Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log! - Page 21

mwp · 06/26/2006, 12:16 PM

Good question Anderson. I haven't posted their sizes before, nor have I even tried to measure. A quick look through the glass with a tape measure suggests that the female is probably around 2.5-3" TL, and the male is closer to 3"+TL. Female #2 is 1.75 TL.

No hatch on last night's spawn yet, but I looked at 2 eggs and at least one of them appeared viable.

FWIW,

MP

aomont · 06/26/2006, 12:53 PM

Ok, now I think I see why Sadovy had 200 eggs at most. The females she sampled were not larger then 1,6in. Maybe weÂ´ll check on this when #2 is ready for the party !!!

Anderson.

mwp · 06/26/2006, 01:02 PM

Anderson, yes, that's partially true...however, was Sadavoy's lengths in TL (total length) or SL (standard length, nose tip to caudal peducle end)? I'd have to go back and check, but if she was using SL, then my female isn't that much larger than the largest sampled, the tail on these mandarins is probably 3/4"!

MP

aomont · 06/26/2006, 01:27 PM

TL Matt !
Anderson.

mwp · 06/26/2006, 01:31 PM

Well that explains it then - surely a fish almost 2X as long as Sadovy's largest would produce 2.5 or more times as many eggs!

MP

mwp · 06/26/2006, 04:50 PM

So far we have a hatch of ONE juvie again. So far it looks like the heated 10 wins out...dropping temp is probably not a good idea..either that or it's just slowly development down, but as mentioned prior, unusually, all the eggs had sank by this morning rather than remaining afloat until "hatch time". I'm going to keep an eye on it and see what else shows up..probably not worth the effort to even remove the larvae because I'd have to reacclimate them to the temp of the larval tank - dropping them straight in would probably just deliver the TKO...we'll see.

MP

mwp · 06/26/2006, 06:42 PM

So it's still a hatch of ONE, and even that one looks DOA...no movement. I'm officially calling this small spawn a dud.

So...do I continue to try to raise the ONE single larvae in a 10 gallon tank all by itself and simply dump in new spawns as they occur, or do I remove him to something like a breeder net and focus on getting better hatch rates in the 10 gallon with sterile water?

BTW, a 2nd 10 gallon, even though I have the room for it, is currently not an option...Renee and I just made a pact that nothing new for the fish would be purchased other than maintenance items like carbon, food, additives, salt etc....things like my car windshield getting smashed in last night keep eating up the extra fun money....heck one car windshield buys 3 microscopes! GRRRRRRR!

MP

mwp · 06/26/2006, 10:48 PM

11:41 PM, 6-26-06 - guess who's lookin' like they're going to spawn tonight?

MP

mwp · 06/26/2006, 11:13 PM

6-27-06, 12:06 AM - WE HAVE A SPAWN! - I am simply in awe of how frequently these guys can spawn! Tonight's eggs will be collected and placed in the 10 gallon with the rotifers and single remaining preflexion larvae

MP

Krypticol · 06/26/2006, 11:27 PM

I was thinking maybe the one live little man should be getting the best water, as he is already going good and good water and food will keep him going right? I'm afraid that the spawnsin the same tank maybe making the water not as freindly for the little guy?... I'm not sure,just thinking out loud here.'

sorry to hear about yer window... I used to live in NY and know the story all to well....

My girl and I made the same "no more except maintenace" pact, but she's po's cause I bought a 12 nanocube for an experiment....hehe last one...I promised...

mwp · 06/27/2006, 12:33 AM

LOL Krypticol, I hear ya! It wasn't quite so much a "pact" so much as a strong suggestion that I couldn't argue with given the circumstances...but OH how I'm longing for that 2nd 10 now!

Official PHOTOGRAPHIC COUNT on tonight's spawn - 613 eggs!

