Here's my main build thread.

Crit21 · 01/12/2013, 08:25 AM

I really like the design with the water coming in from the bottom. It started me thinking, and it occurred to me that it can be done without the extension piece, so you can make it shorter. The goals are to block any water from getting to the motor (like a large end cap opening downward to catch any spray and let it run back down the outside of the unit again), and allowing the motor to turn the shaft. I'll try to diagram something and post it.

karimwassef · 01/12/2013, 11:12 AM

The concern is cost, complexity and performance under pressure. The extension allows for a pressure fit 3/4" internal shaft with no water getting to the motor.

I have another valve I can use some advice on. I am working on an actuated valve using a linear actuator and the same construction to open and close the valve (allowing for leakage of course).

Crit21 · 01/12/2013, 04:55 PM

You can add a PVC plug anywhere between the water and the motor.

Did you do any sanding inside the 4-way fitting, or just to the rotating piece?

Crit21 · 01/12/2013, 05:13 PM

It may be worth exploring, but rotisserie motors are cheap and powerful. Here's a variable speed rotisserie motor for $23 on Amazon. You'd have to protect it from saltwater mist. The question is whether the motor is quiet enough inside the cabinet not to be heard above the ambient aquarium sounds.

http://www.amazon.com/Grillmark-BBQ-.../dp/B003CHAKF8

karimwassef · 01/12/2013, 06:20 PM

Excellent idea for the rotating diverter!
I only sanded the rotating shaft. Use a very fine sanding finish or you'll create more friction.

Pjs first · 01/12/2013, 07:11 PM

Great idea I will be making one in the future

Thanks for sharing

karimwassef · 01/15/2013, 09:31 PM

Ok. Here is the valve version (not diverter)

karimwassef · 01/15/2013, 09:37 PM

Crit21 · 01/19/2013, 12:23 PM

karimwassef, I've been playing with your design and came up with a 4-way diverter. The bathtub check went very well, but things got a little messy when I used a Mag24. I also found a place that sells a 6-way fitting that can be used to make a shorter version of the 4-port diverter, but it has to be drilled because they took a 4-way and joined two additional ports to it without drilling. I have to cross-post to show you though.

http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showt...-flow-diverter

I also found a good motor for a lot less $, and I think it's probably going to be more durable in the long run because it's meant to be used to drive a pellet stove auger. It runs at 1-2 RPM, depending on what you get.

Thanks for the inspiration.

salman01 · 01/19/2013, 02:15 PM

very cool idea,...following along

karimwassef · 01/19/2013, 03:38 PM

Great!

I found the 6 outlet too but only needed two alternating outputs. Great to see the adaptation works.

I am struggling with the straight valve now... The PVC portion works great, but the problem is that I need a linear actuator and the only solutions are $100+. I found automatic car door lock actuators but they're not very strong. I can't find a solenoid with a long enough stroke ~1"

I can go with a rotational motion but then I need a rotational actuator or a linear to rotational mechanism or gear.

I really need a low cost ~$40 linear actuator with a ~1" stroke... Preferably ac powered 110V to pull and with an internal spring to extend when not powered... Any ideas??

karimwassef · 01/19/2013, 03:42 PM

Can you post your new motor info? Is it different than the rotisserie motor?

12/31/2012, 06:11 PM	#29
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Been on for nearly a day. Going to try to break it now... Running it dry for an hour (pump off) Running the pump but not the motor, then starting the motor into a full flow. Any ideas for some other torture tests to see how robust it is? Last edited by karimwassef; 12/31/2012 at 07:02 PM.

01/12/2013, 05:13 PM	#42
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	It may be worth exploring, but rotisserie motors are cheap and powerful. Here's a variable speed rotisserie motor for $23 on Amazon. You'd have to protect it from saltwater mist. The question is whether the motor is quiet enough inside the cabinet not to be heard above the ambient aquarium sounds. http://www.amazon.com/Grillmark-BBQ-.../dp/B003CHAKF8 Last edited by Crit21; 01/12/2013 at 05:21 PM.

01/12/2013, 07:11 PM	#44
Pjs first Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Bessemer AL. Posts: 4	Very cool Great idea I will be making one in the future Thanks for sharing

01/15/2013, 09:31 PM	#45
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Ok. Here is the valve version (not diverter) Last edited by karimwassef; 01/15/2013 at 09:36 PM.

12/31/2012, 01:31 PM	#26
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	ROFLMAO! Thanks Laugh. I will repost today. How do you post?

12/31/2012, 01:36 PM	#27
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Jay, that's exactly how I plan to use it.

12/31/2012, 01:55 PM	#28
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	How's this video? Running 12 hours now

12/31/2012, 06:29 PM	#30
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Double post

12/31/2012, 10:41 PM	#31
Gorgok Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 1,904	Not sure how abusive you want to be, but you could dump some salt in front of the pump and run the grains through the assembly. A not quite as abusive one would be to restrict the 2" pipes down to something much much smaller, like 3/4" or 1/2". Something to build up pressure and simulate having locline nozzles only at the ends.

