Vertex Illumina Club

[Kolognekoral]

Originally Posted by AGYDAL

I beg to differ...

What I meant is, it is not an on-off switch that makes a flashing effect. It dims the light via procent, but you can, of course, dim to 100%, which is dimmed out, but not off. Some tight semantics.

[Flagswipe]

Would Vertex users please describe their light programs for me. I am having a hard time with many SPS. I realize that SPS should not RTN STN from light, either too much or too little but that is what I am dealing with and have been since I started this tank from scratch and switched from MH/T5 to LED.
A little background
I have 3 tanks. I have 6 years experience, I certainly dont know it all but I didnt fall off the wagon yesterday either. My 90g frag table is crowded with frags and colonies that I trade and sell, all SPS, many of the same species that are that are suffering in my DT.
I run full zeo on both tanks, the parameters are the same alk 8, calc 390-410, same temp and salinity. The tanks are not connected, they are separate systems but the husbandry is the same. Sump for DT is in the basement beside the Frag tank. All dosing is dont at the same time, same for WC and media changes like Zeolites and Carbon.
The largest difference is that the Frag tank runs 2 x ATI powermodule 48" 6 bulb with a mixture of ati bulbs. I get good growth and excellent (if pale because of Zeo) colour.
Not looking for the usual, "check your alk" comments as I am well past that stage. All parameters are stable and have been for months. Vertex CA reactors, same RODI water, Same salt for WC.

What I am looking for is some advice on what I may be doing wrong with my Vertex.
I already have a ATI 5' 8 bulb on order as I cant lose any more SPS.

Lighting
10am - 6pm White 50% RB 50% Blue 30%
6pm the whites dim down to 15% and the Blues ramp up to actinic level for evening viewing up to 11:59pm then the moonlights come on
from 12am to 10am

What am I doing wrong??

Dwayne

[Kolognekoral]

Dwayne,

when I changed over to Vertex LEDs, the brightness was too much for my corals. I ran the whites at 50% and still use this as my base, but let it run to 80% for a few minutes in the afternoon, after which it drops back slowly to 50%. I find this good for the corals. Blues are slowly ramped-up to 100% and kept there for 8 hours, then ramped down to 0%, esentially the same for the royals, except they come on 1 hours before and burn one our later than the whites. A total for 13 hours light.

I'm am questioning the need to run the blue/royal at 100%. They are not bright to us, but to the corals for sure. 80% may be a better high level. My tank is deep at 70cm/30", but I run a 260 unit.

As to corals not rtn/stn-ing from light, I must differ! Yes, too much light can cause both of these conditions. Stress is stress. As I am not experiencing coral death from the LEDs, it MAY lie in the mix. I have whites at about 50% of the blues. You may wish to reduce the whites to 25%. The corals are growing from the blue spectrum, not the white. They do not utilize light above 500nm. Just how deep is this problem tank?

[Flagswipe]

Thanks for the input. The whites are maxing out at 50% right now but three weeks ago they were at 70%, I brought them down as a test to stop the RTN. I mislead you on the blue and RB, they never hit 100% but do get up to 80% during the day. I am going on memory here but no not 100% at any time. I will try to do a fancy pic like other people have done here for you to look at. Several pieces do look better since going to more blue and less white but I continue to struggle with 30% of my pieces looking in poor health with poor PE.
Example, I have many Millis and hairy SPS. One Milli has poor PE and the skin looks strained then a foot to the right there is a pink milli that is happy as can be and shaggy. I will post some pics for you

Dwayne

[deangelr]

anyone hear when the fixture may be Mac compatible again?

[mapn4reef]

I just ordered a Reef Savvy 48x28x20 tank, should I go with the 36" (900) or 48" (1200) length model? If these lights ever come to the US retail market, do you think it will drop the prices significantly? I suppose competition would increase at that point anyway. Thanks.

[deangelr]

Id go with the 48'' although the 36'' would probably work.

I doubt that these light prices will ever drop significantly like other fixtures might. Vertex will always be striving for top of the line technology and to be the leader in LED fixtures and programmable technology.. The Illumina will always be one of the most expensive fixtures.

Much like high end fixtures from Geisseman ELos, and Sfiligoi have not had large price drops over the years.

[reefrad]

on a 48" tank with 2 islands why cant one use 2 12" units separately?

thanks

[deangelr]

Originally Posted by reefrad

on a 48" tank with 2 islands why cant one use 2 12" units separately?

thanks

You could definitely do that.. Sounds cool. You just wouldn't be utilizing all of your tank..