MP

aomont · 06/27/2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

I sampled 15, so the margin of error is around 24%. In my sample, I had 33% viable eggs +- 24% then...so to extrapolate based on a population of 400, I had somewhere between 36 and 228 eggs that were viable. So in theory there should be at LEAST 30+ larvae in the tank right now IF I had 400 eggs. If I ditch the margin of error and just extrapolate from thesample, I *should* have around 132 larvae...I definitely don't have that many in my opinion.

Sorry to come back at this Matt... As long as I have no marine fish breeding experience I try to add with something I can (or at least think I can

).

Error of 24% (15 sampled in a total of 400 eggs) out of 33%. DonÂ´t think it would be from 9 to 57 % but from 25,08 to 40,92 % of hatching larvae ! So 100 to 163 larvae.
Anyway something is really happening that is preventing hatching or immediate suvivability of the larvae.
LetÂ´s see how this one goes and sorry if it was too off topic.

Anderson.

mwp · 06/27/2006, 08:41 AM

Not off topic...I haven't done margin of error in a while but I *THINK* I had the figures correct in the quote above....I'm not sure how you're getting 24.08 to 40.92% hatch rates based off the sample and margin of error unless the margin of error is a percentage of the SAMPLE, not of the total population...

HMM.

Matt

FishGuttz · 06/27/2006, 09:19 AM

How's our little friend doing?

mwp · 06/27/2006, 09:25 AM

A quick update on the larvae, it's 10:20 AM on 6-27. I searched the tank for about 10 minutes but can't find the larvae anymore...doesn't necessarily mean he's "gone", especially if he's gone into bottom-dwelling mode (aka. starting to settle). IF this mandarin was from the 6-18 spawn, we're at 9 days and that would make total sense.

The eggs from last night's spawn are again all floating this morning (a good sign compared to yesterday's spawn). Maybe we'll get another "fair" hatch?

I added in 2 "basters" of my "standard" phyto mix, just to give some dietary variety (this particular batch is 50% Nannochloropsus, 25% Tetraselmis and 25% T-Iso).

Hopefully I'll locate the lone larvae at some point today!

MP

mwp · 06/27/2006, 03:06 PM

Well, it's just before 4:00 PM on the 27th..we have a fairly decent hatch from last night's spawn, simply dumped into the 10 that's been set up since roughly the 19th with SS-rotifers. I'm going to say around 1 to 2 dozen larvae, they're pretty tough to count with the rots and phyto in there.

STILL no sign of our older larvae.

MP

Kathy55g · 06/27/2006, 03:57 PM

awesome that with all the propellers and kreisels you tried, a ten gallon tank works so well!

best of luck with this hatch!
K

mwp · 06/27/2006, 05:13 PM

Yup, it looks like simply throwing them into a 10 gallon with an air feed (several bubbles per second) works just as well or better than any of the other methods I've tried. Still not getting hatches of 100 or more, but it's a step in the right direction! 3 "fair" hatches now in the 10 gallon, no propeller, no kriesel, just plain old air for circulation, kinda shoots a lot of Mai's assertions down. Definitely no need for fancy equipment to hatch a couple dozen out of a spawn of 600! It's still not enough in my book - most of the larvae still disappear within 24 hours...I believe I need HIGH hatch rates if I'm ever going to have a good shot at raising a couple.

It's also worth mentioning that I havent' really repeated this success in SMALL vessels of any kind...it seems like anything standing alone or in a small body of water fails to hatch, which makes me wonder if perhaps the eggs or something else have some sort of chemical release that interferes with the growth of other eggs? It's just a theory based on the fact that clean water, dirty water, doesn't really seem to matter, but total water volume in the system DOES seem to have some effect on the hatch I get....that's really the one consistent thread I can think off between ALL of my good vs. bad hatches (i.e. the one larger kriesel hatch I had was with the kriesel that had an open port to allow for some water exchange).

ANOTHER thing I'm currently tossing around in my head, I recently started supplementing the feed by soaking it in REEF PLUS (Seachem) as well as the Ocean Rider Vibrance and Selcon...perhaps there's something in the Reef Plus that's helping with egg viability in the long run?

