Reef Central Online Community
Premium Aquatics

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Old 04/24/2011, 10:25 AM   #3851
Bachmfd650
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tower City, PA
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorvich View Post
Should be fine

Oh and an Anenome, possibly a bubble tip for the clowns..

but wont be till probably november till my tank is fully acclimated and things really get going


Bachmfd650 is offline  
Old 04/24/2011, 10:57 AM   #3852
boxer rox
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxer rox View Post
I've got a 29 gal.Oceanic biocube with 45 lbs. of live rock. Right now I have a Royal gramma and a Sailfin blenny. Can I add a Maroon clown or would it need more room? Thanks in advance
Im going to take your advice and pass on the Clown. What do you think about (3) Blue Green Chromis and a Firefish instead? Do you think I could get away with more than three of the Blue Green Chromis? I like the idea of then schooling up. Thanks.


boxer rox is offline  
Old 04/24/2011, 09:31 PM   #3853
jsehlms
Moved On
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 198
I was at the LFS and they had a male Hoevens Wrasse (Halichoeres melanurus). I was wondering the protocol as far as wrasses go to the number 'allowed'. If I wanted to get multiple wrasses, should I get males of the different species? Such as 1 Hoeven's, 1 McCosker's flasher, 1 Carpenter's flasher or should having a pair of male and female be better?

I'll have a 90g with 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, and foxface, 2 skunk and 2 peppermint shrimps. Eventually adding a couple compatible wrasses, flame angel, mandarin and possibly a kole or Caribbean tang.

Also, are there any issues with the Hoeven's and the shrimps? I know I may lose a few snails and hermits from the CUC, but I don't want to lose the shrimps.

Thanks.


jsehlms is offline  
Old 04/24/2011, 09:50 PM   #3854
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachmfd650 View Post
Oh and an Anenome, possibly a bubble tip for the clowns..

but wont be till probably november till my tank is fully acclimated and things really get going
You have to match clowns and anemones. You need a mature tank and proper lighting for anemones.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~

Last edited by snorvich; 04/24/2011 at 09:57 PM.
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/24/2011, 09:52 PM   #3855
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxer rox View Post
Im going to take your advice and pass on the Clown. What do you think about (3) Blue Green Chromis and a Firefish instead? Do you think I could get away with more than three of the Blue Green Chromis? I like the idea of then schooling up. Thanks.
Well, chromis don't really "school" but in a much larger tank, they may shoal. I am not a big fan of chromis because they often winnow down their number until there is only one remaining.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~

Last edited by snorvich; 04/24/2011 at 10:00 PM.
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/24/2011, 09:57 PM   #3856
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsehlms View Post
I was at the LFS and they had a male Hoevens Wrasse (Halichoeres melanurus). I was wondering the protocol as far as wrasses go to the number 'allowed'. If I wanted to get multiple wrasses, should I get males of the different species? Such as 1 Hoeven's, 1 McCosker's flasher, 1 Carpenter's flasher or should having a pair of male and female be better?

I'll have a 90g with 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, and foxface, 2 skunk and 2 peppermint shrimps. Eventually adding a couple compatible wrasses, flame angel, mandarin and possibly a kole or Caribbean tang.

Also, are there any issues with the Hoeven's and the shrimps? I know I may lose a few snails and hermits from the CUC, but I don't want to lose the shrimps.

Thanks.
I don't really trust Halichoeres with shrimp or other inverts. I personally like a harem of flasher wrasses because of their behavior among themselves. A kole or chevron tang would do well in your tank.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 08:18 AM   #3857
crobattt
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 786
I'm trying to decide what other stock options i have for my seventyfive gallon.

Currently Live:

CuC
Cleaner Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Watchman Goby
Kole Tang


I'm not sure of what else to add. It's is a peaceful fowlr that maybe transformed into a reef later this summer. All i know i want to add now is a pair of clowns, but i haven't decided on the exact type. I really don't want any more gobies or blennies, because you don't really get to see them and enjoy them at all it seems. Anyways i need some suggestions on what to add, any feedback is very appreciated. Thanks !


crobattt is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 09:16 AM   #3858
sca_tt
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: iowa
Posts: 197
in the begining stages of a 90g build. intended list
perc clowns pair
chromis orange line 5
bangaii cardinals at least 2
scotts fairy wrasse 1
gobies and blennies not sure which suggestions

plan to keep some corals mainly softies maybe lps.

would like to do a powder brown tang also??

tank is 48''lx24''hx18''d


sca_tt is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 10:37 AM   #3859
justnoob
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Post

Tank size: 122 x 35 x 45cm (LxWxH)
15-20kg live rock, 15kg sand
20 gallon sump refugium /w Protein Skimmer.