12/31/2012, 11:58 PM	#32
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Good ideas. Thanks. If I restrict the flow, I'll have to glue the test fixture since its just pushed together.

01/05/2013, 01:16 PM	#33
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	Great idea. I like the thought of using cheap parts that really work and are either disposable, maintainable and easily modified. A few suggestions: You'll need to lubricate the O-ring seals if they rotate against anything, or they'll quickly wear out and leak. There are non-toxic, water-proof silicone lubricants made for rubber and synthetic O-rings. You should test for leaks by forcing the water through under fairly high pressure. You would do this by restricting the outlets to small diameters. You mention a PVC extension. It's also known as a PVC expansion coupling or PVC repair coupling. I fount one at Lowes.com that comes in 1 1/2" diameter. I wonder if a larger diameter coupling would offer less resistance to rotational friction. In case it comes apart under pressure, maybe you could use large diameter PVC pipe and caps to act as a protective "blast case" around the assembly. Just drill holes to allow the tubes to penetrate. I can't wait to hear how it stands up to long term use.

01/05/2013, 02:05 PM	#34
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Thanks! I considered the larger diameter first but it doesn't work well. The larger seals actually create more surface area to seal and more friction. Since there is no reason to use a large pipe, the smallest rigid pipe is best. Larger extensions are also longer. Also, the smaller the rotating shaft, the less potential restrictions you have to cut and smooth to make the fittings work. My original attempt was a 1" 4 outlet version and that was painful because the 3/4" and 1" pipes were too tight.. Needed a lot of sanding and then buffing to make them slide. The combination of 2" pipe, 1.5" rotating valve, 3/4" shaft and 1" seal was just right. It literally took less than 2 hours to do the whole thing. I was looking at o-ring lubricants, but didn't know how they might effect the reef. Any recommendations?

01/11/2013, 08:43 AM	#35
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	Ace hardware has non-toxic silicone lubricant for O-rings. http://www.amazon.com/Ace-Silicone-G.../dp/B003LNV192 How long has it been running? Why not put it to the test in your sump/fuge? Give it a more powerful pump and see if it takes the abuse.

01/11/2013, 09:36 AM	#36
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Thanks. I plan to. My sump is still in assembly, but I'm hoping to get the circulation up and running ASAP.

01/11/2013, 09:38 AM	#37
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	Don't forget lots of pics and videos where you can.

01/11/2013, 11:34 AM	#38
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Sure. Here's my main build thread.

01/12/2013, 08:25 AM	#39
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	I really like the design with the water coming in from the bottom. It started me thinking, and it occurred to me that it can be done without the extension piece, so you can make it shorter. The goals are to block any water from getting to the motor (like a large end cap opening downward to catch any spray and let it run back down the outside of the unit again), and allowing the motor to turn the shaft. I'll try to diagram something and post it.

01/12/2013, 11:12 AM	#40
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	The concern is cost, complexity and performance under pressure. The extension allows for a pressure fit 3/4" internal shaft with no water getting to the motor. I have another valve I can use some advice on. I am working on an actuated valve using a linear actuator and the same construction to open and close the valve (allowing for leakage of course).

01/12/2013, 04:55 PM	#41
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	You can add a PVC plug anywhere between the water and the motor. Did you do any sanding inside the 4-way fitting, or just to the rotating piece?

01/12/2013, 06:20 PM	#43
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Excellent idea for the rotating diverter! I only sanded the rotating shaft. Use a very fine sanding finish or you'll create more friction.

01/15/2013, 09:37 PM	#46
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033

01/19/2013, 12:23 PM	#47
Crit21 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1,429	karimwassef, I've been playing with your design and came up with a 4-way diverter. The bathtub check went very well, but things got a little messy when I used a Mag24. I also found a place that sells a 6-way fitting that can be used to make a shorter version of the 4-port diverter, but it has to be drilled because they took a 4-way and joined two additional ports to it without drilling. I have to cross-post to show you though. http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showt...-flow-diverter I also found a good motor for a lot less $, and I think it's probably going to be more durable in the long run because it's meant to be used to drive a pellet stove auger. It runs at 1-2 RPM, depending on what you get. Thanks for the inspiration.

01/19/2013, 02:15 PM	#48
salman01 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: grayslake, il Posts: 84	very cool idea,...following along

01/19/2013, 03:38 PM	#49
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Great! I found the 6 outlet too but only needed two alternating outputs. Great to see the adaptation works. I am struggling with the straight valve now... The PVC portion works great, but the problem is that I need a linear actuator and the only solutions are $100+. I found automatic car door lock actuators but they're not very strong. I can't find a solenoid with a long enough stroke ~1" I can go with a rotational motion but then I need a rotational actuator or a linear to rotational mechanism or gear. I really need a low cost ~$40 linear actuator with a ~1" stroke... Preferably ac powered 110V to pull and with an internal spring to extend when not powered... Any ideas??

01/19/2013, 03:42 PM	#50
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Can you post your new motor info? Is it different than the rotisserie motor?