As soon as I get my refund from Aquatic Eco-Systems I have clearance from the tower to get a digital microscope!!!!!! Hurry up AquaEco!

Matt

Kathy55g · 06/27/2006, 06:00 PM

Matt, please check your email. K

mwp · 06/27/2006, 09:06 PM

Kathy, just got your email - will respond shortly - thanks.

The big news, I think we had the best hatch yet on this most recent spawn. Everywhere I point the flashlight I see larvae...it's not uncommon to have 3 or 4 in the beam at any given point! MAYBE....

Tonight I'll try to do a headcount once the lights are out (a bit easier to spot the larvae in my rotifer soup!). I'm pretty pleased with the results of this hatch.

It's also worth mentioning that a couple hours ago I added in the last of my freshly mixed saltwater (Dr. Foster's sent the wrong salt this time around, so I have to SEND IT BACK and then they'll ship the right salt...looks like I'm headed to the LFS tomorrow!). I also added 2 basters of the "Mandarin Mix" (50% T-Iso, 50% Tet.).

To recap this somewhat successful incubation method:

Incubation Vessel - 10 gallon tank, filled most of the way, with one relatively strong air feed coming from the base of the tank at a rate of several bubbles per second.

Incubation Water - I've tried sterile, freshly mixed, and "used", and in the end I don't think it's made that great of a difference.

Broodstock Diet - The only change that's been made in the last 1-2 weeks is that I've started added Reef Plus to the soaking regiment.

Temperature - the broodstock and 10 gallon are both right around 78F steady at this time of year (during March/April the broodstock tank usually ran closer to 75-76).

Collection Method - using a pipette with the end "sawed off" to make for a larger opening, I'm able to suck out most all of the eggs while collecting an extremely minimal amount of the parent's tank water. I'm also getting less "GUNK".

That pretty much describes how I've done the last 3 "successful" batches. Something in there is obviously KEY to helping get better hatch rates vs. all the other 1 or 2 or 5 or 7 larvae that most of the other, earlier methods I've tried have produced. Perhaps down the line I'll try splitting up more cultures and doing more formal "experiments" to make a definite test of what works, what doesn't, what has an influence on hatching success and what doesn't.

So there's maybe 3 dozen larvae or more in the 10 gallon tank along with SS rotifers and Nannochloropis, Tetraselmis and T-Iso. The NEXT thing I'm going to change on this batch is that I'm going to keep a light on 24 hours.

My REASONING behind this 24 hour lighting is that while watching our lost "lone larvae" in the morning he'd be skinny and in the evening he'd be FAT. So *maybe* we can get better larval survival if they have SOME light to feed with at all hours of the day.

I may also go back to seiving my L-Strain / Copepod cultures to get some variety of diet into the mix...that can't hurt either!

I'm off to do a water test on the larval tank just to see where things are at.

MP

mwp · 06/27/2006, 10:46 PM

Holy Mother Mary of the Mandarin Miracles - if I wasn't seeing it I wouldn't believe it. Lights went off at 10:30 this evening (gave them all a late night snack at 10, so I left 'em on longer than normal). Turned out the last of the ambient room lights about 11:35-11:40.

Unless I'm misreading the courtship and rises, we're going to have ANOTHER spawn tonight. That's pretty amazing in itself considering that the female is not that "ripe" compared to the prior spawn (so this one's going to be small).

What's REALLY surprising is that Female #2, in her breeder net, is TRYING TO COURT THE MALE TOO! It's really noteworthy because normally she assumes nocturnal coloration within minutes of lights out.

She's going nuts in the net, zipping up and down, fins flared, trying to get some lovin'. I hardly think she's ready for it..she's still skinny in my book. I also do not know if she's going to work out being released into the tank..since my first noting of it a little while back, female #1 has visited #2 in the net several times per day and it always looks like a hostile visit. So I think the answer to the question, "Can you keep a breeding trio of Mandarins in a 24 gallon cube", is going to be "NO", but I'm going to wait a couple more weeks at least, see how these visits progress, and postpone making any decisions until then (at the earliest).