I'm currently setting up a 50 gallon reef tank and I'm thinking of having this fishes listed below:
1 Blue tang,
3 anthias,
1 wrasse,
1or2 Purple Firefish,
2 clowns
& a bicolor dottyback.


justnoob is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 12:40 PM   #3860
deneed4spd
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Tank Size: 75g 48x18x20 inches
75 lbs of rock, 15 lbs of sand
40g sump with protein skimmer (Super Reef Octopus XP2000) and fuge with Chaeto

Looking at these fishes and adding this order
2 Ocellaris Clowns
2 Engineer Goby
1 Halichoeres Melanurus Wrasse
1 Kole Tang

If tank is stable enough after a while, maybe try for 3-4 anthias (dispar, lyretail, or respendeds)


deneed4spd is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 12:41 PM   #3861
deneed4spd
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
75g Setup

double post


deneed4spd is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 12:44 PM   #3862
chagan1
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
My new saltwater wonder!

75 gallon rectangle glass aquarium
130 lbs of aragonite sand 20 lbs of live sand
plenum made with pvc pipe and 2 screens placed at bottom
75 lbs of reef saver eco dry aquarium live rock
2 Koralia evolution circulation pumps 750 and 1050
2 aquatech power filters with combined gph of 660
1 hang on thermometer


The following fish are in my tank:

1 powder brown tang
1 coral beauty angel
1 picasso triggerfish (my favorite)
2 engineer gobies that I rarely see
2 blue tail damsels and1 black striped damsel
1 mandarin gobie
1 supposedly rare black fin damsel
2 green emarld crabs
5 assorted crabs

To date I have only lost one fish-a small black white damsel

Evidently I did a good job of aquascaping. These fish have found more places to hide, sneak through and littles holes, crevices thatn I would ever have imagined.

My only problem is they stay to the back of the tank behind someof the rock formations and odn't really swim in the front areas. Although the triggerfish has started going to the top for food.

Can I add more fish. If so what would you recommend?


chagan1 is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 02:53 PM   #3863
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crobattt View Post
I'm trying to decide what other stock options i have for my seventyfive gallon.

Currently Live:

CuC
Cleaner Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
Watchman Goby
Kole Tang


I'm not sure of what else to add. It's is a peaceful fowlr that maybe transformed into a reef later this summer. All i know i want to add now is a pair of clowns, but i haven't decided on the exact type. I really don't want any more gobies or blennies, because you don't really get to see them and enjoy them at all it seems. Anyways i need some suggestions on what to add, any feedback is very appreciated. Thanks !
Well, I am not a big advocate of clownfish as I find they are fairly boring unless you get a pair that sexually matures, bonds, and mates. In that case, however, they can become very territorial. I personally love flasher wrasse harems due to their very interesting behaviors, a gramma loretto is always nice, and a dartfish is great if you add it first (they are easily intimidated)


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 02:59 PM   #3864
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sca_tt View Post
in the begining stages of a 90g build. intended list
perc clowns pair
chromis orange line 5 Will likely winnow down to one in the long run
bangaii cardinals at least 2 You can have two if they are a male and female, otherwise only one
scotts fairy wrasse 1 I strongly recommend against this highly aggressive fish; some fairy wrasses (e.g. C. rhomoidalis) are very peaceful, others are terrors
gobies and blennies not sure which suggestions

plan to keep some corals mainly softies maybe lps.

would like to do a powder brown tang also?? Reef central's recommendation for Acanthurus japonicus is 125 gallon minimum. Ctenochaetus tangs are more appropriate for your tank size

tank is 48''lx24''hx18''d
Remember, tangs are swimmers and greatly appreciate long tanks


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 03:16 PM   #3865
jsehlms
Moved On
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 198
Snorvich, do you know what the 'peak season' is for female wrasses? It appears LA and BlueZoo have very few female wrasse fish. Wondering if I'll have to wait a month or 6 before I can get a harem of wrasses.