[Midnightsun]

Originally Posted by reefrad

on a 48" tank with 2 islands why cant one use 2 12" units separately?

thanks

You could but you would almost be at the price of a 36" unit by purchasing 2 12's. You would not be able to get the travelling cloud effect either. You are paying for 2 separate timers and housings so it gets pricey quick.

IMHO, the Vetex should be bought 12" shorter than the tank dimensions for the best possible look and overage. Any wider and it is wasted overspill. In fact, my 24" unit is actually a hair under 26" wide.

[Kolognekoral]

If you aquarium has inner side braces that will impede the light entry, a fixture a bit inside this dimension would be effective. I have such braces on a 136cm long tank and the 120cm Illumina is a good fit.

[Eastamherstbias]

For a 4x2x2. 120gallon mixed reef. Would the illumine 200 work or is the 260 far superior.

-Austin

[aufo8mycat]

Originally Posted by Eastamherstbias

For a 4x2x2. 120gallon mixed reef. Would the illumine 200 work or is the 260 far superior.

-Austin

200 would be fine

[Kolognekoral]

I agree. Over a depth from 30" the 260 is your baby, but at 24", no problem with the 200.

[AGYDAL]

Is it me or does it seem that everyone keeps harping on this fixture reaching to the very end of their tanks? If this fixture is being compared to 400w metal halides, why are people acting like they're dealing with long bulbs (T5, PCs, whateva)?

I know they are totally different but...
LED with optics VS. halide bulb with reflector...
Same concept right?

I know on my tank that I run halides on, I never gave a moments thought about the halide bulbs running to the end of the tank.

[Kolognekoral]

Agydal,

they really aren't easy to compare to each other. First, Vertex does NOT use optics, instead, they cluster the LEDs to create intense wide angle spotlights, which is a bit in the direction of HQI. Definitely better for the shimmer. One of the disadvantages of HQI was a 'dead zone' of intense light directly under the bulb, where many corals, etc. couldn't live. Too bright and too hot. With LEDs one can have a smaller spot with literally no heat transfer to the tank and a 'softer' lighting.

Running the LEDs to the end only makes sense if something is living there or for the aesthetic, but most of us use every millimeter. As the Vertex is a 'soft spotlight' lighting with a wide angle, the light pads will have overlap of their light cones in the tank. If the pads do not run as close to the edge of the tank as possible, you will always have a slightly dimmer light in this area. Not great crime, just posssibly not optimum. I'm sure some will like this effect.

I get the feeling you are thinking in terms of 1 to 1 comparison, 250W HQI to LED array. In this case, no, they don't compare well. Then there is the spectrum, but that's another topic.

[aufo8mycat]

I have the sr1500 and i have 182x76x60cm tank so the lights are about 10cm from each end,
I only added water today so water is pretty cloudy but it sort of helps to show the spread in each colour
thought i would take some colour difference shots just 100% of each colour with lights 15cm from water surface


100% white rising

100% white

100% Royal blue

100% Blue

Everything on at 100%


and you can have everything in between:
Now i just wish water would clear up and could get skimmer working the way is supposed to but that should be done tomorrow, if i get away from pc and build a 10cm stand to raise it so happy i bought this light now just to get something growing under it

[notclear]

Very nice rack. What do you use to join the aluminum square tubes?

[AGYDAL]

Kolognekoral,

No, I know there is a great difference...I even stated "I know they are totally different"...that's why I chose this and not another HQI fixture(s). I've had experience with LEDs long before people started putting them on tanks.

LED & HQI comparisons are like apples and oranges but there are still similarities...there are clusters of LED light that overlap, I also thought that there were 120 degree optics on this fixture? Those are some wide optics, but they're still optics....Though I have a smaller fixture when I look at the LED from the underside I see LED pads with spacing that will allow for light overlap.

Ah yes, the spectrum...HQI degrades much faster, has undesireable elements in them, heat and whatever...I understand this too.

Also, awhile back I asked about increasing the cloud time to increase photoperiod...I never asked if the power supply stopped like you responded with...I asked if anyone else had thought of this to allow for a longer viewing time of their tank.

And I disagree with the clouds just dimming the light in nature...if the right storm blows in you can get nighttime light during the daytime...you ever lived on the ocean? I have...no matter how dark it gets you still have UV that makes it through the clouds...so far there isn't the UV pad available for sale stateside at this that I know of...no UV + 100% dark clouds allow for longer viewing times...simple math.

You're suddenly on here giving all this advise but where are the pictures of your tank? Seems you deflect to other questions rather than elaborate or your trials and errors in your experiences much?

Current tank at 5 months:


Top view:


Former view from my window:


About 6:30 pm...looks Like nighttime one the left...yet I was facing west when I took this photograph hmmm...