OK, so I still have that larval water test to do...

MP

mwp · 06/27/2006, 11:16 PM

OK, so it's 12:15 AM on 6-28 now...a few minutes ago while answering emails I heard the splash that typically accompanies a "false spawn" or the actual spawning event. I glanced over...no eggs on the surface...went back to what I was doing. Well, after finishing up the emails I looked back in the tank and could not locate either of the mandarin pair. Female #2 has gone to sleep.

The flashlight helped me find female #1. She appeared to be in nocturnal dress but not fully asleep...I haven't been able to find the male (there's a LOT of caulpera in the tank..I'm overdue for a harvest).

Pumps are on for a minute and will go back off...I'll wait a little longer to see if this ended up being a failed attempt or not.

MP

mwp · 06/27/2006, 11:55 PM

My official stance on tonight's activities - a failed attempt..the female didn't LOOK ready and I think the male figured that out after several no-goes...she's asleep and he...well, for a change I can't figure out where he's sleeping!

Larval Water Test Results - 79.9F, SG 1.025, Salinity 33-34 PPM, pH 8.2, Alkalinity 5 meq/L, Free Ammonia 0ppm, Total Ammonia 0.5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm.

The only thing I don't really like on that list is the SG/Salinity. That's about where the parental tank runs, but I think for larval development it can be lowered and may have some beneficial effects. I don't know...experienced breeders, what's your take on Salinity and Larval rearing?

MP

mwp · 06/28/2006, 01:09 AM

Hey, for all of you keeping or who have kept Mandarins, I set up a poll in the Reef Fishes' Forum - trying to get an idea how long people are keeping their mandarins alive and what that captive lifespan might be (afterall, I know my mandarins can't keep up this level of breeding FOREVER...kinda curious to see how long they MIGHT stay at it).

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=874961

MP

FishGuttz · 06/28/2006, 10:05 AM

Matt,
I voted in your poll. I had a mandarin about 15 years ago. It was in a 30g reef. I didn't know about specialty feeding at the time. He died rather quickly, certainly not due to old age!!

06/26/2006, 12:53 PM	#502
aomont Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 410	Ok, now I think I see why Sadovy had 200 eggs at most. The females she sampled were not larger then 1,6in. Maybe weÂ´ll check on this when #2 is ready for the party !!! Anderson. __________________ "Posso não saber de nada mas suspeito de muita coisa..."

06/26/2006, 01:27 PM	#504
aomont Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 410	TL Matt ! Anderson. __________________ "Posso não saber de nada mas suspeito de muita coisa..."

06/26/2006, 11:27 PM	#510
Krypticol Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Great Northwest... Posts: 103	I was thinking maybe the one live little man should be getting the best water, as he is already going good and good water and food will keep him going right? I'm afraid that the spawnsin the same tank maybe making the water not as freindly for the little guy?... I'm not sure,just thinking out loud here.' sorry to hear about yer window... I used to live in NY and know the story all to well.... My girl and I made the same "no more except maintenace" pact, but she's po's cause I bought a 12 nanocube for an experiment....hehe last one...I promised... __________________ Krypticol Current Tank Info: 14g Oceanic Bio Cube, building a 120g experimental setup!