jsehlms is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 03:59 PM   #3866
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsehlms View Post
Snorvich, do you know what the 'peak season' is for female wrasses? It appears LA and BlueZoo have very few female wrasse fish. Wondering if I'll have to wait a month or 6 before I can get a harem of wrasses.
Add six months to our calendar. So it is almost December in their winter/summer cycle. I would guess that it is coming up soon.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 04:53 PM   #3867
sca_tt
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: iowa
Posts: 197
snorvich why does fosters and smith have the scotts fairy wrasse listed as peaceful? i have read through the tang requirements just thought i would ask to make sure. ha. i like the cardinals and am going to look for a pair along with the clowns. as for the chromis i wanted a type of peaceful schooling fish. recomendations and also include a number i could keep if you would? i did read above or previously in this thread that most schooling fish dont school when kept in aquaria, correct?


sca_tt is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 06:48 PM   #3868
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by sca_tt View Post
snorvich why does fosters and smith have the scotts fairy wrasse listed as peaceful?

I cannot really speak for Dr. Foster and Smith, but they are my favorite online vendor. I can assure you, however, that C. scottorum is a very aggressive fish, more so the female even than the male

i have read through the tang requirements just thought i would ask to make sure. ha. i like the cardinals and am going to look for a pair along with the clowns. as for the chromis i wanted a type of peaceful schooling fish. recomendations and also include a number i could keep if you would? i did read above or previously in this thread that most schooling fish dont school when kept in aquaria, correct?

I only know of two fish commonly kept in our sized aquaria that shoal/school. By the way "schooling" is a subset of shoaling, and those two species are glassy sweepers which actually will school, and Apogon parvulus which will shoal and appear to school even though they are not. Apogon parvulus is a difficult fish to acclimate properly although I have a group of ten in one of my aquaria. There may be other fish that will shoal; I know many people think that some cardinals will shoal, but it turns out without a dither fish, they pair off.



__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/25/2011, 07:33 PM   #3869
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Since this issue comes up so frequently on Reef Central, some additional information might be useful. An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.

If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behavior such as swimming, so as to remain close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.

If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organized, with the fish synchronizing their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated maneuvers, as though the schools as a whole have minds of their own.

Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.[1] The intricacies of schooling are far from fully understood, especially the swimming and feeding energetics. Many hypotheses to explain the function of schooling have been suggested, such as better orientation, synchronized hunting, predator confusion and reduced risk of being found. Schooling also has disadvantages, such as excretion buildup in the breathing media and oxygen and food depletion. The way the fish array in the school probably gives energy saving advantages, though this is controversial.

Fish can be obligate or facultative shoalers. Obligate shoalers, such as tunas, herrings and anchovy, spend all of their time shoaling or schooling, and become agitated if separated from the group. Facultative shoalers, such as Atlantic cod, saiths and some carangids, shoal only some of the time, perhaps for reproductive purposes.

Shoaling fish can shift into a disciplined and coordinated school, then shift back to an amorphous shoal within seconds. Such shifts are triggered by changes of activity from feeding, resting, traveling or avoiding predators.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 09:59 AM   #3870
TheBends
Registered Member
 
TheBends's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 99
70 Gallon Display (36" W x 18" D x 25" T)
29 Gallon Sump
6 T5s (3 x Actinics, 3 x 10k)
30 Pounds of Live Rock
50 Pounds of Base Rock
Lot's of Zoanthids
Small Frogspawn
Small Xenia

Current Stock List:
2 Oscellaris Clowns

Desired Stock List:
2 Maroon or Clarkii Clowns
Sailfin Blenny
2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaners
Diamond Watchman Goby
Wheeler's Shrimp Goby
Red Banded Snapping Shrimp
Carpet Anemone (S. Haddoni)

I feel like this list is severely lacking in WOW factor however I am running out of tank space. Other options that I am looking at (I know I can't do all of these, probably just one):

Dwarf Flame Angel
Coral Beauty Angel
Foxface Lo
Emerald Crab (s)
Porcelain Anemone Crab(s)

I am open to suggestions. Thanks!