Just supporting my thoughts and questions with some photo back up...wish more people would follow suit...

Aufo8mycat- once again, thank you for the pictures!

[AGYDAL]

Double post sorry

[aufo8mycat]

Originally Posted by notclear

Very nice rack. What do you use to join the aluminum square tubes?

I got the corner peices etc to make the light stand at bunnings (i think your equivalent would be homedepot) just cut aluminium and slot it in give it a whack with a rubber mallet and done took 1.5 hours, total cost $120AUD including hacksaw

I can lift it with 2 fingers and was able to stand on the cross beams that support light,(65kg) In hindsight I wish i had have thought it out a bit more and put 2 upside-down U in the bottom to run cables through currently have to remove pumps to remove lights

[Kolognekoral]

Agydal,

I don't understand why you seem to be upset with me! I've attempted to answer questions (your or from others) based on my own experience as aquarist (40 years!). I see no reason why you should be reacting as you are. I am sorry, if you are getting the wrong impression. This is unintended.

As to why I am 'suddenly' commenting on Vertex is quite simple, I am doing work for them at the moment (translation, UK program) and have quite a different view of what is going on in the development of LED lighting. I am fortunate enough to have a few unpublished test reports on LEDs for aquariums, from which I am basing many of my comments, plus my own experiences, of course. From what I have been researching and reading, my previous approach to LEDs, using optics for deeper tanks and spreading the array evenly over the tank area, has changed. I find the clustering method better for spectral mix, general illumination and economics. Also, I find it much more aesthetic. At this point we still need to better understand what parts of the spectrum (and at what amounts/percentages) are useful or even required for long term success. I personally like a bit more toward the UVA spectrum (400nm), but is it required or simply usefull? Also, just how far into the green spectrum can one go without a cyanobacteria bloom? They utilize from about 520nm to 600nm.

As for storms, I grew up right on the ocean (only recently away from the sea, but so is it) and know from own experience how weather effects the light. Even in the tropics, clouds do rarely blacken the sky to such an extent that there is no reasonable amount of light. I'm thinking we misunderstand each other, here, as changing the lighting outside of a 24 hour cycle (aprox 12 on top 12 off) is not a very natural method. Be that as it may, I do know aquarists that play with their lighting in order to enjoy their aquariums when they are at home. You could really write a book as to the noted changes in growth, behaviors and general stability of a marine system, when one moves too far away from the natural light cycle. I've not heard of anything being downright killed by unnatural light regimens, but we can generally call them damaging (FO tanks probably don't mind). Is this what you are going on about? Putting 12 hours of lighting into different sections of the 24 hour cycle? Darkness is just as important to corals as light. Just how much one can change the 'packaging' is still unclear. I can tell you, spawning is impeded by strange light rhythms. If we understood more of how the lunar light effects reefs, we may better understand what would be possible. Then, again, I do prefer leaving such cycles as close to nature's developement as possible.

As to the Illumina itself, it dims its lighting, but does not turn it off (unless you set it to 'off' of course). This is a fine line, as the 100% dimming is producing no visible light, however, power is still running and you wouldn't want to confuse dimming with an on-off switch. Not that one could get a shock, but the circuit is still live, just as with a household dimmer. (most now have an 'off' position as well as dimming, at least in Europe).

Nice tank you have coming along, by the way. When I get a decent camera, I'll post a few shots of mine. It is definitely experimental, as that's kind of my job, and houses some fish I've had for over 10 years, when this was first set up. Some of the corals are almost as old, although trimmed well back and, yes, I still kill things now and then. I'm particularly happy with my achilles doctor. He's definitely the king and almost a pet, if you follow me. He's a bit too fast to photograph well.

A question for you, with LEDs have you noticed a strong reduction in nuisance alga? I find, other than diatoms, most 'alga', especially cynobacteria, don't relish the limited spectrum of most LED set-ups.

so, can we be friends?

[dagon138]

I was considering the 24' Illumina 200 for my elos 70, but after some digging (and seeing pictures posted) it appears that a 12' unit would even work fine! This is awesome, and much more in-line with my budget (which got blown getting the elos).
I'll be sure to provide pixs once everything is running.

[MSHUR]

Jamie,

I have 34" tank and i was told that Illumina 260 wouldnt be so good for such a wide tank.Your thoughts greatly apriciated.


Mike

[Kolognekoral]

Originally Posted by MSHUR

Jamie,

I have 34" tank and i was told that Illumina 260 wouldnt be so good for such a wide tank.Your thoughts greatly apriciated.


Mike

Mike, what are the actual dimensions of the tank. Do you mean it is 34" from front to back?

Jamie