06/26/2006, 12:16 PM	#501
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Good question Anderson. I haven't posted their sizes before, nor have I even tried to measure. A quick look through the glass with a tape measure suggests that the female is probably around 2.5-3" TL, and the male is closer to 3"+TL. Female #2 is 1.75 TL. No hatch on last night's spawn yet, but I looked at 2 eggs and at least one of them appeared viable. FWIW, MP

06/26/2006, 01:02 PM	#503
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Anderson, yes, that's partially true...however, was Sadavoy's lengths in TL (total length) or SL (standard length, nose tip to caudal peducle end)? I'd have to go back and check, but if she was using SL, then my female isn't that much larger than the largest sampled, the tail on these mandarins is probably 3/4"! MP

06/26/2006, 01:31 PM	#505
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Well that explains it then - surely a fish almost 2X as long as Sadovy's largest would produce 2.5 or more times as many eggs! MP

06/26/2006, 04:50 PM	#506
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	So far we have a hatch of ONE juvie again. So far it looks like the heated 10 wins out...dropping temp is probably not a good idea..either that or it's just slowly development down, but as mentioned prior, unusually, all the eggs had sank by this morning rather than remaining afloat until "hatch time". I'm going to keep an eye on it and see what else shows up..probably not worth the effort to even remove the larvae because I'd have to reacclimate them to the temp of the larval tank - dropping them straight in would probably just deliver the TKO...we'll see. MP

06/26/2006, 06:42 PM	#507
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	So it's still a hatch of ONE, and even that one looks DOA...no movement. I'm officially calling this small spawn a dud. So...do I continue to try to raise the ONE single larvae in a 10 gallon tank all by itself and simply dump in new spawns as they occur, or do I remove him to something like a breeder net and focus on getting better hatch rates in the 10 gallon with sterile water? BTW, a 2nd 10 gallon, even though I have the room for it, is currently not an option...Renee and I just made a pact that nothing new for the fish would be purchased other than maintenance items like carbon, food, additives, salt etc....things like my car windshield getting smashed in last night keep eating up the extra fun money....heck one car windshield buys 3 microscopes! GRRRRRRR! MP

06/26/2006, 10:48 PM	#508
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	11:41 PM, 6-26-06 - guess who's lookin' like they're going to spawn tonight? MP

06/26/2006, 11:13 PM	#509
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	6-27-06, 12:06 AM - WE HAVE A SPAWN! - I am simply in awe of how frequently these guys can spawn! Tonight's eggs will be collected and placed in the 10 gallon with the rotifers and single remaining preflexion larvae MP

06/27/2006, 12:33 AM	#511
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	LOL Krypticol, I hear ya! It wasn't quite so much a "pact" so much as a strong suggestion that I couldn't argue with given the circumstances...but OH how I'm longing for that 2nd 10 now! Official PHOTOGRAPHIC COUNT on tonight's spawn - 613 eggs! MP

06/27/2006, 08:41 AM	#513
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Not off topic...I haven't done margin of error in a while but I THINK I had the figures correct in the quote above....I'm not sure how you're getting 24.08 to 40.92% hatch rates based off the sample and margin of error unless the margin of error is a percentage of the SAMPLE, not of the total population... HMM. Matt

06/27/2006, 09:19 AM	#514
FishGuttz Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC-- Posts: 173	How's our little friend doing?

06/27/2006, 09:25 AM	#515
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	A quick update on the larvae, it's 10:20 AM on 6-27. I searched the tank for about 10 minutes but can't find the larvae anymore...doesn't necessarily mean he's "gone", especially if he's gone into bottom-dwelling mode (aka. starting to settle). IF this mandarin was from the 6-18 spawn, we're at 9 days and that would make total sense. The eggs from last night's spawn are again all floating this morning (a good sign compared to yesterday's spawn). Maybe we'll get another "fair" hatch? I added in 2 "basters" of my "standard" phyto mix, just to give some dietary variety (this particular batch is 50% Nannochloropsus, 25% Tetraselmis and 25% T-Iso). Hopefully I'll locate the lone larvae at some point today! MP

06/27/2006, 03:06 PM	#516
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Well, it's just before 4:00 PM on the 27th..we have a fairly decent hatch from last night's spawn, simply dumped into the 10 that's been set up since roughly the 19th with SS-rotifers. I'm going to say around 1 to 2 dozen larvae, they're pretty tough to count with the rots and phyto in there. STILL no sign of our older larvae. MP