TheBends is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 10:41 AM   #3871
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBends View Post
70 Gallon Display (36" W x 18" D x 25" T)
29 Gallon Sump
6 T5s (3 x Actinics, 3 x 10k)
30 Pounds of Live Rock
50 Pounds of Base Rock
Lot's of Zoanthids
Small Frogspawn
Small Xenia If you do this, isolate it from spreading or it will take over your tank

Current Stock List:
2 Oscellaris Clowns

Desired Stock List:
2 Maroon or Clarkii Clowns You have two clowns, you cannot add more without killing two and Maroon clowns are hyper aggressive
Sailfin Blenny
2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaners
Diamond Watchman Goby
Wheeler's Shrimp Goby
Red Banded Snapping Shrimp
Carpet Anemone (S. Haddoni) Eats fish, and your tank is too small unless you are trying for a species tank with a mated pairs of clowns and not much else

I feel like this list is severely lacking in WOW factor however I am running out of tank space. Other options that I am looking at (I know I can't do all of these, probably just one):

Dwarf Flame Angel Assuming no carpet anemone, you could have a flame or coral beauty but I think the coral beauty is more aggressive and may not tolerate the flame
Coral Beauty Angel
Foxface Lo
Emerald Crab (s)
Porcelain Anemone Crab(s)

I am open to suggestions. Thanks!



__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 11:06 AM   #3872
TheBends
Registered Member
 
TheBends's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mankato, MN
Posts: 99
Understand the Xenia spreading.

Wasn't planning on "adding" the Maroons, was planning on replacing the Oscellaris however if the Carpet is too large for the tank - would keeping the Oscellaris and getting a BTA or LTA be a better option? I think H. Magnifica are the natural host for Oscellaris however they get HUGE - any other options for Oscellaris?

I know I can't have the Flame and the Coral Beauty, I actually much prefer the look of the Dwarf Flame Angel.

Updated Stock List:
2 Oscellaris Clowns
BTA, LTA, or Magnifica
Sailfin Blenny
2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaners
Diamond Watchman Goby
Wheeler's Shrimp Goby
Red Banded Snapping Shrimp
Dwarf Flame Angel
2 Porcelain Crabs

Considering my tank size and water volume, am I reaching my stocking limit or do you think that I still have some space? Any thoughts on the Foxface or is that pushing it too far? On another note, I would like a fish that responds positively to being cleaned by the Skunk Cleaner shrimp - as of right now, the clowns shy away from them. If you can't tell from my stocking list, I am very interested in pairing and symbiotic relationships in the tank.


TheBends is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 01:54 PM   #3873
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBends View Post
Understand the Xenia spreading.

Wasn't planning on "adding" the Maroons, was planning on replacing the Oscellaris however if the Carpet is too large for the tank - would keeping the Oscellaris and getting a BTA or LTA be a better option? I think H. Magnifica are the natural host for Oscellaris however they get HUGE - any other options for Oscellaris?

If you are serious about clownfish, I suggest getting Joyce Wilkerson's book "Clownfish" which gives a wealth of information. I am just reluctant to ever recommend carpet anemones except in a clownfish species only tank (beautiful and fascinating) because they eat fish.

I know I can't have the Flame and the Coral Beauty, I actually much prefer the look of the Dwarf Flame Angel.

Flames come in different colorations, see if you can get a Marshal Island or Hawaiian.

Updated Stock List:
2 Oscellaris Clowns
BTA, LTA, or Magnifica
Sailfin Blenny
2 Scarlet Skunk Cleaners
Diamond Watchman Goby
Wheeler's Shrimp Goby
Red Banded Snapping Shrimp
Dwarf Flame Angel
2 Porcelain Crabs

Considering my tank size and water volume, am I reaching my stocking limit or do you think that I still have some space?

If you go with smallish fish, you have additiona biocapacity once the tank is established.

Any thoughts on the Foxface or is that pushing it too far?

A larger algae grazing fish that is not totally reef safe. If you must, you must, but I would not

On another note, I would like a fish that responds positively to being cleaned by the Skunk Cleaner shrimp - as of right now, the clowns shy away from them.

Clownfish will never allow themselves to be "cleaned"; if you use some of your biocapacity for anthias, most love being cleaned.