06/27/2006, 03:57 PM	#517
Kathy55g Moved On Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,249	awesome that with all the propellers and kreisels you tried, a ten gallon tank works so well! best of luck with this hatch! K

06/27/2006, 05:13 PM	#518
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Yup, it looks like simply throwing them into a 10 gallon with an air feed (several bubbles per second) works just as well or better than any of the other methods I've tried. Still not getting hatches of 100 or more, but it's a step in the right direction! 3 "fair" hatches now in the 10 gallon, no propeller, no kriesel, just plain old air for circulation, kinda shoots a lot of Mai's assertions down. Definitely no need for fancy equipment to hatch a couple dozen out of a spawn of 600! It's still not enough in my book - most of the larvae still disappear within 24 hours...I believe I need HIGH hatch rates if I'm ever going to have a good shot at raising a couple. It's also worth mentioning that I havent' really repeated this success in SMALL vessels of any kind...it seems like anything standing alone or in a small body of water fails to hatch, which makes me wonder if perhaps the eggs or something else have some sort of chemical release that interferes with the growth of other eggs? It's just a theory based on the fact that clean water, dirty water, doesn't really seem to matter, but total water volume in the system DOES seem to have some effect on the hatch I get....that's really the one consistent thread I can think off between ALL of my good vs. bad hatches (i.e. the one larger kriesel hatch I had was with the kriesel that had an open port to allow for some water exchange). ANOTHER thing I'm currently tossing around in my head, I recently started supplementing the feed by soaking it in REEF PLUS (Seachem) as well as the Ocean Rider Vibrance and Selcon...perhaps there's something in the Reef Plus that's helping with egg viability in the long run? As soon as I get my refund from Aquatic Eco-Systems I have clearance from the tower to get a digital microscope!!!!!! Hurry up AquaEco! Matt

06/27/2006, 06:00 PM	#519
Kathy55g Moved On Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,249	Matt, please check your email. K

06/27/2006, 09:06 PM	#520
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Kathy, just got your email - will respond shortly - thanks. The big news, I think we had the best hatch yet on this most recent spawn. Everywhere I point the flashlight I see larvae...it's not uncommon to have 3 or 4 in the beam at any given point! MAYBE.... Tonight I'll try to do a headcount once the lights are out (a bit easier to spot the larvae in my rotifer soup!). I'm pretty pleased with the results of this hatch. It's also worth mentioning that a couple hours ago I added in the last of my freshly mixed saltwater (Dr. Foster's sent the wrong salt this time around, so I have to SEND IT BACK and then they'll ship the right salt...looks like I'm headed to the LFS tomorrow!). I also added 2 basters of the "Mandarin Mix" (50% T-Iso, 50% Tet.). To recap this somewhat successful incubation method: Incubation Vessel - 10 gallon tank, filled most of the way, with one relatively strong air feed coming from the base of the tank at a rate of several bubbles per second. Incubation Water - I've tried sterile, freshly mixed, and "used", and in the end I don't think it's made that great of a difference. Broodstock Diet - The only change that's been made in the last 1-2 weeks is that I've started added Reef Plus to the soaking regiment. Temperature - the broodstock and 10 gallon are both right around 78F steady at this time of year (during March/April the broodstock tank usually ran closer to 75-76). Collection Method - using a pipette with the end "sawed off" to make for a larger opening, I'm able to suck out most all of the eggs while collecting an extremely minimal amount of the parent's tank water. I'm also getting less "GUNK". That pretty much describes how I've done the last 3 "successful" batches. Something in there is obviously KEY to helping get better hatch rates vs. all the other 1 or 2 or 5 or 7 larvae that most of the other, earlier methods I've tried have produced. Perhaps down the line I'll try splitting up more cultures and doing more formal "experiments" to make a definite test of what works, what doesn't, what has an influence on hatching success and what doesn't. So there's maybe 3 dozen larvae or more in the 10 gallon tank along with SS rotifers and Nannochloropis, Tetraselmis and T-Iso. The NEXT thing I'm going to change on this batch is that I'm going to keep a light on 24 hours. My REASONING behind this 24 hour lighting is that while watching our lost "lone larvae" in the morning he'd be skinny and in the evening he'd be FAT. So maybe we can get better larval survival if they have SOME light to feed with at all hours of the day. I may also go back to seiving my L-Strain / Copepod cultures to get some variety of diet into the mix...that can't hurt either! I'm off to do a water test on the larval tank just to see where things are at. MP