If you can't tell from my stocking list, I am very interested in pairing and symbiotic relationships in the tank.
Relationships on the Reef

Looking for relationships on the reef starts with knowing the habitat of marine animals, knowing what they eat, and knowing about relationships that occur with other animals. In grade school biology, you may have heard of the term “symbiosis,” referring to a give-and-take relationship between two organisms. But, in fact, symbiosis refers to any number of different kinds of partnerships – some are mutually beneficial and some are not. Partnerships in which the host is harmed are termed “parasitic” and include diseases as well as mere symbiont exploitation until the host dies such as an isopod on a Squirrelfish or cryptocaryon irritans found commonly on aquarium fish. Nevertheless, in the tropical marine world, almost every creature lives in symbiosis with another in some way. It’s simply an easier way to live given the scarcity of resources and the competition for them.

A symbiotic relationship can take on many forms, which are classified depending on how the creatures share their living space or use each other. Understanding what sorts of relationships may exist in the natural world between species will help you to better understand where to find photographic subjects and how to photograph them. The specialized defenses of certain species are often used by those that have little or none of their own, and is called inquilinism. A defenseless little reef fish such as the Bangaii cardinal would want to take advantage of the natural protection provided by a sea-urchin neighbor’s razor-sharp, and sometimes venomous, spines. Clownfish, having covered themselves in mucus that makes them invisible to their host anemone are able to dance among the battery of the anemone’s stinging cells without harm; other fish have adapted to a drifting life in the jellyfish’s armory of stinging cells or swim close to the nearly invincible barracuda or shark. Some animals like the Carrier Crab, are highly creative in locating their defenses. The urchin being carried by this crab would much prefer a solitary existence.

Some creatures use others as camouflage. Decorator crabs snip pieces off of sponges and other nearby organisms and embed them into their shells, sometimes even carving the sponge into a cap that neatly fits on their carapace. Other crabs plant sea anemones onto their shells devising a built-in self-maintaining shield of stinging cells – or hold one in each claw, and like the boxer crab, and attempt to punch the offender with its borrowed battery. Scientists believe inquilinistic relationships merely evolved from creatures living in close proximity with one another.

Endoecism refers to animals that live in the shelters created by their host, most typically burrows. Proximity is also a likely reason for such a relationship to grow over the millennia, combined with a frequent hunt for shelter by what eventually becomes the symbiont. The arrow goby is commonly found in the burrows of various invertebrates, favoring crab holes. The symbiont usually benefits the most in this relationship; however having a little visitor has its advantages. Should the goby find a chunk of food too large for it to handle, it will give it to the crab. The crab chops it up as it devours its free snack, allowing the goby to take a few shredded pieces back. Sometimes the live-in symbionts feed on the hosts’ waste products, earning their space as housekeepers. In the goby and blind shrimp relationship, the goby is unable to dig a burrow and the blind shrimp is unable to see potential predators.

The two most obvious symbiotic relationships involve food associations (commensalism) and associations in which both host and symbiont benefit (mutualism). These two are very close, but in commensalism, the issue is only food and it’s usually only the symbiont that benefits directly. Many shrimp, crabs and copepods, for example, live on the surface of corals and other cnidarians, eating their mucus coating, dead skin or any adhering organic particles. The crustaceans usually cause no harm to their coral hosts – and may even pluck off an occasional parasite.

Mutualism is the most well-known type of symbiosis, and is marked by an interdependence of host and symbiont. In most mutualistic relationships, one could not survive without the other, which makes these sorts of relationships among the most fascinating. Hermatypic (reef-building) corals and their algal symbionts, zooxanthellae, are a common example of such crucial interdependence. The zooxanthellae live inside the coral’s tissue, taking advantage of its waste products and transforming them into substances the coral can use to grow and maintain its calcium carbonate home. During times of high stress, such as prolonged high temperatures, the coral will eject zooxanthellae into the water column. Although the coral can live with a small amount of algal symbionts over short periods of time, a long absence of their usual population of symbionts spells certain death.

Cleaning symbiosis is similar, but the symbionts don’t live within their hosts’ tissues. A large fish will literally pull into a “cleaning station,” which is nothing more than an area where cleaner shrimp and fish live. Like Indy 500 pit mechanics, the cleaners scramble from their crevasses and overhangs, picking off parasites (although not cryptocaryon irritans), algae, and detritus for the fish, while scoring an easy meal. Often times the fish signals it willingness to be cleaned by its sidewise positioning.