06/27/2006, 10:46 PM	#521
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Holy Mother Mary of the Mandarin Miracles - if I wasn't seeing it I wouldn't believe it. Lights went off at 10:30 this evening (gave them all a late night snack at 10, so I left 'em on longer than normal). Turned out the last of the ambient room lights about 11:35-11:40. Unless I'm misreading the courtship and rises, we're going to have ANOTHER spawn tonight. That's pretty amazing in itself considering that the female is not that "ripe" compared to the prior spawn (so this one's going to be small). What's REALLY surprising is that Female #2, in her breeder net, is TRYING TO COURT THE MALE TOO! It's really noteworthy because normally she assumes nocturnal coloration within minutes of lights out. She's going nuts in the net, zipping up and down, fins flared, trying to get some lovin'. I hardly think she's ready for it..she's still skinny in my book. I also do not know if she's going to work out being released into the tank..since my first noting of it a little while back, female #1 has visited #2 in the net several times per day and it always looks like a hostile visit. So I think the answer to the question, "Can you keep a breeding trio of Mandarins in a 24 gallon cube", is going to be "NO", but I'm going to wait a couple more weeks at least, see how these visits progress, and postpone making any decisions until then (at the earliest). OK, so I still have that larval water test to do... MP

06/27/2006, 11:16 PM	#522
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	OK, so it's 12:15 AM on 6-28 now...a few minutes ago while answering emails I heard the splash that typically accompanies a "false spawn" or the actual spawning event. I glanced over...no eggs on the surface...went back to what I was doing. Well, after finishing up the emails I looked back in the tank and could not locate either of the mandarin pair. Female #2 has gone to sleep. The flashlight helped me find female #1. She appeared to be in nocturnal dress but not fully asleep...I haven't been able to find the male (there's a LOT of caulpera in the tank..I'm overdue for a harvest). Pumps are on for a minute and will go back off...I'll wait a little longer to see if this ended up being a failed attempt or not. MP

06/27/2006, 11:55 PM	#523
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	My official stance on tonight's activities - a failed attempt..the female didn't LOOK ready and I think the male figured that out after several no-goes...she's asleep and he...well, for a change I can't figure out where he's sleeping! Larval Water Test Results - 79.9F, SG 1.025, Salinity 33-34 PPM, pH 8.2, Alkalinity 5 meq/L, Free Ammonia 0ppm, Total Ammonia 0.5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm. The only thing I don't really like on that list is the SG/Salinity. That's about where the parental tank runs, but I think for larval development it can be lowered and may have some beneficial effects. I don't know...experienced breeders, what's your take on Salinity and Larval rearing? MP

06/28/2006, 01:09 AM	#524
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	Hey, for all of you keeping or who have kept Mandarins, I set up a poll in the Reef Fishes' Forum - trying to get an idea how long people are keeping their mandarins alive and what that captive lifespan might be (afterall, I know my mandarins can't keep up this level of breeding FOREVER...kinda curious to see how long they MIGHT stay at it). http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=874961 MP

06/28/2006, 10:05 AM	#525
FishGuttz Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC-- Posts: 173	Matt, I voted in your poll. I had a mandarin about 15 years ago. It was in a 30g reef. I didn't know about specialty feeding at the time. He died rather quickly, certainly not due to old age!!