Many reef species are relegated to settling on a surface before adulthood, where they remain and live out their life. But these “sessile” organisms can sometimes become mobile should they settle down on the right spot. When one animal uses another for transportation, the symbiotic relationship is called phoresis. Barnacles, for example, may settle on a crab carapace, snail shell, or on the back of a whale. The remainder of this article is about this type of relationship, a relationship I shall call the “hitchhiker relationship”. Perhaps the phoretic relationship most commonly thought of by divers is the remora.

Coleman shrimp are normally found in pairs on the toxic sea urchin, Asthenosoma varium, also called a fire urchin, with the female being the larger of the two. Coleman shrimp move amongst the poisonous spines and pedicellaria without incurring harm but they usually clear an area of these obstructions where they perch. They make beautiful photographic subjects and are easy to photograph as they have every confidence that they are secure on their poisonous perch and do not move about as other shrimp often do. The Urchin Crab is another guest of the fire urchin often occurring on the same animal as the Coleman Shrimp. Whereas the Coleman Shrimp only lives on the fire urchin, Urchin crabs live in association with a variety of urchins. The last segment of its leg forms a hook to hold onto the spines of the sea urchin. It can be found singly or in pairs.

Often found on the sea cucumber Actinopyga, the swimmer crab is commensally associated, receiving transportation and protection. It is often found with the Emperor Shrimp discussed below. While the swimmer crab benefits from the relationship, the sea cucumber does not.

Emperor shrimp hitch rides on various partners; I have seen them on sea cucumbers of various species and nudibranchs of various species including Risbecia tryoni, Ceratosoma trilobatum, and Spanish Dancers. Their coloration varies according to the “transportation partner” they ride on, but I am uncertain if they are able to change coloration if they happen to change transportation. Not content merely to relax and enjoy the ride, they are constantly on the move, normally perched near the substrate looking for food to pass by; I guess this is the marine version of “meals on wheels”?

In addition to providing the potential for sustenance, the noxious reputation of nudibranchs also provides some degree of protection since predators are reluctant to ingest them. But the relationship is really bi-directional as the shrimp keeps the nudibranch free from parasites.

This information is from an article I wrote a while ago which included illustrative pictures that were not included with this on reef central. If you are going to use this for a school paper, best to rewrite a bit as the original article is copyrighted.



__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 02:51 PM   #3874
ruvtfan
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bloomsburg, PA
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorvich View Post
Since this issue comes up so frequently on Reef Central, some additional information might be useful. An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.

If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behavior such as swimming, so as to remain close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.

If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organized, with the fish synchronizing their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated maneuvers, as though the schools as a whole have minds of their own.

Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.[1] The intricacies of schooling are far from fully understood, especially the swimming and feeding energetics. Many hypotheses to explain the function of schooling have been suggested, such as better orientation, synchronized hunting, predator confusion and reduced risk of being found. Schooling also has disadvantages, such as excretion buildup in the breathing media and oxygen and food depletion. The way the fish array in the school probably gives energy saving advantages, though this is controversial.

Fish can be obligate or facultative shoalers. Obligate shoalers, such as tunas, herrings and anchovy, spend all of their time shoaling or schooling, and become agitated if separated from the group. Facultative shoalers, such as Atlantic cod, saiths and some carangids, shoal only some of the time, perhaps for reproductive purposes.

Shoaling fish can shift into a disciplined and coordinated school, then shift back to an amorphous shoal within seconds. Such shifts are triggered by changes of activity from feeding, resting, traveling or avoiding predators.
Thanks for the information. Never really thought about it but I have a foxface and fairy wrasse shoaling. The two are the closest in size (for now) in the tank and I always see them swimming loosely together. Just assumed it was because they were chasing the same food. Who knew they were really buddies.


ruvtfan is offline  
Old 04/26/2011, 03:44 PM   #3875
snorvich
Team RC member
 
snorvich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Outlander
Posts: 40,953
Blog Entries: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruvtfan View Post
Thanks for the information. Never really thought about it but I have a foxface and fairy wrasse shoaling. The two are the closest in size (for now) in the tank and I always see them swimming loosely together. Just assumed it was because they were chasing the same food. Who knew they were really buddies.
Actually, they are not really shoaling nor are they buddies. And, by the way, this is not really a discussion thread.


__________________
Warmest regards,
~Steve~
snorvich is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
marine fish, reef fish

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:53 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.